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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

VOTE: FIXED KEEL OR SWING KEEL???

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ftworthsailor
Captain

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USA
279 Posts

Initially Posted - 04/30/2013 : 20:03:15

I am now the proud owner of TWO Catalina 25 Sailboats. I traded my C-22 in for the white one tonight. 1977 SK,PT, SR. NOW, I have another dilemma. The white boat is a swing keel pop top model and the blue one is NO Pop Top Fixed Keel model. The inside of the blue one has NO SINK, NO STOVE, but has this really cool Air Conditioner in the back under the Cockpit. The White one has GREAT BLUE cushions, has a complete galley and looks pretty good inside. Blue one has had all the deck teak including the hatch boards removed and are lost. The white one has all the deck teak installed however all the deck hardware, including the mast plate, lifeline stanchions, pulpit and misc deck hardware removed...... VOTE FOR THE BOAT YOU THINK I SHOULD CONCENTRATE ON FIRST...... BLUE OR WHITE???

Catalina 25, Hull #779, Built 1978, FK/SR "Miss Natalie"

Catalina 25, Hull #971, Built 1979, SK/SR,"Sea Legs"

"if we get lost, we'll just pull in somewhere and ask directions."

Edited by - ftworthsailor on 05/02/2013 12:53:04

tommymalone
Deckhand

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2 Posts

Response Posted - 04/30/2013 : 22:41:15

hi roy, did you really get another 25? WOW! The fleet expands yet again! Can't wait to see it.fill me in, Tommy Malone.

Edited by - on

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3476 Posts

Response Posted - 05/01/2013 : 03:46:19

In Texas.. I'd hafta say Blue. for the air. Portable Butane stove.

Edited by - on

hubbardbilly
1st Mate

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USA
44 Posts

Response Posted - 05/01/2013 : 03:58:20

I go with white because it would be the boat that my wife and kids would enjoy the most (amenities, nice cushions, pull in closer to shore with the swing keel, pop top makes life more relaxing at anchor). I had a C-22 the past 2 years with SK/Pop Top and now my C-25 has the same.

Edited by - on

Ape-X
Admiral

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USA
662 Posts

Response Posted - 05/01/2013 : 04:00:31

I am partial to the fin keel, and sought one out. Which keel configuration fits your needs best? Which hull seems to be structurally superior? That is the one I would concentrate on, and it is easy to move parts from the other boat to create one. Then SAIL SAIL SAIL on the 1st and work on the 2nd.

Edited by - on

Capri-25 Editor
1st Mate

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USA
35 Posts

Response Posted - 05/01/2013 : 04:29:49

Fin KEEL, fixed for sailing characteristics. Swing for launching easy. Depends on how often you launch really.
I love the blue though.

Edited by - on

JohnP
Master Marine Consultant

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1520 Posts

Response Posted - 05/01/2013 : 06:00:16

First, your decision would best be made based on the condition of the structure and fixed equipment of each boat!

Second consideration, as Ray said, is how often do you sail in the hot Ft. Worth summer and need A/C? But for the rest of the year, it's important how tall you are and need the extra headroom with the pop-top?

Thirdly, it's probably easy to shift each piece of moveable equipment to the chosen boat, like the cushions, but not the keel or the pop-top.

It's pretty funny to have this kind of problem!

Happy sailing!

Edited by - on

PCP777
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1225 Posts

Response Posted - 05/01/2013 : 06:17:40

Yeah whichever one is more put together. Is the down below on the blue on gutted? No stove is no big deal, that's where I secure the mothership cooler. No sink though?

I didn't even use my AC last year.

Edited by - on

CarbonSink62
Navigator

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USA
208 Posts

Response Posted - 05/01/2013 : 06:44:07

I'm on Team Blue. I just don't like the pop-top.

I've been recording every 'hard top' I come across; every one has the fixed keel.

I call it the Coastal Cruiser model.

