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Third battery devoted only to the outboard

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RAG Sailor
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USA
144 Posts

Initially Posted - 09/20/2013 : 21:09:27

The broker from whom I bought my 81 Cat wants to install a third battery in the aft compartment in the berth behind the stairs. This will be exclusively for starting the motor. In order to fit it in with out tipping it over he wants to notch the top of the opening so the terminals will fit. I am thinking that I am better off running wire to the duel batteries under the settee on the starboard side for this purpose and not using the exclusive battery. This way when I am motoring I am charging these batteries. When I am at my slip the twin batteries are serviced by a trickle charger, not so the outboard battery. Any thoughts or advice?

Good to be back at sea!

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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3444 Posts

Response Posted - 09/20/2013 : 21:49:38

You don't need 3 batteries if one is just for starting a small outboard. I question this broker's integrity. Sounds like a snake oil salesman. Has he tried to sell a bridge in Brooklyn yet?

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RAG Sailor
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144 Posts

Response Posted - 09/21/2013 : 04:49:49

Whoa! He's a great guy! The owner said motor was electric start but he never hooked it up. The broker found this out after I bought the boat and threw in a brand new battery. Now he is offering to install it permanently (as described) as it is temporarily tied down in the aft and hooked to the engine.

Edited by - on

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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1511 Posts

Response Posted - 09/21/2013 : 06:19:27

You really won't need a third battery dedicated to the outboard. Using a "starting battery" might be needed on power boats with large cranking needs, but our little outboards are not that power hungry. And in most cases the outboard can be pull started if you run your batteries down.

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pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 09/21/2013 : 06:37:00

The Broker is clueless. As is typical they only know inboards. There is absolutely no reason to add a battery. Tell him you have this handled and to simply provide you with enough ANCOR tinned marine wire 14 gauge to reach to the wires coming out of the motor and to your batteries. You can put a simple terminal strip someplace easy between the ob and the batteries and connect the wires there. There is a lot of room between the transom and the end of the quarterberth that you can see when you lift out the end panel at the back of the quarterberth.
The longer you read this forum the more you will realize that specific C-25 knowledge here is more valuable than the best intentions of "the guy" at you local venue.

Edited by - pastmember on 09/21/2013 07:36:19

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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4304 Posts

Response Posted - 09/21/2013 : 06:59:18

I agree with all above. In addition, our boats already squat in the rear slowing the boat down, you don't need another 70 pounds behind the keel.

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clark1962
Deckhand

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USA
18 Posts

Response Posted - 09/22/2013 : 09:09:29

I kind of like a dedicated battery for the motor. I have drained the house batteries while on the hook before without realizing it. Kids love power. I keep the starting battery in the dumpster

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pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 09/22/2013 : 09:21:32

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by clark1962
 I kind of like a dedicated battery for the motor. I have drained the house batteries while on the hook before without realizing it. Kids love power. I keep the starting battery in the dumpster
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Admittedly we all hate our pull cords but...

For our little boats a motorcycle battery could work as a "starting" battery.

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Sloop Smitten
Master Marine Consultant

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1181 Posts

Response Posted - 09/23/2013 : 09:37:16

The added benefit of using your cabin batteries as the starting battery is the engine will be charging them when underway. If you segregate to a stand-alone starting battery, only that battery will be charged unless you wire up your battery switch to allow all three to connect. If your motor requires you to remove the hood and wrap a pull cord around the flywheel I can see making a case fo the separate battery. If you have a Tohatsu outboard the pull cord is readily accessible and the engine starts easily with it. With that engine the starter is more of a convenience then a necessity.

