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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Keel is worse than I anticipated

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JRamosOfTheChesapeake
Deckhand

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USA
1 Posts

Initially Posted - 05/05/2013 : 17:01:00

I am a new C25 owner and while prepping to get her in the water I found a disturbing problem on the starboard side:

I knew she had a previous repair as that was leaking. I could see the rust lines running down from that spot. What I wasn't expecting was the extent of the previous repair. Aside from that clump of what I think is epoxy there is a large indentation around it from the iron that has rusted away.

Questions are:
How bad is this?
How would you repair this?

78 Catalina 25 FK-SR

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 05/05/2013 : 17:37:27

It appears the boat is resting on the keel and supported by boat stands. That means most of the weight of the boat is on the damaged keel. I'd be very, very, careful while exploring that keel. If your exploration were to become to extensive, the structure of the keel could be compromised and collapse, dropping the boat. The boat stands are not meant to hold the boat up . They're just there to provide balance while the weight of the boat is supported by the keel. Securing the boat from falling would be my first priority. Then, you can explore the level of damage and find the answers to your questions.

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 05/05/2013 : 18:33:58

On a previous 1981 swing keel, I ground the entire keel down to bare metal. I discovered an area that looks very similar to what you show above. I concluded it was the opening in the mold where they poured in the molten metal. I simply filled in the area with Marine Tex . . . never gave it another thought - until now.

Edited by - OJ on 05/05/2013 18:39:45

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 05/05/2013 : 19:16:42

It's hard to be sure from the photos, but I believe it looks worse than it is. The keel of that vintage was a solid chunk of cast iron. Because it was a crude casting, it had to be covered with a fairing compound to smooth it. It looks like alot of the fairing compound has peeled off it, and the previous owner repaired it, and it is coming off again. That happened to my 1981 boat, but not that widespread, and I repaired it repeatedly. I only removed the material that was loose. Wherever I encountered bare metal, I wire brushed it and coated it with anti-rust paint. Then I faired it with Marine Tex, or it's equivalent. Then coated it with barrier paint, and then antifouling paint. Finally, but very important, I attached a zinc to the keel to prevent recurrences. After attaching the zinc, I never had to repair the keel again.

The PO might have used Bondo to repair it instead of Marine Tex or some other suitable material.

I race on the Patapsco River in that vicinity every Wednesday evening, and could stop by briefly before the race for a closer look at it if you'd like.

Edited by - Steve Milby on 05/05/2013 19:38:37

sethp001
Mainsheet C-25 Tech Editor

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814 Posts

Response Posted - 05/05/2013 : 19:43:23

Like OJ and Steven, I had the same on my keel. I sanded it down to bare metal, sprayed on Rustoleum, faired it with Marine Tex, and painted it.

Someone at Catalina told me the keel casting was typically terrible. He imagined the keels were made by a couple of guys melting down old engine blocks on a beach in Mexico.

My keel has M E X cast into the side. But I faired out the letters.

Edited by - on

sethp001
Mainsheet C-25 Tech Editor

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814 Posts

Response Posted - 05/05/2013 : 19:44:43

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by John Russell
 It appears the boat is resting on the keel and supported by boat stands. That means most of the weight of the boat is on the damaged keel. I'd be very, very, careful while exploring that keel. If your exploration were to become to extensive, the structure of the keel could be compromised and collapse, dropping the boat. The boat stands are not meant to hold the boat up . They're just there to provide balance while the weight of the boat is supported by the keel. Securing the boat from falling would be my first priority. Then, you can explore the level of damage and find the answers to your questions.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Don't let my advice cause you to not take this advice from John.

Edited by - on

Tomas Kruska
Admiral

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Czech Republic
522 Posts

Response Posted - 05/06/2013 : 07:17:06

I believe that its not a problem. Its all cast iron and far way bellow the keel to hull joint.
Just fill it with thickened epoxy and fair it.
Good luck.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 05/06/2013 : 07:26:18

I agree that it looks worse than it probably is. I would probably dig out as much loose material as possible, apply a "rust reformer" in and around the area, fill it with Marine Tex and smooth it out, and then expect to do it again in another five years or so.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 05/06/2013 07:29:59

ftworthsailor
Captain

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USA
279 Posts

Response Posted - 05/06/2013 : 07:52:52

"Finally, but very important, I attached a zinc to the keel to prevent recurrences."

THATS WHAT I FORGOT TO DO!! I was in such a rush to get my boat back in the water, I forgot to install a zinc!! My BAD ! ! !

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 05/06/2013 : 08:18:06

quote:
Originally posted by John Russell

It appears the boat is resting on the keel and supported by boat stands. That means most of the weight of the boat is on the damaged keel. I'd be very, very, careful while exploring that keel. If your exploration were to become to extensive, the structure of the keel could be compromised and collapse, dropping the boat. The boat stands are not meant to hold the boat up . They're just there to provide balance while the weight of the boat is supported by the keel. Securing the boat from falling would be my first priority. Then, you can explore the level of damage and find the answers to your questions.

Swing keels do not carry the weight of the boat on the trailer. The trailer directly supports part of the weight of the keel and the rest hangs from hull. The uprights on a S/K are/should be designed to accommodate the full hull load of the the boat and a portion of the keel weight, Always good to be cautious around boats that are out of the water. One other thing: the shape of that keel doesn't look anything like mine.

Edited by - Dave5041 on 05/06/2013 08:33:55

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 05/06/2013 : 09:59:44

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Dave5041
 . . . One other thing: the shape of that keel doesn't look anything like mine . . .
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">That's probably because the above is a fin keel Dave! LOL It took me a while to figure out exactly what I was looking at also.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 05/06/2013 : 13:48:43

I wouldn't worry if you are missing a pound or so of metal from the nearly one ton keel. You could probably put a hole in your keel big enough for a bowling ball to pass through and it would still support the weight of the boat. Look around any boatyard and you'll find many a large boat resting on a couple of 10-15lb keel stand. What's more robust, the solid iron keel or the pieces of wood the whole boat is resting upon?

I'm with Dave, Tomas, and some others...clean and patch it up, then go sailing.

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 05/06/2013 : 19:59:36

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by sethp001
 
Don't let my advice cause you to not take this advice from John.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Those C250 guys don't know anything about a C25

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 05/06/2013 : 20:29:31

A zinc anode is a good idea. I didn't have to worry about this stuff--my keel was lead.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 05/06/2013 20:29:56

bigelowp
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1776 Posts

Response Posted - 05/08/2013 : 19:43:43

My fin keel looked almost as bad. As it turned out, using some patience and common sense it really turned out to not be at issue. If you fare(sp) appropriately, clean, prime and then maintain you will find the keel stronger than either you think or it looks.

For six years mine looked terrible but was fine. Last year I splurged to have the bottom fared and barrier costed and now it looks and is fine. If you are going to worry, the only area that deserves the attention is the keel bolt area, and even that is fixable. These are solid boats!

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 05/09/2013 : 15:50:02

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by OJ
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by sethp001
 
Don't let my advice cause you to not take this advice from John.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Those C250 guys don't know anything about a C25

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Naw, we just know the difference between fin and a swinger and between boat stands and a trailer.

Edited by - on

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