Catalina 25 Hardtops
0381 – 1978 SR/FK
0779 – 1978 SR/FK
1390 – 1979 TR/FK
1818 – 1982 SR/FK
2092 – ???? TR/FK
4593 – 1984 SR/FK
4695 – 1984 SR/FK

Edited by - on

keithsinger
1st Mate

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USA
29 Posts

Response Posted - 05/01/2013 : 07:11:09

On the issue fixed versus swing keel, I must admit the swing keel in my first Catalina 25 saved me from nasty groundings when I was first learning to cruise sailboats. My first ever solo coastal cruise was from San Carlos to Guaymas, a one day sail that I made into a several day adventure. Spending the night anchored off the city of Guaymas is truly like being in an exotic port thousands of miles away. Coming into the outer harbor in Guaymas, the sailboat stopped unexpectedly. I looked at the map and sure enough I had sailed into shallow. It was shallow all around me. I cranked up the keel and turned around and motored away. Later on that trip I sailed onto some shallow rocks along the coast near San Carlos and the retractable keel made it possible to get free, with kind assistance of some kids who were playing on the beach. For those new to keelboats, definitely the swing keel, irrespective of its issues. Those new to cruising who are introducing wives and children to the sport should definitely consider the swing keel. After some cruising under my belt, there was no question my second Catalina 25 would be a wing keel. With a careful eye on the chart and the depth sounder, the wing goes safely from gunkholing to coastal ocean passage making. I do not miss maintaining that swing keel. The look on the P.O's face when I told him I was taking his tall rig swing keel to the Baja. At that time I had no clue what he was talking about. Now I do. That being said, for our upcoming trip to Lake Powell, a swing keel and kick-up rudder would be ideal to bring the sailboat up to the beach and into little shallow protected coves.

Edited by - keithsinger on 05/01/2013 07:17:22

ftworthsailor
Captain

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USA
279 Posts

Response Posted - 05/01/2013 : 07:55:40

All, thanks for the feedback and opinions.

Yes, Tommy! Bill offered to go with me to look at the boat, motor, and trailer and gave me a thumbs up on getting it. We brought it to the boat club last night. (The trailer is EXCELLENT!!

I am partial to the blue 25 however with the lake being so low, I would hate to get hung up on a sandbar or worse, a rock pile. I have stung the bottom quite a few times with my C-22 swing keel so am concerned about a fixed keel boat on this lake.

The blue boat needs the teak replaced on the deck and replacement gangway panels. While I have all the parts to replace the stove (from the swap meet, here) and the sink, its just going to take some time to complete.

As for trailering, once I put either boat in the water, the trailer will be left in the storage area until I need to pull it out to redo the bottom. I would not be inclined to take the fixed keel boat out to other lakes. The swing keel on the trailer would be perfect for that application.

One of my wish list items is to take the boat to Galveston and sail the gulf. The swing keel would trailer today, while the fixed keel...... well, lets just say that I need to find another trailer for THAT application.

I intend to swap the cusions between both boats because the BLUE cushions from the white boat will look so much better in the blue boat!

Everyone has been telling me that the fixed keel boat will sail faster than the swing keel. I also know that the fixed keel will require much less maintenance - no moving parts.

The blue boat just needs one more coat of bottom paint and me to mount the OB engine mount on the back of the transom, then the OB motor and I think the rest can be done while the boat is in the water.

I am building a GIN POLE to raise and lower the mast single handedly so THAT can be done whenever I feel the need. The GREAT news is NOW I have a REAL set of Catalina 25 Sails for either boat. Mainsail, 110 Jib, 150 Genoa, and a spinnaker ! ! ! This is AWESOME ! ! !

R

Edited by - on

ftworthsailor
Captain

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USA
279 Posts

Response Posted - 05/01/2013 : 12:26:06

Today at lunchtime, I went down to the marina to view my Catalina 25 yacht fleet!. (typed with that Thirston Howell the Third snooty aire about me.....)

