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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

General Sailing Forum

We flew our spinnaker for the first time today

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delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Initially Posted - 07/27/2013 : 22:12:09

It took us three hoists, first one the starboard sheet came loose from the clew, second, the halyard got caught on our radar reflector, third time's the charm and up it went!

And for the first time this season, didn't get skunked!

My best friend with two of the three keepers we pulled out of the water this afternoon. We re-set the pots for an overnight soak, and Rita & I will go back tomorrow and hopefully bring in a bunch more.

David
C-250 Mainsheet Editor

Sirius Lepak
1997 C-250 WK TR #271 --Seattle area Port Captain --

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shnool
Former Capri-25 Tech Editor

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1032 Posts

Response Posted - 07/28/2013 : 04:29:05

Spin flying is always such a chore, but then once it's up, and drawing nicely it's like an afterburner! It looks great!

Edited by - shnool on 07/28/2013 04:29:43

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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4479 Posts

Response Posted - 07/28/2013 : 09:57:20

We decided to put it up because there wasn't much wind to work with. First we had to figure out how, fortunately the tack, clew & head are all marked on their respective corners. The two sheets are different diameters, and the starboard sheet took some doing to get it through the block at the catbird seat, but my friend's son eventually got it through. I'll be switching both sheets out for one 2x the length that I'll put a cow hitch in. We poled it out with a whisker pole that the PO had marked in permanent marker for the proper extension for when he'd used it in the 2004 nationals.

Once we had it up and drawing, we were making about 3 knots in almost no perceptible winds. It was hard to fly, I've never flown an asymmetrical before, but once I figured out it's really just a really big jib, it became easier. I was expecting to have to play the working sheet like you do a regular spinnaker, but you really don't have to, at least not very much.

The tack needs to be raised above the bow pulpit, otherwise the sail's going to get chafed badly, so I need to make up a short piece of wire, kevlar or something for that. And I'm not certain how much room there is at the top of the forestay to go up higher, it was hard to see. My friend thought we had at least another 1-1-1/2' to go. I couldn't see the top from the tiller, so I'll probably have to measure the luff & see, or just compare it to our 110%.

We only flew it for maybe 20-30 minutes, the wind was getting flukey and we got backwinded once which had the potential to get ugly, but it was still a pretty gentle breeze, so it turned out to be not that big of a deal.

Edited by - delliottg on 07/28/2013 10:03:33

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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4479 Posts

Response Posted - 07/28/2013 : 11:00:17

My friend & I have just discovered that we're hacks, we had the whole thing rigged wrong (well two of the three corners of the sail anyway). The sheets are supposed to be run <i>around</i> the forestay, not straight back to the catbird seat blocks like we did, and the little pendant on the tack is supposed to be run through a block and back to a controlling line in the cockpit. That explains the extra block that's always been on the bow, as well as the outboard-most port-side unused clutch, which ironically I used to use for a jib down haul, but never worked very well. Then the tack is just hanked onto the forestay like a regular jib.

At least we got the halyard part right...

I need to get a long enough piece of line to go from the winches on the cabin top, back to the catbird seats, all the way forward to the forestay, and back to the other winch, plus enough tail to allow for a jibe.

Let's see, (2x25' boat length) + (2x7' catbird seat to winch estimate) + (2x foot length, maybe 12'-14'?) = 92' or so? Anybody else run an asym spinny on their C-250 & can give me a sheet length?

Edited by - delliottg on 07/28/2013 11:12:11

britinusa
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5404 Posts

Response Posted - 07/28/2013 : 11:21:15

We had pretty much the same issue with the asym sheets.

I elected to run a single line from a cleat on mounted just forward of the cat bird seat, out to a block secured to the aft cleats, forward to the clew, then from the clew, in front of the jib stay, and aft back to the other side block and cleat. I think I got a line about 100'

The strain on the asym sheet is easily handled by the cleat, if the wind pipes up, we're pulling the spin down pronto.

Biggest issue for us is the block attached to the mast crane, the spin halyard gets snagged in with the furler when it is rotated to unfurl the jib.

