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bear
Admiral

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USA
909 Posts

Initially Posted - 08/10/2013 : 14:52:17

Elimination rounds were on NBC SN last night and there's another race on tonite.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 08/10/2013 : 15:00:56

Let's hope the eliminations aren't by attrition.

No NBCSN where I am this weekend--hope there's some racing during the week.

Edited by - on

Tradewind
Admiral

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USA
531 Posts

Response Posted - 08/10/2013 : 18:06:29

I watched yesterday's race, I haven't been following AC since the 12 meters but thought I'd check it out. The hi tech boats are interesting but not sure I can get into it anymore, guess I'm getting old.

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Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 08/10/2013 : 20:01:53

Something I read last week indicated the Emirates/NZ boat can't be beat--it's supposedly head-and-shoulders faster and better sailed than everyone else, including Oracle. That evidently led to Ellison finagling the last-minute rule change that allows him to try to juice up his boat... leading to NZ suing... leading a bunch of lawyers getting richer...

It appears NZ is (again) ahead on boat design and sailing, and the USA is behind on most things, as we alson find out in the Olympics. Ellison's boat is suspect, and his crew is from everywhere else--skipper (Australia), helmsman (UK), tactician (Australia), and down the line. The money is from the USA. I won't say who I'm rooting against...

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 08/10/2013 20:17:43

Peregrine
Admiral

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830 Posts

Response Posted - 08/10/2013 : 21:34:03

Americas Cup live and replays.

http://www.youtube.com/user/AmericasCup?feature=watch

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TCurran
Admiral

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USA
588 Posts

Response Posted - 08/11/2013 : 04:18:19

I've watched a couple of the races and have to say not very interested. The boats are amazing but after a few minutes of marveling at the boat, the race itself is boring. It seems to be strictly about the fastest boat, maybe I need to watch a little more, but I don't see how the crew, and skill of the crew, has that much affect on the race. No sail changes, gibes, etc that can make a slower boat with a great crew competitive with a fast boat and good crew. Just my thoughts on this years AC.

Edited by - TCurran on 08/11/2013 04:19:09

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 08/11/2013 : 07:32:18

From a little watching and reading, I gather that crew skills are very important, but they're very different skills. It's all about keeping the boat at the right attitude for maximum speed, when that speed is making things very hairy--sorta like Formula 1... Then there are some new rules that confine the boats to an area--sorta like being in a boxing ring--that give the tacticians some additional issues.

Is it better to be there or watch on TV? Being there is probably like being at one turn of a F-1 race and not knowing what's going on in the race--exciting for a while, but not very illuminating... Watching on TV gives you electronic aids, such as the course boundaries and relative boat positions (sometimes wrong), but loses some of the real spectacle (like golf and baseball).

To me, there's been nothing quite like Freemantle. "The Doctor is IN!"

(I still have a VHS tape somewhere of the last race--arguably the greatest in AC history.)

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 08/11/2013 07:32:45

Voyager
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USA
5377 Posts

Response Posted - 08/11/2013 : 18:13:27

Might be too late for today's race but most NBC broadcast affiliates carry NBC Sports as their secondary over the air feed (e.g.: ch 4.2 in NYC). If you've access to a digital TV even if your cable doesn't carry the program, you should be able to receive it off air. Assuming you want to mess with wires, remote control and menus that is …

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 08/11/2013 : 19:03:06

Regarding my statement about "different skills", here's a quote from Sail Magazine's update: <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Every time the Italians pulled off a successful full-foiling gybe and Artemis failed to follow suit, allowing its hulls to drop back into the water, they added multiple boat lengths to their lead. The Italians also looked stronger than ever in terms of their straight-line speed downwind, popping up onto their foils at will and then they staying there, looking as solid as if on rails.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Can anyone can 'splain the "full-foiling gybe" or "popping up on their foils" and how that's done. (I gather this has to do with hydrofoils that lift the leeward catamaran hull out of the water--if the speed is maintained.) Also, from what I've read, Emerates/NZ is even better at it, and Oracle might not be able to do it at all (unless the rule change survives in the court).

It's a new world of skills!

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 08/11/2013 19:04:27

Voyager
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USA
5377 Posts

Response Posted - 08/15/2013 : 12:27:01

Just got my new issue of sail mag. In it a reader opined that he's very disenchanted with the AC this year. That got me thinking about a quote from Larry Ellison about why he changed it all up. He wants sailing as a sport to be more TV friendly, more like NASCAR. Judging by most sailors' tepid at best, or negative responses, Uncle Larry it would seem got his wish!
Not that there's anything wrong with auto racing. But as sailors, I'd say the sentiment runs - if we wanted speedy boats we'd have all become powerboaters!

Edited by - Voyager on 08/15/2013 20:16:30

dmpilc
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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 08/15/2013 : 13:13:54

I watched the highlights of the 4 semi-final races. Artemis got the better start in the first two races, but Emerates/NZ got up on her foils faster and accelerated away from Artemis after the fist turn, and was able to tack/gybe several times without coming back down off the foils. Each of those maneuvers allowed them to increase their lead. Oracle will have to work very hard to beat them. First day of the finals is tomorrow.

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Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 08/15/2013 : 20:20:49

Oh my... 40 knots on the downwind legs, with 16 kts of wind at 30 degrees apparent (240 deg. true)--I'm still trying to figure out that geometry. Going from upwind to down, they adjust the jibs by just a few degrees. It appears there will be no chutes in the AC ever again. And now I've seen foil-to-foil gybes--no touching down onto the water like an actual boat...

