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Comments on the C25 from my day rental

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TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

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2272 Posts

Initially Posted - 07/23/2013 : 04:18:48

We rented a C25 for a daysail on Lake Washington Sunday. The boat was hull number 1143 (maybe someone can tell me what year that represents) and had the older aluminum frame non-tinted windows. It appeared to be a standard rig (no bow sprit, boom was over 6' high in the cockpit). It had an L-shaped dinette (though the table appeared to have been chopped down to the dimensions of a small cocktail table). I looked in the bilge and saw (rusted) keel bolts, so it was not a swinger, but not sure whether it was a fin or wing.

The boat's interior was unfortunately in sad shape. The wood was weathered and grayed, some mildew on cushions and life jackets, the foot pump to the sink was inoperable, stove was removed leaving a big hole, cooler top missing, leaking around the chainplates leading to some rotting of the bulkhead's top edge, etc. Aside from some newer interior cushions made out of vinyl canvas, the interior was severely neglected. But we weren't looking to buy it, just to rent it for daysailing, and for that purpose it was suitable. It's just a shame to see the effects of no "pride of ownership" on a club boat, as this boat had really been allowed to deteriorate.

While waiting to check out I looked over the club's fleet of other boats, and was really drooling over the several Capri 22's that they had. Their huge cockpits, low freeboard, wide side decks, and inboard chainplate placement made them look like great fun for a 4-person daysail. But none of this club's boats had bimini tops, and as the sun bore down on us later that day we were glad we had the roomier cabin of the C25 to occasionally duck into for shade.

This was my first time sailing a C25, in fact I think it may have been my first time on a C25, so some comparisions with our C250 are inevitable. First, and most important, it is easy to see why this boat was a classic in its time, and became the most popular boat of its size in history. The interior is surprisingly bright and roomy for a boat of its size, and it does have classic lines. However, the cockpit of the C25 is shorter than the C250's, and that was very noticeable with 4 people aboard like we had yesterday. In addition, our C250's perch seats make it even easier to seat 4 people with ample room for everyone to stretch their legs and even lie down in the cockpit. Since we use our C250 primarily as a daysailer, its greater cockpit space is a big plus to us.

Because of the smaller cockpit, the C25's cabin is noticeably larger than the C250. However, Catalina did a clever job of overcoming this on the C250 by removing the bulkheads and creating a single large multipurpose space. The C250's A-berth effectively removes any height limitation for sleeping passengers, since one can put his head in the bow area and rest his legs on the settee alongside the table (which we have further facilitated on our boat by converting the table to drop leaves). This became a major plus when my 6'5" son and I took our C250 on a cruise last month. My wife and I are both 5'11", and it did not seem like the C25's V-berth would have allowed sufficient length to lie comfortably. Removal of the bulkhead on the C250 converts the salon area to dual-purpose (lounging/dining and legroom extension for sleeping), however I can see how some with small children would prefer a bulkhead for privacy.

I do like the C25's pop top design better than the C250's, especially with such a tall son. It appears that the C25 could be sailed in calm weather with the pop top up, which is impossible on the C250. However, I do prefer the fully enclosed amidships head of the C250, because it better isolates the unpleasantness from the berths.

One of the major differences between the two boats is the lack of side decks on the C250, so I was curious to see how the C25's side decks would facilitate movement forward from the cockpit. Early on I noticed my son going forward on the cabin top (probably out of habit from our C250), and I pointed out to him that he could use the side decks instead. However, he complained that the upper shrouds interfered with his movement because the outboard chainplates caused them to block his access path. So he did not use the side decks. I've used side decks many times on larger vessels, but their chainplates were generally at the inside of the side decks. I found that on the C25 the cabin top was a much higher step up from the cockpit (not a big deal for my 6'5" son, but a problem for me), so I generally used the side decks. Of course, the high cabin top gives the C25 nice headroom down below, which was about the same as our C250WK.

Unfortunately we had very light wind for most of the day, so I did not get a full test of the sailing characteristics. The boat was outfitted with what looked to be a 130 headsail with roller furling, so we were able to make some headway with the light winds. For the short while that we did get a decent 8-10 mph breeze, I noticed a pretty strong lee helm that required a lot of tiller pressure to overcome. I tried to adjust the sailplan to reduce it, but the breeze died before I had time to do much.

