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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Lowering the mast

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jduck00
Captain

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USA
313 Posts

Initially Posted - 10/03/2013 : 20:07:09

I know its been covered many times over. Given the advice and lessons learned from the forum, I built an a-frame for about $20 and lower the mast single handed.

Time for a wind vane and lazy jacks.

Jeremy Duck
The Lucky Duck
1980 SKSR Hull # 1850

Edited by - on

jduck00
Captain

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313 Posts

Response Posted - 10/03/2013 : 20:09:46

http://www.flickr.com/photos/31535935@N08/10078839913/

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WesAllen
Navigator

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USA
222 Posts

Response Posted - 10/03/2013 : 20:44:08

And a picture is worth a thousand words (more or less)

Nice set up

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Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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1511 Posts

Response Posted - 10/04/2013 : 06:24:51

Nice work. I am going to construct a new a-frame soon, my current one is about nine years old and getting a little rusty. I am going to try to video or photo document it so that folks can see how easy it really is.

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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4593 Posts

Response Posted - 10/04/2013 : 08:58:04

Good job, Jeremy.

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upnorth-mn
Deckhand

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16 Posts

Response Posted - 10/04/2013 : 09:19:47

Is there some flaw in this mast lowering technique. Seems rather elegant to me with the benefit of not having an A frame I need to store in my garage.

Mast RaiseLower - Here is a detailed explanation and drawing of Brian Smith's technique of raising and lowering the mast. http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/tech/tech25/bsmast.asp

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Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 10/04/2013 : 10:01:54

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Is there some flaw in this mast lowering technique.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
There are a few different methods used to lower the mast. I have never lowered it to the bow like that. However, the a-frame method I use incorporates the forward lower shrouds and prevents the mast from swinging side to side. And, in my case, the extra jib halyard acts as an aid, in that the mast cannot come down without it being loosened from the cockpit.

Edited by - on

jduck00
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313 Posts

Response Posted - 10/04/2013 : 20:00:27

Here's a few pictures of the a-frame.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/31535935@N08/sets/72157636199396913/

I thought about trying to use the boom and lower it to the front. I've taken the mast up about 4 times now. Every time, side to side motion as been a problem. Seems like the wind is always blowing the wrong way. I just don't trust the boom not to kick to the side when its put under pressure during lift or lower.

Edited by - on

BCG-Woodbury
Mainsheet Editor

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396 Posts

Response Posted - 10/04/2013 : 20:43:52

My setup is similar to Brian's except I step the mast from the stern. I have a roller furler to deal with and doing it that way seems better. I rebuilt the gin pole to have a larger "foot" on the mast to spread the load. All went well this year although I had unexpected stretch in the halyards as I switched them to lines from wire. I was thinking about adding a dedicated cable to the masthead just to do this task. The stern support has a trailer roller on the top to help position the mast easier. I only use the setup twice a year so weight and size isn't an issue (I don't store the gear in the boat).

Regards,

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

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5404 Posts

Response Posted - 10/05/2013 : 05:30:37

This is the system that is on my development list.
[url="https://www.catalina-capri-25s.net/cgi-local/MBR_gallery.cgi?Album+1000+66"]

[/url]

Paul

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pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 10/05/2013 : 07:21:16

If you have three friends all this equipment is silly, you just lower the mast by hand. It is a far smaller deal than many C 25 owners make it out to be. I think those of us who pull our own boats at the end of the season are far more comfortable with things like this. If you sail where the boat stays in the water for several years at a time and are told by marina staff it is dangerous then you will tend to believe them. If you are trailering and do not have three friends and need to raise your mast in a strange location then by all means build a rig so you are independent, other than that you should get your friends together and put the stick up and down three times for practice so you can see the only issue is how to keep shrouds from catching on something. That is why you want three friends, it only takes three people to handle the mast but you want a gopher standing by to deal with anything like putting throwable cushions where they need to be to protect your cabin top and the mast against the rails where it will rest.
Do not be afraid of your boat, it is a little one.
I used to use a mast up while still on the trailer but I usually raised and lowered my mast in the water. Big shots for detail. (BTW I am down 100 pounds from this photo, I am so vain.)

