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Heave to with a 150

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Captmorgan
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USA
220 Posts

Initially Posted - 09/28/2013 : 18:28:58

OK I am practing various sailing manuevers today to get better , we were practicing man over board (with a float not people) and I thought I would go into heave too at the end.

The wind was at 12 knots.
I came to the conclusion that I cant go into heave to with the 150 genoa out and my tiny rudder opposing it. I just got spun around even when try to counter the force of the jib with the rudder.

do you find you need to retract the genoa and furl it to like a 100 or 75 befor you try Irons. What is the best technique to do this.

John

"The Gal-Way" 1985 SR/SK Barnegat Bay, NJ

Enjoy Sailing =) Be Safe

Happy Sailing - John

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Edited by - Captmorgan on 09/28/2013 20:14:50

John Russell
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Response Posted - 09/28/2013 : 20:07:36

I have the same issue with my 135%. I've been successful to some extent if I nearly stop the boat as I make the initial tack to windward. I usually find myself furlin the Genny a bit to get her to heave-to correctly.

Edited by - on

hewebb
Admiral

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Response Posted - 09/29/2013 : 03:24:46

I have a 150 on a furler and have practiced heave to successfully in light to moderate winds. I have not yet tried in winds in the upper teens or 20's. Guess I better give it a try next time the wind gets up. The person who taught me that maneuver had a 150 up on his 26' boat.

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awetmore
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Response Posted - 09/29/2013 : 08:15:19

The Catalina 25 is a foresail driven boat, and when you have a 150% up there is way more sail area up front than off of the main. We had trouble heaving to like that as well, though I could make it work if we drew the jib in really hard.

A 110% should be small enough to do the job.

hewebb: You can't just compare boat lengths, you also need to look at the sail plan. My Pearson 28-2 (similar size genoa and main) will hove to with a 135% genoa pretty easily. I still would prefer to roll it in a bit so that the sail isn't chafing against the spreaders.

You can also try hove-to on main only, that worked well on both boats for me.

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cshaw
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Response Posted - 09/29/2013 : 12:51:20

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Captmorgan
 
I came to the conclusion that I cant go into heave to with the 150 genoa out and my tiny rudder opposing it. I just got spun around even when try to counter the force of the jib with the rudder.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

John,

I heave to with my 155 all the time, and do it in any winds that I can carry it in. When I am short handed I raise the 155 and heave to, and in the lee of the 155 is where I hoist the main. Over about 15-18 the 155 way overpowers the boat, so I drop to my 140, and it also easily allows heaving to. My 130 is used in the 20's, and in the mid 20's I drop to my 110. I have hove to in gale force winds off the coast of Santa Barbara using the 110. If I am sailing solo, all those wind speeds are lowered for using the smaller sails.

The boat heaves to better for me if I ease out the jib sheet a bit and re-cleat it before I come about and put the jib aback. The main needs to be 100% luffed, and the tiller stays lashed down to keep trying to bring the bow up into the wind, while the backed jib blows it down off the wind. The boat balances quite nicely doing that, with or without the main up.....

The biggest thing to adjust is to make sure the jib is not over trimmed. Most folks have it still sheeted in too much when it is aback, and thats where the jib overpowers the rudder (the rudder has very little authority when you do not have much steerage-way.)

The rudder is really not doing too much since the boat is pretty much sitting almost dead in the water. Its only when the bow starts to come down does the rudder keep the bow up into the wind.

I am constantly amazed at how the boat goes from a very dynamic motion and situation, to something that is quiet and docile while hove to, and how few sailors practice heaving to since it is such a useful capability (and VERY useful from a safety standpoint!) So Congrats to you for practicing doing it!!

Chuck

Edited by - on

Captmorgan
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220 Posts

Response Posted - 09/29/2013 : 18:37:27

Thanks Chuck. Can you describe the CAR position on the jib and how tighty or loosely you sheet the jib. I do have a furled jib so I could reduce it but Ill try it again with the 150. just describe how I should try to sheet it.

Also I have a side sort of related question. My main sheet seems short. However, on a down wind sail I can let it out enough that it would be against the spreader. But I can not let it out more than 60 degrees ( im estimating and then the figure eight knot is in the cleat. Ho much spare sheet should you have.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by cshaw
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Captmorgan
 
I came to the conclusion that I cant go into heave to with the 150 genoa out and my tiny rudder opposing it. I just got spun around even when try to counter the force of the jib with the rudder.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

John,

I heave to with my 155 all the time, and do it in any winds that I can carry it in. When I am short handed I raise the 155 and heave to, and in the lee of the 155 is where I hoist the main. Over about 15-18 the 155 way overpowers the boat, so I drop to my 140, and it also easily allows heaving to. My 130 is used in the 20's, and in the mid 20's I drop to my 110. I have hove to in gale force winds off the coast of Santa Barbara using the 110. If I am sailing solo, all those wind speeds are lowered for using the smaller sails.