While the 130 was helpful for the light breeze, tacking was a major pain. The sheets were attached with two bowline knots which were constantly getting hung up in the forward lowers, and once the sail passed the mast it would invariably get caught in the spreader as we were sheeting in. Although made worse by the light winds, it appeared to be an ongoing problem based on the severe chafe on that part of the genoa. This would be totally unacceptable on our narrow river because we do so much tacking. On our C250 we use a single double-length sheet attached with a cow hitch (smaller and lighter than the two bowlines), we have no forward lowers for the knot to catch on, and the slightly swept-back spreaders and smaller 110 headsail manage to avoid any chafe. Overall, it's a compromise for us where we give up some sail power in exchange for much easier tacking.

One other difference between our C250 and this C25 is the age-old wheel vs. tiller issue. It did seem like the tiller took up half the cockpit, and forced the other three passengers to crowd into the front half. Also, with the sub-optimal sail balance of this boat, I could not let go of the tiller for even a second. They did have a bungee cord tiller tamer that I set up briefly, but I felt claustrophobic having the cord effectively confining me in the back half of the cockpit. My C250's wheel does seem to address some of these issues, including the ability to let go for short periods without the boat suffering weather or lee helm (I have an autopilot if I need to let go for longer times).

But overall the rental boat sailed well, and pointed higher than larger charter boats that I had rented in the past (C36 and Jenneau 379). Both of those boats had issues with sail shape that limited pointing ability, so I was pleasantly surprised that this boat pointed as well as it did (despite battens missing from the mainsail pockets).

Overall we had a good time and I got a good idea why the C25 is such an enduring classic, even though it did not cause any "buyer's remorse" over having purchased my C250.

Rick S., Swarthmore, PA
PO of Take Five, 1998 Catalina 250WK #348 (relocated to Baltimore's Inner Harbor)
New owner of 2001 Catalina 34MkII #1535 Breakin' Away (at Rock Hall Landing Marina)

Edited by - on

shnool
Former Capri-25 Tech Editor

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USA
1032 Posts

Response Posted - 07/23/2013 : 05:56:12

I cannot comment on the differences between the 250 and 25... other that to say I like them both but for different reasons...

As for the Capri 22... I've got lots of miles in one of those to say... it's a different thought process to make that boat, and it's an ideal sailboat rental boat. Tough, responsive, quick, stable, easy to get around in (wide side decks), and most importantly a large cockpit. A bimini was never really a thought process for the 22. It was never meant to cruise (look below you'll see what I mean). It was really an attempt to make an inexpensive, day sailor with all the grown up controls, with very little frills. The newer mod, does this in spades and essentially does away with all teak, to make the boat pretty low maintenance as well... It's an undock, and go sailing kind of boat... It's even a pain to deal with stowing and deploying an anchor... but again, not the target audience.

Edited by - on

TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

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2272 Posts

Response Posted - 07/23/2013 : 06:45:06

I realize that the concept of putting a bimini on a Capri is absurd. But I knew from past experience that my wife needs a place to get out of the sun, so if there's no bimini on a boat then there needs to be a comfortable cabin, which is why the C25 was the right choice from the boats that were available.

Unfortunately my son got pretty bad sunburn that day. He waited until the clouds burned off before applying sunscreen, and by that time he noticed that he was already burnt. My wife retreated to the cabin as soon as the sun came out and spent over 3/4 of the time down there.

Edited by - on

redviking
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1771 Posts

Response Posted - 07/23/2013 : 07:04:20

Yeah, yeah, yeah... I think you knows Whatz you likes already anyway... But nice write up.

Sten

Edited by - on

Sloop Smitten
Master Marine Consultant

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1181 Posts

Response Posted - 07/23/2013 : 08:07:23

Boat appears to be a 79 model with the cast iron keel. I found your review to be spot on but I think the biggest difference between the two boats, and the reason a lot of people go with the C25, is a C25 in good shape will sell for about 1/3 (or less) than what a C250 will sell for.

Regarding the shrouds, I use them for my primary handhold when going forward. A lot better than the lifelines.