I noticed something interesting. The difference between the waterline to the bottom of the folded keel on the white boat and the full keel boat was about 14 inches. That means when the swing keel is in the water with the keel down, the difference between them is only 12 inches -

"draft for the swing keel version is 2’ 8” board up and 5’ 0” board down and the fixed keel draft is 4’ 0"
(source http://www.sailingmates.com/catalina25.htm )

For those of you with Swing Keel boats, do you keep the keel in the down position while at the slip(marina)?

Edited by - ftworthsailor on 05/02/2013 06:26:14

Sloop Smitten
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1181 Posts

Response Posted - 05/01/2013 : 13:57:15

Well I am extremely prejudiced but I would make the decision on where you will be keeping the boat and the area you are sailing. My SR/FK hardtop is in a slip in a harbor on the Pacific Ocean. If I was in a lake in Texas I would never have bought the boat. The swinger would be my preference under those conditions. The air conditioner in the hot Texas sun will be nice but if I was spending that much time indoors I would want the poptop. A conundrum for sure!

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4304 Posts

Response Posted - 05/01/2013 : 16:54:56

Reading your first post I think it sounds like you're really leaning towards the blue boat.

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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9080 Posts

Response Posted - 05/01/2013 : 18:03:43

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by ftworthsailor
 ...Everyone has been telling me that the fixed keel boat will sail faster than the swing keel...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I don't think that's been proven. It might even be the other way around--the swing keel is a foot deeper for windward lift, and is 400# lighter. The sailing differences between all three keels are minimal, except for a slight pointing disadvantage with the wing.

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sailboat
Navigator

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USA
149 Posts

Response Posted - 05/01/2013 : 20:13:31

Would the blue hull be susceptible fading in the Texas heat and sun? Wouldn't the blue hull also be hotter in the sun?

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 05/02/2013 : 04:52:35

A lot depends on the sailing venue and if trailering is required. I've had a swing keel boat with a trailer and now I have a fixed keeler on a cradle. The fixed keel boat works out better for me in so many ways over the swinger that I wouldn't even consider going back.

Edited by - on

ftworthsailor
Captain

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USA
279 Posts

Response Posted - 05/02/2013 : 06:28:29

More pictures of the WHITE SK boat and trailer....

https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos?tab=wq#photos/108191037692197842202/albums/5872707074292098321

Edited by - on

PCP777
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1225 Posts

Response Posted - 05/02/2013 : 06:36:21

Which one are you bringing to the C-25 regatta?

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ftworthsailor
Captain

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USA
279 Posts

Response Posted - 05/02/2013 : 07:04:33

You said,"Which one are you bringing to the C-25 regatta?"

Answer: "YOURS ! ! ! "

Edited by - ftworthsailor on 05/02/2013 07:04:55

PCP777
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1225 Posts

Response Posted - 05/02/2013 : 12:56:42

Edited by - on

sethp001
Mainsheet C-25 Tech Editor

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814 Posts

Response Posted - 05/02/2013 : 16:08:46

After having a pop top swing keel on an inland lake in Virginia for two seasons, I do not think I would want a hard top fin keel unless I was going out in the ocean or on a BIG lake with big boy waves. But then I'd also wish for an inboard engine in that case.

Pop top head room is great. Extra air flow is great.

Lifting the keel when I get stuck on some unmarked shallow is great.

I always leave the keel down in the slip because I want all of the weight supported by the pivot pin and hanger hardware. It is more stout than the lifting hardware. I also do not risk the lifting hardware breaking and my keel damaging the hull when it swings down uncontrolled. We did have a big drought last season and our lake water level went down 6 feet. At that time, I did leave the boat in the slip with the keel up until the water level went back up.

Those navy top sides are pretty.

Edited by - on

Sam001
Vice Commodore

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USA
441 Posts

Response Posted - 05/03/2013 : 17:59:17

white

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