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Lots of Marine Tex

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sethp001
Mainsheet C-25 Tech Editor

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814 Posts

Initially Posted - 05/02/2013 : 16:14:29

According to the manufacturer, Marine Tex is stronger and stiffer than fiberglass. Should I be concerned about using it to fill in a large area? If the fiberglass and Marine Tex are too dissimilar, and the Marine Tex won't flex with the rest of the boat, am I likely to get cracking around the border of the Marine Tex area, or is the Marine Tex bonding so strong that it should be okay?

Seth
"Outlier" 1987 Catalina 25 SR/SK/Traditional Interior #5541
"Zoo" 1977 Morgan Out Island 30
"Nomad" 1980 Prindle 16
"Lost" 1988 Catalina Capri 14.2 (sold - yay!)
"Marine Tex 1" Unknown Origin POS 8' Fiberglass Dinghy
https://whichsailboat.com/2014/07/27/catalina-25-review/

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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4382 Posts

Response Posted - 05/02/2013 : 19:06:26

Your thinking is on track. If the area is subject to flexing (especially a large area) I would not use Marine Tex.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 05/02/2013 : 19:11:02

It's "strong" in some respects, but also stiff and brittle (compared to fiberglass). It is essentially heavily-thickened epoxy, devoid of the resiliency of multiple resin-infused, laminated layers of fiberglass.

How big is the area, and is it a hole, a gouge, a dent, or what?

Edited by - on

sethp001
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Response Posted - 05/02/2013 : 20:12:28

Its the area under the mast. Not much larger than the mast step itself.

Wood beneath must be rotten, fiberglass under step is compressing under weight of the mast. Mast looks like its sinking into the deck.

So I have to cut out a square, and then rebuild that area. I could put in a new wood core piece, then glass over it, but I don't have any experience working with fiberglass yet. And I have lots of experience with Marine Tex. Its a visible area, so I'm concerned about how it will look when I'm done. And I'm not in a position to hire someone to do it for me.

Edited by - on

redeye
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Response Posted - 05/03/2013 : 04:33:50

Mine has done the same. I've put on a new mast plate which has a bigger foot than the last and filled the area with polysulfide ( boat life ). An attempt to stop leaking but, no not an actual repair. Something seems to keep getting in my way of actual repairs..... ( notice a pattern here anyone..)

If you have not worked with "fiberglass" ( resin ) then I would be tempted to tell you to use West Systems G-flex and then a white gelcoat over that, primarily because gflex mixes 50/50.

I steer away from Marine Tex because it is hard to sand, but it has it's place. Sometimes hard is what you want, and this might be the place for it, but I'm not liking the thought of the flexing that probably goes on there.

If you mix some resins with hardeners getting the ratio correct is problematic. ( batch size, temp, and the hardner is difficult to measure ) and they can kick quick. Too much hardner and the resin is not flexible and it will crack away from the repair.

Anyhoo... if I was about to try to Fix the Sinking mast step I would be a little worried about cutting/digging anything out might make it even more prone to difficulties. I never looked at mine very hard, but I'm thinking next time I remove the plate, and cut out the polysulfide I will plug the bottom of the bolt holes, try to fill the area with gflex and sand/cut it down, add some gelcoat over that and redrill the bolt holes. The gflex will probably flow into the gap in the liner so I'll probably hafta add it a few times. I'm guessing the more resin I get to flow into the area the better, as long as it doesn't end up in the floor.

The times I used the gflex was in small batches and the first few time is became thicker in about 30 minutes, and one time it took about an hour and a half. Kicking ( completely hardening ) soon after that.

I am not a "fiberglass" repair man but I have used it over the years. My opinion and advice is worth what you paid for it. But... I am sharing. My standing rigging turnbuckles are at their ends so I can't build it up too far, or at all.....

Edited by - redeye on 05/03/2013 04:47:40

OJ
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Response Posted - 05/03/2013 : 16:26:50

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Stinkpotter
 . . . It is essentially heavily-thickened epoxy, devoid of the resiliency of multiple resin-infused, laminated layers of fiberglass.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Jeez, I'm going to start referring to you as Herr Boot Doktor, or just Herr Doktor for short.