Edited by - on

piseas
Former Treasurer

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USA
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Response Posted - 07/23/2013 : 09:24:27

Rick, nice review-tks. My neighbor has a c25 but have not sailed with her as of yet. I have never sailed on one either but have been on Jim B's-past Commodore. I got my C250 primarily because I didnt have time to do the upkeep on an older boat. I wanted to board her and just go sailing.
I was lucky to have my C250 outfitted with almost everything I thoughjt I wanted.Until I got my bimini. I looked at several off the shelf types but never they never provided the coverage I wanted. It took me 3 custom bimini makers and 2 years before I got what I wanted. This is the best investment I have ever made, beside my C250 of course. The only major job I have personally done is replace 2 batteries and the jib, which was quite a job for me and I was glad to have the help of one of our members, John P.
But you bring up an interesting subject re jib sheets:1 or 2? I have 2 and getting ready one day to replace. I have only once or twice had them get hung up. When I do replace, I will try one piece and evaluate. I can always cut later. Maybe some of you can chime in, especially if you have sailed both ways.
In the end, we are all lucky to have our 25's of any variation. I get lots of compliments how well and fast she sails for a smaller boat by those who sail much larger ones.
And one last thing, I would never give up my tiller in order to step up in size. I have not found it an issue with crowding others. They know better to just move than complain knowing I will toss them overboard;) or worse yet, never invite them back. That has never happened. In fact I can only think of two times never inviting someone back and that was cause they were always late-by 1/2 hour or more or talked the entire time while sailing. Hey another good topic. What type of person have you not invited back?

Steve A
PS I offer each of my crew/guest an inflatable life vest so I think twice about cost of re-arming before I do toss overboard.

Edited by - on

shnool
Former Capri-25 Tech Editor

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1032 Posts

Response Posted - 07/23/2013 : 09:37:18

Sunscreen is a huge issue... no doubt, and in some climes... it can be downright nasty without some shade... I meant no disrespect at all!

Frankly I find pros and cons to both the 25 and 250... I can also attest to the fact that losing cockpit space to a tiller can be a drag, although from a feel standpoint I prefer the tiller... for a comfort standpoint I'd rather the wheel. As for the catbird seats, I'd love to have them myself.

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 07/23/2013 : 09:44:09

Rick,

Seems to be a very fair and accurate review of the C-25 based on your experiences with the rental.

When I was looking to get back into sailing in 2005 after having had a new ODay 23 back in the 1980-1985 timeframe, the decision was first how much was I willing to pay for a sailboat this time around and considering the knowledge of other costs - Upkeep, insurance, docking. Also, while I could have bought a more expensive boat, there are other interests, hobbies, etc that I would have to factor in and then have the boat cost pass the spouse sanity test for getting back into sailing. Considering my 1989 C-25 cost $9750 back in 2005, the sailboats I was looking at were also in the same cost range. So, going with a newer sailboat, the C-250 or other potential sailboats that would have cost significantly more were not really being considered. But if I had opted to spend more, I don't know if I would have been more interested in a later model of the Cat 25 or a larger sailboat of same vintage as what I had bought - probably, I would have gone larger.

The reasons I would have probably have gone larger are for some of the characteristics that you brought up in your review - The cockpit is a bit small, the V-Berth is a bit too small and the tiller swing range takes up room in the cockpit. The side rails, I do use the side rails on my C-25 but granted the stays do get in the way on narrow side rails and oftentimes opt for switrching up to the cabin top. However, I have found my 1989 C-25 Wing Keel Tall Rig w/150 furling rig genoa, the sweet spot for sailing on the Potomac River. Would I be happy with another sailboat - Probably. But I like the outside wood trim and the inside cabin bulkheads. Light winds, I furl my genoa, otherwise, as you indicated the head sail can be a pain getting hung up a bit when their are very light winds. I should also indicate that the wing keel is great on the Potomac due to the shallower areas outside of the channel and since it is a lead keel and obviously no moving parts, there is no maintenance.

In summary, it is great that there are so many choices out there for one that is considering getting into sailing. I believe that it is not so much a decision of a right or wrong choice but perhaps a decison between many right choices if one can focus on the factors that are important to them and thse factors can change with time. The amount of dough you are willing to play with in the purchase is one of many important factors.

Edited by - on

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 07/23/2013 : 13:30:32

My old genoa trimmer (who weighed 250) always complained that he went home with a bruised butt because of being hit with the tiller while tacking. I cut 10" off it and had no more complaints, had more room for guests in the cockpit and had no change in handling characteristics.
GaryB bought the tiller after the demise of TSU and he loves the shorter length.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 07/23/2013 : 20:51:59

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Derek Crawford
 ...I cut 10" off it and had no more complaints, had more room for guests in the cockpit and had no change in handling characteristics...
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Good idea! I might have tried that.