My boat hits about 33 knots (38 mph), and it seems like I'm flying!

But then my boat is in the water, while theirs aren't. I guess hull design is another anachronism...

Edited by - on

bear
Admiral

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USA
909 Posts

Response Posted - 08/18/2013 : 07:12:20

Anybody else catch the mess on the water last evening during The Louis Vitton eliminations? Waste of time there.

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Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 08/18/2013 : 08:47:29

Ya, these boats don't have it figured out yet. Somebody else (besides Bart) is going to get hurt before it's over. Too much speed and not enough control.

But I can't figure out why, when NZ rounded that mark while flying on their on their starboard foil going into the turn, they didn't lower the port foil to hold them up--at least long enough to make a soft landing as they headed up-wind. It seems like the turn would push the outside (port) hull down, like a car in a sharp turn. That looked to me like the reason for the big dive. But nobody said anything about that.

But then, the Italians demonstrated fragility of those boards...

It's amazed me they that skinny little thing can hold up that entire boat while taking the torsional forces to keep it balanced in big chop and gusts. That's some amazing engineering--but maybe not quite amazing enough!

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 08/18/2013 08:48:58

pastmember
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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 08/18/2013 : 16:07:50

Tried to watch a few minutes ago, boat broke. It truly is irrelevant to me and I too still have tapes of Freemantle somewhere.

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dmpilc
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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 08/18/2013 : 16:34:54

I watched a video explaining how the daggerboard foils work. Given the weight of the boats, there is 8-9 tons of pressure on the foils, when they are sailing in a straight line. During a turn while up on the foils, the pressure increases to about 15 tons. Hard to imagine, and not surprising that things break. The foils, and the wing, are both moved by a common hydraulics system. In today's race, the Kiwis experiences an hydraulic failure that left them dead in the water.
BTW, not only do the daggerboard/foils raise up and down, but they also can be canted forward/aft a small amount to adjust the angle of the end of the foil, which controls whether the boat tips forward or back while it is up in the air. All while doing 35-45 kts. It's no wonder that Gary Jobson declined an offer to steer one; he didn't want the responsibility!!

Edited by - dmpilc on 08/18/2013 16:36:44

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 08/18/2013 : 20:08:49

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dmpilc
 ...Gary Jobson declined an offer to steer one; he didn't want the responsibility!!<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Gary Jobson is a nice guy and has a great sailing record, but listening to him the past few years as a commentator, including in yesterday's crazy race, I'm forced to suspect his battle with cancer has affected his abilities to operate at the level of the people driving those boats. Apparently it hasn't impaired his judgement.

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At Ease
Admiral

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672 Posts

Response Posted - 08/23/2013 : 17:05:09

America's Cup...are we doing that again??

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Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 08/23/2013 : 20:57:46

Yup, but it ain't your father's Americas Cup!

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Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 08/25/2013 : 19:21:41

So it's NZ, 7-1, with Luna Rosa winning only on an electrical-hydraulic failure that caused NZ to drop out.

I watched the two Oracle boats in a practice race, and I've concluded NZ will drub them, maybe 7-0, although Oracle might get one on a similar breakdown. The Oracle teams are nowhere in the class with NZ handling their boats and keeping them up on their foils. In these short, high-speed races, one hull in the water can cost the whole race. I also suspect that Oracle Racing suspects (or knows) the same things, and are more than a little worried.

It's not our traditional "sailing", but according a number of people involved, it's the hardest thing they've ever done. And 2-1/2 times the wind speed downwind (apparent wind at 15 degrees off the bow driving the boats up on their foils) is something I'm still trying to figure out!

Net: The AC goes back to the southern hemisphere. Full disclosure: After a 36 year career in the IT world, I'm gratified to see Larry Elli$on get his butt kicked. No need to go into why... No need to let me know when I'm wrong yet again--I'll be watching.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 08/25/2013 19:23:46

bear
Admiral

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USA
909 Posts

Response Posted - 09/07/2013 : 06:36:36

Believe 1st two races of America's cup are on NBC today. I believe 1:15 Pacific time, 2 more tomorrow on NBC also.

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britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 09/07/2013 : 15:03:26

Just watched the kiwis cross the finish 52 seconds ahead of Oracle

Anyone know anything about those really cool wrist displays they wear ???

Paul

Edited by - on

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 09/08/2013 : 12:00:17

It bored me, I actually found myself in the yard piddling in the garden half way through the broadcast. I am not sure how much more I will watch.
Not only are the boats unrelatable but there is no national pride on the line.

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britinusa
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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 09/08/2013 : 12:14:26

I'm pretty much with you Frank. But for me the issue is that the boats are really of no use except for that specific race. It's the technology spillover that interests me, as long as it is usable in my reality.

Paul

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 09/08/2013 : 12:53:43

I found it a bit of a snoozer as well. I miss the spinnaker runs.

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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 09/08/2013 : 14:15:48

I dunno... I have to admit the 20+ knot starting duels, foil-to-foil downwind legs, and 40 knot slam-dunk crossings can make the old races (other than Freemantle) a little like watching paint dry. But it's looking like Ellison might want to take his advertising off the wing and re-name the boat Team Australia (which it mostly is).

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