Edited by - on

Sam001
Vice Commodore

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441 Posts

Response Posted - 05/03/2013 : 17:23:09

Herr doctor with a cocktail

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Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 05/04/2013 : 07:46:34

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Sam001
 Herr doctor with a cocktail<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">IPA. (I'm not sure where this is going...)

Edited by - on

sethp001
Mainsheet C-25 Tech Editor

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814 Posts

Response Posted - 05/04/2013 : 19:59:01

[quote]Originally posted by redeye
 Mine has done the same. I've put on a new mast plate which has a bigger foot than the last and filled the area with polysulfide ( boat life ). An attempt to stop leaking but, no not an actual repair. Something seems to keep getting in my way of actual repairs..... ( notice a pattern here anyone..)

Where did you get the bigger mast plate?

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Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 05/05/2013 : 06:59:44

Spreading the load with a bigger plate is dubious... The mast is supposed to be supported by the compression post in the cabin (the wood post on the port bulkhead)--not the cabintop itself. Unless you build up the approx. 1" thick area between the step and the post, which used to be the deck core, you're not getting the support of the post.

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redeye
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Response Posted - 05/06/2013 : 04:51:23

<< Where did you get the bigger mast plate? >>

Not a bigger mast plate...

The Mast plate ( a regular mast plate from CD direct ) has a little bigger footprint than the original mast step.

ANyhoo.... when I do get a look at mine next time ( probably in a few years knowing me ) I'll take some pitures to share..

Iffin you (or anyhoo else ) opens yours up ( removes the step ) please take some pictures for us so we can better visualise the reported problem.. Right now mine seems to be hanging in there fine.

But.. like someone suggested, Marine tex is good for filling a keel.. not ideal for the deck.

Oh.. and when I did remove the mast step it appeared it was a little indented into the deck but looked fine ... no appearance of rot or decay. Hmmm wonder what they put in there at the factory.. ( probably marine tex

)

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Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 05/06/2013 : 07:15:47

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by redeye
 ...and when I did remove the mast step it appeared it was a little indented into the deck but looked fine ... no appearance of rot or decay. Hmmm wonder what they put in there at the factory.. ( probably marine tex<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I'm pretty sure the mast step is sitting on the same cored deck as makes up the rest of the cabintop. A slight indentation might be normal, since there can be gaps between the fiberglass and the plywood core. But if it's indented to the point of cracking the fiberglass, that's probably a bad sign.

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redeye
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Response Posted - 05/06/2013 : 10:18:14

<< I'm pretty sure the mast step is sitting on the same cored deck as makes up the rest of the cabintop. >>

Interesting.. and that makes sense. Well. that makes me think I might just level it ( any indentation ) out with some gflex, and then put the mast plate over that.

Thank You..

Edited by - on

awetmore
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Response Posted - 05/06/2013 : 17:33:06

The mast step was the highest thing on the cabin top on #4670. It has no indention at all and if anything sits a little higher than the deck immediately around it.

Before doing anything like filling the mast step with Marine-Tex I would make sure to investigate for any moisture issues. Water spreads easily through plywood and I wouldn't want to cause any more delamination or rot then you make already have.

Fixing this doesn't sound fun (or inexpensive), but fixing a bigger problem sounds even less fun.

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sethp001
Mainsheet C-25 Tech Editor

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814 Posts

Response Posted - 05/06/2013 : 23:16:00

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Stinkpotter
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Sam001
 Herr doctor with a cocktail<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">IPA. (I'm not sure where this is going...)
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

IPAs are my favorite, but whatever redeye's drinking sure looks good on deck.

Edited by - sethp001 on 05/06/2013 23:16:40

redeye
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Response Posted - 05/07/2013 : 03:52:07

Malibu and Coconut water. lots of ice. Very refreshing.

Cheers . . . Here's to not getting water in the deck. Who knows, maybe my excessive layer of boat life was just the trick!