The lee helm is a little surprising--I never had it even sailing my C-25 SR-FK on 130 genny alone. The helm went essentially neutral that way. I'm thinking the mast was tipped forward, or the sheet cars were so far forward that the sail was cupped in when you were pointing.

Good discussion--pointing out the main evolutionary changes between the models. What do you suppose is next?

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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Response Posted - 07/23/2013 : 21:29:32

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Stinkpotter
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Derek Crawford
 ...I cut 10" off it and had no more complaints, had more room for guests in the cockpit and had no change in handling characteristics...
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Good idea! I might have tried that.

The lee helm is a little surprising--I never had it even sailing my C-25 SR-FK on 130 genny alone. The helm went essentially neutral that way. I'm thinking the mast was tipped forward, or the sheet cars were so far forward that the sail was cupped in when you were pointing.

Good discussion--pointing out the main evolutionary changes between the models. What do you suppose is next?

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

When I broke my original tiller I was surprised at how little control I felt I'd lost. It broke off about the last foot or so. I've since acquired a shorter tiller that I used for a while when I was re-refinishing my cobbled together plywood tiller a while back, and quite liked using it as well. The shorter length makes it easier to stand up in the back of the cockpit when navigating the marina's fairway w/o bonking my head on the boom, because I can stand further aft.

I also like the idea on a C-25 of being able to go forward without having to step up onto the cabin top, or worse, down from it on the way back. That is absolutely the most worrisome thing I do on the boat, I feel like I have a half second or so of vulnerability where a wrong step, or rogue wave could knock me off the boat. It's one of the reasons I rarely wear shoes on the boat, I don't want to have a potentially slippery sole between me and the non-skid. This doesn't work so well when it gets colder though. I also favor the port side because I have fewer lines lead back, so less chance of stepping on one and having it roll underfoot.

Edited by - delliottg on 07/23/2013 21:30:29

awetmore
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 07/27/2013 : 09:32:17

It's a pretty fair summary.

The side decks on the C25 are small, a victim of it's 8' beam (many other 25' boats have 6-12" wider beam). I've spent a lot of time sitting on the windward side deck trying to get the boat to heal in extremely light winds, and it's not the most comfortable place to be. My Pearson has much wider side decks and they are a lot more comfortable.

It's a shame that the charter company that you used had you in such a poorly maintained boat. The interior can be fairly comfortable.

I think that boat is probably from around 1980.

If you do go back there try a Capri 22. The cabin isn't tiny and a couple of people can sit down there in comfort.

Bimini's are pretty uncommon around the PNW, especially on smaller boats. I've been cruising for the last month and haven't seen a <28' boat with one. Dodgers are extremely common, but again mostly on boats a size larger than the C25. After a month of sailing in bright sun my wife has asked about adding a bimini to our Pearson, but I don't know how to do it with the lowish boom.

The C250 bulkhead-less design isn't unique. My 1986 Pearson also has it, and so do many other "modern" boats. By looking back on drawings on sailboatdata I think that either Bene or Jenneau were the first major manufacturers to do it. We also like the opened up interior on our Pearson even though we don't use the V-berth for anything but storage (we sleep in the aft cabin, which is similar but bigger to the quarterberth on the C25).

It sounds like the C25 that you rented was probably not tuned very well. My C25 also had some leehelm until I tuned up the rig, that made it quite a bit more neutral. It was a tall rig and I found it pretty easy to get it ghosting along in any wind, even a couple mph. You don't go very fast of course in those speeds.

I hate when boats are equipped with two sheets and big bowlines on them. A single sheet with a cow hitch is a lot better, and better yet are two sheets with eye splices and soft shackles. Those will pass over shrouds very easily, making the big sail less of a handicap. When racing the C25 in light air we still find it advantageous to have someone carry the genoa (we have a 150+) around the shrouds on tacks.

All sailboats are compromises, but overall I think Catalina did a nice job on the 25 of making a race-able boat that can also be comfortable for short to medium term cruising. I think the 8' beam handicaps it a bit and it could be better balanced over a range of heel angles, but overall it sails quite nicely.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 07/27/2013 : 10:21:11

I found the loop on the cow hitch could also snag, although the sheet that came with my boat was fatter than it need to be--something like 1/2". Also, the cow hitch could be almost impossible to break at the end of the season--I'd work it with a marlin spike for what seemed like forever. But I'm not a fan of any kind of hardware attached to the clew--if somebody is forward and the sail luffs, it can be dangerous.
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I've spent a lot of time sitting on the windward side deck trying to get the boat to heal in extremely light winds,<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">...meaning "the other windward..."?