Edited by - Sloop Smitten on 09/23/2013 09:37:39

RAG Sailor
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USA
144 Posts

Response Posted - 09/23/2013 : 13:52:36

Thanks for your feedback. Here's the whole story...She's powered with a Mercury 9.9 w/electric start. The pull cord is right there too. The previous owner never bothered to hook up a battery because the pull cord was so easy (brand new engine, bought back in May 2013). As I said before, since the broker realized that it was not hooked up but he advertised that it was an electric start he felt compelled (see, he's no "snake") to make sure that it was hooked up. When I went out to the boat to meet my surveyor, in order for him to do a complete job (in and out of water), the broker had to be there too to operate the boat. He had brought along the third new battery but before he temporarily installed it (tied it down just outside of the quarter berth rear compartment)he looked to see if a line had been run to the twin batteries on the starboard side of the cabin. There was a line (from another previous owner) but he felt it was not the right gauge to run the length. All three of us discussed the pros & cons of having a separate (third) battery. Me having the least amount of experience went with their suggestion and used a third battery. What bothered me was in order to fit the battery in the aft compartment, the opening had to be notched since the battery couldn't be tipped over to get it inside. That was the part that really bothered me. I didn't want any modifications done (cutting my new baby) if it wasn't necessary. In the meantime I joined the Catalina IA and opened the question up to the forum. Now y'all know the whole story.

I like the idea of running a wire to a block and then hooking it up to the twin batteries. Since the lake is just under 2 hour drive I can't be there every weekend. This way my trickle charger will maintain them when I'm not there and the engine will do the rest when I am under way. Anyone know a good solar trickle charger that can handle the twins? Any more suggestions for the layout to hook up to the twin batteries? Again, thank you everyone!!

Edited by - on

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 09/23/2013 : 14:19:38

Remember, ANCOR tinned marine wire. It will not corrode up the wire under the jacket. Each strand of wire is tinned the entire length of the wire. Of course any wire will work but it is nice to use the right stuff when you have a chance.

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Davy J
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1511 Posts

Response Posted - 09/23/2013 : 14:36:07

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Anyone know a good solar trickle charger that can handle the twins?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I picked up a 5 watt solar panel at Wally World for 50.00. It has done a fantastic job at keeping the batteries charged up.

[url="http://www.walmart.com/ip/5W-Solar-Panel-for-All-Weather/19801093"]Wally World 5w Solar Panel[/url]

Edited by - on

Sloop Smitten
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1181 Posts

Response Posted - 09/23/2013 : 15:16:35

[url="http://www.harborfreight.com/15-watt-12-volt-solar-panel-96418.html"]15 Watt, 12 Volt Solar Panel[/url]

Edited by - on

RAG Sailor
Navigator

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USA
144 Posts

Response Posted - 10/28/2013 : 16:52:30

Okay, so the third battery has been eliminated and a 6 gauge line was run directly to battery one. The battery selector was dialed to battery one when I was motoring out of the marina. I noticed that the volt meter was registering 14V (the max it could show). Before the outboard was hooked to the house battery, #1 & #2 always showed around 12.5V-13V. The outboard definitely has an alternator (verified that with Mercury). So, a)am I producing too much charge?; b)if so, how harmful is this?; c)is there a way to reduce the charge or don't worry about as long as I am not blowing any circuits or bulbs?

Spent 3-1/2 hours out on Saturday (only third time out with full sails). Tailed my club's Pumpkin Regatta race. Absolutely love being a C25 owner. Thanks for your help on this one!

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 10/28/2013 : 17:03:31

Charging at 14VDC is fine. Take a read through [url="http://www.evdl.org/pages/hartcharge.html"]here[/url] for more information on battery charging. The paragraph you're probably most interested is the third one down.

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CarbonSink62
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USA
208 Posts

Response Posted - 10/29/2013 : 15:12:50

FYI - I have a third battery devoted to the outboard

The boat came with one battery (G24) and I added second (G27) that I had laying around. The first year, I had the eng batt wired directly to the engine and the house batt straight to the panel. They were 2 separate systems with no cross connect possible without tools. (House batt charged w/ solar cell)

When I wanted to replace my house battery, I was going to go with a G32, but I decided to use 2 G24s. More power overall and less dollars per amp/hour. Frankly, I also wanted the weight because they were going under the V berth to counter the weight of the new 4 stroke. I also moved the engine batt to just aft of the holding tank to get it further forward.

The big job was the rewire of the whole system with 8g (tinned) cables (crimped for free at West Marine):
New batt selector off-1-2-both
Engine wired directly to batt 1
Solar wired directly to batt (bank) 2

The selector just decides where the panel gets power; normally, it is batt 2 (the engine and batt 1 do their own thing). If batt 2 is down, I use 'both' and run the engine to charge all 3. If batt 1 is down, I use 'both' and batt 2 starts the engine (and boy, does it!).

As a coastal cruiser I really like having two batteries and a selector. If things start to go wrong, I have another battery to run the VHF.

Ken

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