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redeye
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Response Posted - 05/07/2013 : 04:26:44

So... it looks like mine was just a little indented in the deck, and the mast plate has a much bigger foot than the mast step. Interesting.

Seth.. maybe you could take some pictures and show us your mast step and the indentation below it to see just how far down it goes. . .

I was worried about the blocks pulling up on the wings of the plate and flexing and causing a leak under it.

Edited by - redeye on 05/07/2013 04:46:19

redeye
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Response Posted - 05/07/2013 : 05:08:47

The Malibu and cranberry is very pretty... But my fav is the Pomegranate, Coconut water, and Malibu.... Which I've named the "Pomeahboo". I like the fact that the malibu is relatively low alcohol compared to some of the other rums.

Anyhoo... yepper.. If you get some pictures posted Seth maybe we can actually be of some assistance...

Edited by - on

sethp001
Mainsheet C-25 Tech Editor

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814 Posts

Response Posted - 05/07/2013 : 15:26:49

We should start another thread of scenic pictures of alcoholic drinks on our Catalina 25s.

Here are some photos of the mast sinking into the step:

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islander
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Response Posted - 05/07/2013 : 16:08:15

Mine has a slight indentation also with a few cracks but not as extreme as yours. Just a little bit off base here but how tight are your shrouds?
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">the malibu is relatively low alcohol compared to some of the other rums.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Whats the point of that...

Edited by - islander on 05/07/2013 16:13:40

redeye
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Response Posted - 05/08/2013 : 03:43:07

Seth.. Those pictures show it well.. Perzactly what mine looked like. So I filled the low area with polysulfide and added a mast step. Works but not a good solution. gflex will be added in there when I get a round tuit. Thanks for reminding me of a previous step that I prepared poorly.

I'd probably put some creeping crack sealer on those cracks on yours and put a patch under the step with gflex.

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Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 05/08/2013 : 07:09:34

Yup--you should have a solid base between the mast step and the compression post, and yours has deteriorated--probably due to rot in the plywood core. The rot is probably caused by leakage around the step fasteners under the mast, and the cracks and depressed area are now adding to the leakage. Do you see any signs of trouble in the compression post in the cabin? You might have two lag screws through the step that reach down into the post, as well as two bolts that come through just forward of the post. (I'm not sure all boats have the same fastenings.) Leakage around those fasteners or the wire connector could have caused this. The repair depends on what is found under there...

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 05/08/2013 07:13:15

redeye
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Response Posted - 05/08/2013 : 07:41:04

Hmmm.. I'm guessing lots of marine tex would be better than lots of polysulfide

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redeye
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Response Posted - 05/08/2013 : 08:51:06

<< The repair depends on what is found under there.. >>

I guessing the repair is ( if the compression post is good ) to simply drill holes in the deck below the step and fill it with resin.

The same way they build up the strength in any soft cored deck.

You can see below the deck an area that drops down on the inside.

So I guess that would hold some resin in from flowing all inside the liner space.

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islander
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Response Posted - 05/08/2013 : 15:43:28

Another solution would be to drill small holes through the fiberglass under the step and fill them with Git-Rot to penetrate and harden up the soft plywood then level the indentation with G-Flex. Re- install the plate sealing all the screw/bolt holes. Then go have one of these tasty looking beverages...

Edited by - islander on 05/08/2013 15:48:15

sethp001
Mainsheet C-25 Tech Editor

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814 Posts

Response Posted - 05/09/2013 : 20:55:07

I went down to the boat Tuesday evening. Tapped around the mast step. Took some more pictures. I get a very nice sharp report anywhere I tap - so no delamination anywhere yet. I think these new photos make it look not so bad.

I think I'm going to shoot in some Git Rot like Islander suggests, then fill in the depression with Marine Tex, then cover the repair with the same plate that Redeye has. That plate is recommended by Catalina for the C25, if you want some more places to attach rigging. I don't, but it will cover the repair and protect the area nicely. I believe this solution is safer than gutting a section of the deck and rebuilding.

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