And of course, my new Asym Tack Collar will be used next time out.

I have the tack rigged from the winch on the cabin top, to a block on the center portside stantion, to another block on pulpit and then up to the tack.

Using this method we can set the tack so that it is the same height as the clew, using the collar we should be able to keep the tack close to the jib stay. All told it adds up to a pretty spin shape.

Keeping the spin clew and tack the same height allows us to keep it flying to not quite, but nearly DDW.

Paul

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delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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4479 Posts

Response Posted - 07/28/2013 : 11:58:15

Thanks Paul. I remember the PO telling me about how to rig the sail, but that was almost seven years ago, and it's been sitting in it's bag under the V-berth ever since. I think I need either a bullseye padeye/fairlead on the same stanchion you mentioned (where you attach your port baby stay when raising/lowering mast?), and I'm good for hardware elsewhere.

I'm thinking 100' of 1/4" line ought to be enough to rig the sail with some extra.

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awetmore
Master Marine Consultant

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1144 Posts

Response Posted - 07/28/2013 : 18:30:37

Asym sheets are normally 2x the boat length each, so your 100' should work well.

Fisheries sells a non water absorbing line that is perfect for spinnaker sheets. This is it:
http://www.fisheriessupply.com/fse-robline-blue-dinghy-light

I use it in 8mm, which works well in my winch.

Those North sails Cruising Gennakers work pretty nicely. If you look through my old posts I wrote up how we set up and run it on the C25, including a pretty fast launch.

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shnool
Former Capri-25 Tech Editor

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1032 Posts

Response Posted - 07/29/2013 : 03:34:56

This thread needs more pictures...
Regardless rigging issues (which is common with any spin rigging asym or sym), you've entered into a new realm of go-fast, and have added to your arsenal of sails to fly, and tactics to use to get you places more quickly without the use of fossil fuels... that can only be cool!

Running the sheets AROUND the headstay is for gybing "on the outside," something that is required for masthead rigs mostly (or high percentage fractionals).

This is a great video of gybing "on the outside."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WbLoLfL0Lfk

This is as opposed to "on the inside" where you have to pull the whole chute through the slot between the forestay and the luff of the chute.

Edited by - shnool on 07/29/2013 03:38:40

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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4479 Posts

Response Posted - 07/29/2013 : 11:00:32

I have a number of other photos, but they're largely a slightly different version of this one.

Thanks for the video, I have some different rigging to work on for the sail, but it was fun to fly it, and I was still buzzing about it that evening, and my friend wants to get out again and perfect our technique.

It's somewhat ironic, I bought a really nice spinnaker pole several years ago thinking I'd use it with this sail, but I think it's not even necessary, so I might have a spinnaker pole for sale soon if anyone local is interested.

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shnool
Former Capri-25 Tech Editor

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1032 Posts

Response Posted - 07/29/2013 : 11:45:56

You should not need a spin pole for an asym, a wisker pole is Ok... but a SPRIT, that'd be cool (but not necessary).

Especially for a cruising spin the cut is shorter to be tacked at the deck, so has a shorter luff, and also has some swag at the top to give you room to ease a tack line when you sail deeper (to clear the pulpit).

Let the whole thing roll to windward some when you sail deeper to get more square footage forward, and you'll have fun, just don't sail real deep that is when things get interesting.

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awetmore
Master Marine Consultant

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1144 Posts

Response Posted - 07/29/2013 : 17:19:29

Don't toss the spinnaker pole yet. They aren't necessary with an asym, but you can use them to sail deeper than you'd otherwise be able to. This is the same sail design (though larger) as yours on my Pearson flying the tack off of a pole:

Without the pole I find that the asym sail works best at a beam reach into the middle range of a broad reach. We jybe almost 90 degrees. With the pole I can bring it almost into the DDW territory.

You do need a topping lift rigged to make this work though (you'd also need that for a symmetrical spinnaker, and it's helpful when using the pole with the jib).

There are some threads about this on Sailnet as well.

Edited by - awetmore on 07/29/2013 17:21:20

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