Edited by - pastmember on 10/07/2013 11:34:47

Sloop Smitten
Master Marine Consultant

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1181 Posts

Response Posted - 10/05/2013 : 10:22:49

The biggest concern I would have using the boom to lower the mast would be attachment of the mainsheet to the tang at the end of the
boom and the extreme amount of tension experienced at that point. I believe the tang is held on with a single 5/16" screw and the tang
is relatively light sheet metal. Especially when raising the mast the pull on the tang would be enormous. I am wondering if an
alternative method is used to attach the mainsheet tackle to the end of the boom?

Edited by - on

BCG-Woodbury
Mainsheet Editor

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USA
396 Posts

Response Posted - 10/06/2013 : 08:44:51

I use the same setup that Paul showed except I have the Block at the end of the ginpole and I tie off to the two bow cleats. Next year I'm thinking about putting two lines on the winch as a backup. If the winch line fails, the mast could come crashing down and do some serious damage. I also use the halyards to the end of the ginpole as the fixed line but I may change that to a dedicated cable. I raise the ginpole high on the mast because I figured it would reduce the weight of the lift.

Regards,

Edited by - on

glen
Captain

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359 Posts

Response Posted - 10/07/2013 : 11:07:28

Frank I remember when my wife and I did it ourselves. Back then I could just grab the D—thing and lift it myself. My wife would as you noted free the shrouds from whatever grabbed them, and help guide the mast down. I have matured now and have my own crazy contraption. The system I use now is like Paul’s, but I have a bracket I mount on the mast about 4’ up from the deck. This bracket holds both the gin pole and winch. Like Brian I have a block at the end of the pole. So the line goes from the winch through the block and down to the bow stem. This system allows me to stand up, and hold onto the mast as I crank the winch. I should also note that the time it takes to set this up is about equal to the time it used to take to complete the entire stepping process.
Here is my question>>>>>> whether I do it by hand or using a winch, my biggest issue is keeping the mast from falling athwart ship. So for the ones using the “A” frame method, does the conduit supports prevent any side to side motion, or is that still a challenge?
PS: This thread has for some reason streached out across my monitor screen, making it necessary to use the scrool bar to read each line?????????????

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pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 10/07/2013 : 11:37:30

That was my fault. When I first post photos I post them large because people find details about things that cannot be seen in a small photo like I am using now.

A frames are to stop side sway. Hunter260s uses a combination of permanent A frame rods and a removable gin pole.

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Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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1511 Posts

Response Posted - 10/07/2013 : 11:47:24

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">So for the ones using the “A” frame method, does the conduit supports prevent any side to side motion,<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
My a-frame has super-secret....

add-on "devices" that keep the mast from swaying back and forth.
Top-secret photos of the "device".....

Seriously though, the forward lower shrouds attach to the short tangs. Because of that, the mast can only move about 18" from side to side.

Edited by - Davy J on 10/07/2013 11:54:47

Lee Panza
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465 Posts

Response Posted - 10/07/2013 : 21:25:55

Any discussion of mast lowering/raising should at least mention alternatives, particularly for those who're searching for ideas in the future and their search turns up this thread. If someone expects to be lowering/raising more frequently than about once a year they might be well advised to consider a built-in solution instead of having to keep those long poles handy. Modifying the upper shrouds to put fixed rings in line with the mast pivot bolt allows the upper shrouds to maintain tension to keep the mast from flopping off to the side. for a gin pole I use my whisker pole between the sliding eye on the mast and the furler drum (it would be much easier without the furler).

Edited by - on

Ape-X
Admiral

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USA
662 Posts

Response Posted - 10/08/2013 : 03:53:36

Lee, yours is likely one of the prettiest systems. Well executed! It really is about making sure the pivot of the shroud is in plane with the mast step. Do you use just the upper, removing both lowers before dropping?