The boat heaves to better for me if I ease out the jib sheet a bit and re-cleat it before I come about and put the jib aback. The main needs to be 100% luffed, and the tiller stays lashed down to keep trying to bring the bow up into the wind, while the backed jib blows it down off the wind. The boat balances quite nicely doing that, with or without the main up.....

The biggest thing to adjust is to make sure the jib is not over trimmed. Most folks have it still sheeted in too much when it is aback, and thats where the jib overpowers the rudder (the rudder has very little authority when you do not have much steerage-way.)

The rudder is really not doing too much since the boat is pretty much sitting almost dead in the water. Its only when the bow starts to come down does the rudder keep the bow up into the wind.

I am constantly amazed at how the boat goes from a very dynamic motion and situation, to something that is quiet and docile while hove to, and how few sailors practice heaving to since it is such a useful capability (and VERY useful from a safety standpoint!) So Congrats to you for practicing doing it!!

Chuck

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Edited by - on

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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5371 Posts

Response Posted - 09/29/2013 : 18:56:18

I have a 135 and I cannot unfurl it all the way to heave to. If I do, I will come about on a gybe and begin sailing downwind. I need to furl the jib so that it's just shy of the forward lower stays.
I don't quite know what I'd do with a full 150 genoa.
Once I get her balanced (pointing upwind, sheeted in, rudder tied off), the boat sits quietly and securely, sliding downwind around 1 kt. The waves are flattened out and made slick by the boat sideslipping.
Once hove to, I can generally grab a bite or brew a cup of coffee provided I have plenty of sea room and am not near a lee shore.

Edited by - Voyager on 09/29/2013 19:04:04

cshaw
Captain

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460 Posts

Response Posted - 09/30/2013 : 07:58:11

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Captmorgan
 Thanks Chuck. Can you describe the CAR position on the jib and how tighty or loosely you sheet the jib. I do have a furled jib so I could reduce it but Ill try it again with the 150. just describe how I should try to sheet it.

Also I have a side sort of related question. My main sheet seems short. However, on a down wind sail I can let it out enough that it would be against the spreader.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I set my jib leads based on the wind speed and the telltales and how much chop. Baseline is to get all the telltales (that are a little distance behind the luff) to all break at the same time (I have 3 sets: low, middle and high). Then, if you have chop and need more power, move the lead forward a bit. If its blowing harder but the water is still relatively smooth, move the lead aft of the baseline to allow pointing higher and dumping air out of the upper part of he sail via the increased leech twist. Experiment with how much movement works and feels best for you. The more you move from your baseline position, the more you use the middle telltales than the top or bottom.

You also play the backstay adjuster as the wind changes. if more power is needed, ease off the backstay tension. Over powered, tighten up the tension (which will also allow you to point better. I see (and beat) lots of folks that try to point high and get things too flat in a chop. The more you sail your boat you will find the sweet spot for tension and fairleads to balance power vs pointing to avoid making too much leeway.

If your boom can get out to just barely touch the aft lower shrouds ( actually better to stop just short of touching the shrouds to avoid damaging the boom in a high wind jibe, and also potentially overloading the shroud), thats as far out as you want it to go.

Rather than making the mainsheet longer ($$'s), try attaching the upper fiddle block on the mainsheet to a 2-3ft long pendant that then attaches to the boom. When the mainsheet is fully tensioned, the two blocks (upper and lower) should still be a foot or more apart to avoid two-blocking your system.

Chuck

Edited by - on

cshaw
Captain

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Response Posted - 09/30/2013 : 08:01:27

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Voyager
 I have a 135 and I cannot unfurl it all the way to heave to. If I do, I will come about on a gybe and begin sailing downwind.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Try easing out the jib sheet a bit more before putting the boat about and backing the jib. That is usually what is required with a bigger jib to keep from the bow blowing down and gybing. You can also slightly pull in the luffing main to help the rudder keep the bow up into the wind more, just don't over tension it.

Chuck

Edited by - on

Voyager
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Response Posted - 09/30/2013 : 17:05:23

Chuck - You are the SAIL HANDLER!!!! For you, method. For me, magic. I might have to make a trip to Fla this winter to learn the craft.

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cshaw
Captain

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460 Posts

Response Posted - 10/01/2013 : 16:25:01

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Voyager
 Chuck - You are the SAIL HANDLER!!!! For you, method. For me, magic. I might have to make a trip to Fla this winter to learn the craft.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Well, thanks for the kind words, but like anything else, the more you do it, the more second nature it gets.

A forum like this is great for asking questions and finding out what others know and have experienced.

Come on down!! Florida winters are NICE!!

Chuck

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