Edited by - on

awetmore
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 07/28/2013 : 18:18:52

A soft shackle isn't hardware, it is a shackle made out of dyneema line. You can make one pretty easily out of about 3' of amsteel or buy them already made from companies like Colligo. They are great for sheets, much safer than metal shackles. Once you learn how to make them there are a lot of useful variations too.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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Response Posted - 09/21/2013 : 09:57:23

Talk about a coincidence! Last night, I sailed, with the owner and his father, on a Jenneau 379, and suspect it might be the same Jenneau 379 that you chartered. The boat's name is Zoweh, and it is in charter, and is slipped next to the Chart House restaurant in Annapolis. While we were out, I remembered you mentioning that you had chartered a Jenneau 379, and found your mention of it in this thread. If it's the same boat, it's a beauty, and was commissioned just this spring, so it's virtually new. The owner and I have crewed together occasionally on another friend's boat. Zoweh has 3 staterooms, and the owner says he believes it's the only Jenneau 379 on the Bay with that configuration.

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GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 09/21/2013 : 14:22:53

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Derek Crawford
 My old genoa trimmer (who weighed 250) always complained that he went home with a bruised butt because of being hit with the tiller while tacking. I cut 10" off it and had no more complaints, had more room for guests in the cockpit and had no change in handling characteristics.
GaryB bought the tiller after the demise of TSU and he loves the shorter length.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Yes I do! It makes a world of difference moving around the cockpit, especially when tacking. I'll never go back to a full length tiller on a C25.

There's really no reason to have a long tiller on a C25, especially with an adjustable tiller extension that folds out of the way when not needed.

Edited by - on

TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 09/21/2013 : 16:33:27

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Steve Milby
 Talk about a coincidence! Last night, I sailed, with the owner and his father, on a Jenneau 379, and suspect it might be the same Jenneau 379 that you chartered. The boat's name is Zoweh, and it is in charter, and is slipped next to the Chart House restaurant in Annapolis. While we were out, I remembered you mentioning that you had chartered a Jenneau 379, and found your mention of it in this thread. If it's the same boat, it's a beauty, and was commissioned just this spring, so it's virtually new...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
The Jenneau Sun Oddyssey 379 that I chartered was in BVI in January, 2013, managed by SunSail, named "Chiltern Lady."

The one we were on had only two staterooms and one head. IIRC, Sunsail also offers a "three couples just friends" version of that boat with three staterooms and three very small heads, but since it was my wife and my son, we opted for the two staterooms with roomier salon and galley.

I agree that it is a beautiful boat with a wide-ass transom that allows a lot of room on in the cockpit and down below. The drop-down swim platform is really pretty cool. But there were a few things we didn't really care for. I don't have time to go into that now, but it's a boat I'd love to charter again, but probably would not want to own. I'm glad your friend likes his - in the grand scheme of things (outside my nit-picking), it's a really nice boat.

Edited by - TakeFive on 09/21/2013 16:34:25

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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Response Posted - 09/21/2013 : 17:55:45

Zoweh has 3 staterooms, but only one fairly large sized head. I like it alot, but it would be bad if you were cruising with 6 people and the only head malfunctioned.

I like the fact that the primary winches are within easy reach of the steering wheels. They make it easy to singlehand. But, the other side of the coin is that their location makes it very difficult for a crew member to operate the primary winches. If crew has to grind the winches, he's off balance, because he has to reach so far to grasp the winch handles.

Beneteaus and Jeanneaus seem to like the German mainsheet system. The big Beneteau racers have a separate pair of winches for the mainsheet. The cruisers make the primary winches serve double duty. When one primary winch is holding the jibsheet, the other primary winch is controlling the mainsheet. When you tack the boat, you have to peel the mainsheet off the other winch, wrap the other jibsheet on that winch and haul it in, and then wrap the mainsheet on the opposite winch. I have become accustomed to the German system with two sets of winches, and kind of like it, but haven't used the cruising version enough to have an opinion, except that it seems like a lot of line handling on a boat that should be simple to handle. The system we have all become accustomed to makes the mainsail basically self-tending. The German system with only one pair of winches requires someone to change over the mainsheet with each tack. I'm not sure I like that system, but maybe it just requires getting accustomed to it.