We cheat and use a jib crane: Keeping the lower rears attached and dropping back (due to furling extrusion)

CAUTION: When raising, make sure the turnbuckles and shrouds are not tangled and NOT-TWISTED. You can easily ruin the toggles as i learned this year. :O)

Edited by - on

dasreboot
Admiral

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804 Posts

Response Posted - 10/08/2013 : 03:57:34

I use the permanent solution described in the tech tips as a bridge rig. Instead of cable I use stainless steel bar I got off ebay. I used a norseman fitting to raise the upper shroud turnbuckle. now the shrouds hold the tension from side to side. I use ratchet straps to hold the shrouds back. also use the straps to keep my boom in line as the gin pole.

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wegman
1st Mate

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USA
35 Posts

Response Posted - 10/16/2013 : 09:14:27

Nice A-frame, Jeremy. Please tell me about the conduit you used: length, material, wall thickness, designation or any other relevant information.

Thanks!

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GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4303 Posts

Response Posted - 10/16/2013 : 17:17:07

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Davy J
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">So for the ones using the “A” frame method, does the conduit supports prevent any side to side motion,<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
My a-frame has super-secret....

add-on "devices" that keep the mast from swaying back and forth.
Top-secret photos of the "device".....

Seriously though, the forward lower shrouds attach to the short tangs. Because of that, the mast can only move about 18" from side to side.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

This is the setup I use and the tangs hold the mast stable. I've dropped mine twice solo and both times I had a 10 knot 90 degree crosswind. No problem at all.

I think a lot of people think the actual process of dropping the mast takes a long time. Once you get everything set up it shouldn't take more than 30 seconds on a slow day to get the mast down where you can set it in the cradle. I probably get mine down in 15 - 20 seconds. The faster (within reason) you drop it the less time there is for the wind to move it around and with Davy J's setup there's even less time that the shrouds are loose.

I wait for a lull in the wind and then quickly drop it.

Edited by - on

Lee Panza
Captain

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465 Posts

Response Posted - 10/17/2013 : 21:23:48

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Ape-X
 Lee...Do you use just the upper, removing both lowers before dropping?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
 
Sorry about the delay, Michael; I hadn't even noticed that this thread had extended (been pretty busy lately).

When I drop the mast just to work on it I leave the aft lowers alone and just disconnect the fwd lowers. If I'm shipping the mast for travel, or (obviously) if I'm removing it to work on it at home, then the aft lowers are disconnected after it's down.

By the way, when the mast is dropped in the aft direction it "lands" on the pushpit at about the spreader height. You'll want some kind of roller to be able to walk the bottom of the mast forward after unbolting from the tabernacle (or to roll it off onto the dock). If you're interested here's a link to a few more pictures of the raising process (like so many other uncompleted tasks, I haven't gotten around to organizing the website, but the pictures are there to share):

http://panza.smugmug.com/MYSAILBOAT/The-Boat-Renovation/4-28-2012/22687682_wtKVQ3

Edited by - on

Sloop Smitten
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 10/18/2013 : 07:38:13

I thought the conventional wisdom was if you lowered the mast to the pushpit, without disconnecting the base of the mast, it would crush the cabin top as the pushpit is lower than the cabin top. Hence the need for the cradle (or roller) to hold the mast while the base is disconnected. The cradle in that sense is more of a necessity than an aid unless you have someone to support the mast while the base is disconnected.

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pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 10/18/2013 : 09:07:09

Nope, the slots in the tabernacle allow the mast foot to rise so you can have a throwable PFD on the cabin top to protect the fiberglass. After the mast is down everyone repositions so they can handle the "kick up" that will happen as a result of the leverage generated by the mast hanging so far past the push pit. When learning it is nice to have one person pushing down on the foot while another pulls the mast bolt. Later one person will do it.

Note in my photos above that even with my Mast-Up I have a throwable at my feet.

Edited by - pastmember on 10/18/2013 09:09:24

Jan Briede
Navigator

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USA
162 Posts

Response Posted - 10/18/2013 : 18:16:13

I built my A-frame from some left over 2X4 lumber and it worked great. It may be cluncky and not as elegant but two persons can easily lower and raise the mast. My main issue was getting the bolt through the mast step.

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