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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Gudgeon Upgrade fastner size

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Tahoe Cruiser
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USA
72 Posts

Initially Posted - 08/28/2013 : 21:42:50

So I ordered a new gudgeon for my lower rudder. I lost the flanged part and the rudder has way to much slop in it. I have the new gudgeon but not the fasteners. What size bolts length and diameter do I need? I want to use a hex head instead of a philips (stock ones). I just got home from sailing and forgot to look at the nut side of the current bolt. Thanks in advance.

1998 250 WK/TR #355 "Trail Break"
Lake Tahoe California

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britinusa
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5404 Posts

Response Posted - 08/29/2013 : 04:24:19

Welcome to the Forum Denton. I had to replace the rubber seal around the Wheel steering arm last year, so I had the transom open. From my recollection, the transom was about 3/4" an inch thick.

Totally agree with the choice of hex head bolts!

Paul

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Tahoe Cruiser
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Response Posted - 08/31/2013 : 00:30:52

Got lucky on my guess. I bought the right length and thread. I replaced the stock fasteners with with ss hex head bolts. I was not aware the brass backing plate was threaded as well. So the trick to replacing them by yourself is to remove all stock hardware and thread a bolt from the back side of transom in the middle bolt hole to hold backing plate in place while you thread the two bolts from outside into backing plate. Do not tighten bolts until you have all three bolts in and the rudder is in the gudgeon. Once the rudder is in tighten outside bolts. Remove rudder once more to tighten last middle bolt or bring a 1/2" crescent to tighten middle bolt as rudder is in way for sockets to work. I did this at 1100 at night hanging off my buoy. Only time I can get calm water without ski boats waking me out. Now for the top one. Catalina direct order is being placed. The top one is easy thanks to the fuel locker. I will be doing a bunch of mods and maintenance this winter with pics and write ups to help fellow 250 owners. Giving back is the name of the game right? Rudder is so much better with out the 1/4" play in the bottom gudgeon.

Edited by - Tahoe Cruiser on 09/06/2013 22:52:15

Tahoe Cruiser
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72 Posts

Response Posted - 08/31/2013 : 00:40:34

Forgot to mention that the length of the bolt should be at least 1 1/2" long and 5/16 is the thread diameter which will require a 1/2" socket or crescent wrench. The thread pitch is 18 threads per inch. I would go up to 1 3/4" to get some extra purchase on the nut.

Edited by - Tahoe Cruiser on 09/06/2013 22:53:36

britinusa
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Response Posted - 08/31/2013 : 05:06:16

Did you seal it with Butyl tape?

Paul

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Tahoe Cruiser
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72 Posts

Response Posted - 08/31/2013 : 06:18:44

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by britinusa
 Did you seal it with Butyl tape?

Paul
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Did not use butyl tape. Used marine 3m sealant. What is this tape you speak of?

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britinusa
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Response Posted - 08/31/2013 : 09:05:16

[url="http://www.sailrite.com/Butyl-Tape-Bedding-Deck-Hardware-Sealant-Video-Demo"]Sailrite Video of using Butyl tape[/url]

Paul

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Tahoe Cruiser
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72 Posts

Response Posted - 08/31/2013 : 12:55:34

Thanks for the info. I will do the top one with the wonder tape.

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Tahoe Cruiser
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72 Posts

Response Posted - 09/01/2013 : 10:00:05

This might be one of the only applications where butyl tape might not be ideal. Since you need to screw fasteners into the threaded backing plate the tape would not be as tight to the screw after thurning it 20+ times before its tight. The video says to not turn the screw while tightening the nuts. For all other bedings it looks like a great product.

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Dave Brown
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174 Posts

Response Posted - 09/04/2013 : 09:23:15

Redid both this summer, used 3m as well.
All's working well
Dave B.

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Tahoe Cruiser
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72 Posts

Response Posted - 09/06/2013 : 22:58:27

Both upper and bottom gudgeons have been replaced using the catalina direct products. All slop has been removed and the rudder feels more balanced. Used 3m sealant on both and I feel this will work best on the area these are located. The oem sealant was way past due and the lower one was even leaking water a bit. On to the next project.

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TakeFive
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Response Posted - 10/26/2013 : 18:09:10

FYI, today I bought six hex bolts to replace my current Phillips bolts. 5/16"x1.5", 18 thread pitch. I am hoping they will be easier to tighten, and will allow doing so without removing the rudder.

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Tahoe Cruiser
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Response Posted - 10/27/2013 : 20:28:29

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by TakeFive
 FYI, today I bought six hex bolts to replace my current Phillips bolts. 5/16"x1.5", 18 thread pitch. I am hoping they will be easier to tighten, and will allow doing so without removing the rudder.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Am not not sure you will be able to replace the center bolt as it is right behind the pintle. Rudder only takes a minute to remove which makes it a lot easier to deal with.

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TakeFive
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Response Posted - 10/27/2013 : 20:34:48

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Tahoe Cruiser
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by TakeFive
 FYI, today I bought six hex bolts to replace my current Phillips bolts. 5/16"x1.5", 18 thread pitch. I am hoping they will be easier to tighten, and will allow doing so without removing the rudder.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Am not not sure you will be able to replace the center bolt as it is right behind the pintle. Rudder only takes a minute to remove which makes it a lot easier to deal with.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I remove the rudder for storage every winter. That's when I plan to do the replacement.

After the replacement, I expect midseason tightening to be much easier, because it looks like you can get to the bolt with a wrench without removing the rudder. And if not, at least I can get better leverage on the other two. The Phillips heads are so big that my screwdrivers engage them very poorly.

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Ape-X
Admiral

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662 Posts

Response Posted - 10/28/2013 : 04:41:00

Take Five, what about lock (double) nuts on the backside to avoid the need for tightening again altogether? Seems like bolts should not be coming loose unless the substrate is compressing. Is the 250 solid f/g in the transom still?

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TakeFive
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Response Posted - 10/28/2013 : 05:21:44

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Ape-X
 Take Five, what about lock (double) nuts on the backside to avoid the need for tightening again altogether? Seems like bolts should not be coming loose unless the substrate is compressing. Is the 250 solid f/g in the transom still?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
There are lock nuts on the backside, up against the backing plate.

The bolts did not come loose. The butyl tape bed compressed a bit during the season. This is normal, and easily addressed by continuing to tighten through the sailing season. Which is why I want the hex heads so I can easily reach them without removing the rudder.

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