Edited by - on

Peregrine
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Response Posted - 09/21/2013 : 19:34:41

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Steve Milby
 Zoweh has 3 staterooms, but only one fairly large sized head. I like it alot, but it would be bad if you were cruising with 6 people and the only head malfunctioned.

I like the fact that the primary winches are within easy reach of the steering wheels. They make it easy to singlehand. But, the other side of the coin is that their location makes it very difficult for a crew member to operate the primary winches. If crew has to grind the winches, he's off balance, because he has to reach so far to grasp the winch handles.

Beneteaus and Jeanneaus seem to like the German mainsheet system. The big Beneteau racers have a separate pair of winches for the mainsheet. The cruisers make the primary winches serve double duty. When one primary winch is holding the jibsheet, the other primary winch is controlling the mainsheet. When you tack the boat, you have to peel the mainsheet off the other winch, wrap the other jibsheet on that winch and haul it in, and then wrap the mainsheet on the opposite winch. I have become accustomed to the German system with two sets of winches, and kind of like it, but haven't used the cruising version enough to have an opinion, except that it seems like a lot of line handling on a boat that should be simple to handle. The system we have all become accustomed to makes the mainsail basically self-tending. The German system with only one pair of winches requires someone to change over the mainsheet with each tack. I'm not sure I like that system, but maybe it just requires getting accustomed to it.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

The lack of any actual racing expertise by S. Milby in any seriously competitive boat makes all these comments useless and quite honesty a waste of time for our racing members’ experiences.

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TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 09/21/2013 : 19:40:47

On the 379 that we chartered, the jib sheet winches were on the coamings near the cockpit, but positioned far enough forward that crew could easily reach them from the settee forward of the wheel:
<center>

</center>
The secondary winches near the companionway are used for halyards and mainsheet, and can also be used for traveler if extra leverage is needed for that. The mainsheet system allows you to adjust trim on either side. All of these lines have clutches, so you could free up the winch once they're trimmed. And there was no need to re-winch the mainsheet when tacking. You just let the boom move over without changing the mainsheet, and readjust the traveler if it's not centered:
<center>

</center>
On my Catalina 250 the two winches are on either side of the companionway (like the 379's secondary winches shown in the pic above), and over time we've really come to appreciate having them there. It's a near perfect arrangement for two-handed sailing, because the sheet tender can just sit in the companionway during a tack while releasing one genoa sheet and trimming the other. On a boat as small as a 25 footer, where heel can be strongly affected by the weight distribution of even one person, this is a much more stable arrangement than having to move all the way to the leeward side of the boat to trim the sheet.

The wheel on our boat does make it tough to move forward when single handing (which I do very rarely), but when I've done it I either straddle the wheel so I can move forward to grab the sheets, or (preferably) I put on auto-pilot and use my wireless remote to initiate an auto-tack while I'm sitting in the companionway grinding the winches. The latter works great in normal conditions where autopilot is stable. The former is my fallback if I have rougher conditions.

I also have cam cleats on the coaming near the helm, and can route my genoa sheets back there if I want to tack from behind the wheel. I lose the benefit of the winches, but as long as I time my tacks carefully, I can get the sheet trimmed all the way before the genoa fills fully with air.

Over time I have become more and more impressed with the C250's configuration for the type of daysailing and weekending that we do. It is so easy to sail and nicely laid out. I love cruising, but the fact is we can only do it one week a year, and for that it is so much more sensible to just charter, especially when we can do so at more exotic locations than any boat that we own.

Edited by - TakeFive on 09/21/2013 19:48:21

TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 09/21/2013 : 19:54:47

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Peregrine
 
The lack of any actual racing expertise by S. Milby in any seriously competitive boat makes all these comments useless and quite honesty a waste of time for our racing members’ experiences.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I'm not sure if you're serious or just poking fun at a friend, but calling someone's commentary "useless" might be more suited to the environment at Sailing Anarchy than here. If you're that bored, you and your racing friends can feel free to move on and ignore this thread. Maybe you should just stick to the "Racing Forum" on this site, and leave the "Genaral Sailing" forum to the rest of us.

Edited by - TakeFive on 09/21/2013 19:55:24

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