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GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4304 Posts

Initially Posted - 10/20/2013 : 20:40:01

Friday night I spent the night on the boat. Increasing rain chances during the night with a front coming through after midnight. A great night to spend some time alone.

Got down to the boat after work and noticed the slip to the North of mine was empty with no signs the boat was coming back (the boat had only been around about 3 months).

The rain and front came as predicted. Sometime a little after 3 am I was laying there 1/2 awake listening to the rain and heard an odd sound that sounded like a boat directly behind my boat. Thinking this was odd due to the time and weather I looked out through the ventilation slot in my hatch boards and didn't see anything. Slid the curtains open a little to see if I saw anything in the slip next to me.

Surprisingly I see a small boat with 1 person and no lights tying up to the center dock cleat. Wondering what was going on I kept an eye on this guy who was dressed in what appeared to be black clothing or rain suit for what seemed like 10 minutes as he moved things around in the boat (sounded like a tool box), set things up on the dock, put them back in the boat, and didn't seem to be too concerned about making any noise. Remember this is a little after 3 am, raining, with no lights, and dark clothing on.

The whole time this is going on I'm trying to be dead quiet while my heart is beating about 100 mph.

I looked away for a second and when I looked back the guy is gone. A few seconds later I see the guys shadow coming down the finger pier between Dolivaw's boat and mine. By now I'm cr$#ping in my pants. I'm looking out the hatch board slot again and the guy is looking in the cockpit of Dolivaw's boat and mine and I'm trying to figure out what I'm going to do if he steps on my boat. I'm really glad I decided long ago to keep my lifelines and bimini strap closed at night. Friday night Dolivaw's lifelines were open and anyone could just step on his boat.

At the closest point this guy was maybe 6 or 7 feet from me and I don't know if this guy is armed or what his intentions are. At the time I thought he was looking to steal an outboard motor (it was between my '89 Suzuki or Dolivaw's 1 or 2 year old Tohatsu).

The flare gun is where I can reach it but to get it out of the opened plastic package it's going to make a lot of noise which I didn't want to do so I just stood there as quietly as possible.

Luckily the guy walked away (actually ended up disappearing for several minutes). At this point I moved as slowly and quietly as possible while getting my phone and trying not to rock the boat. Got my head and phone under a pillow and dial 911 so the guy can't see the light from the phone or hear me talking.

After getting shuffled around to a different dispatcher I finally get in touch with a guy who apparently doesn't know what a marina or a boat dock is as I had to explain both to him (while still cr$#ping in my pants).

Just as I'm getting off the phone with the 911 person I hear the guys motor start up. I don't know if he heard me talking, got what he was looking for, or just decided to move on. Looking out the side window I see him backing out of the slip. As soon as he heads down the fairway I decide it's time for me to get the heck out of the boat and up on shore.

For some reason I decide to flip all the nav lights on. For whatever reason the only one that came on is the deck light. No other lights came on (later on when things calmed down I tried the lights again and they all came on). I decided real quick turning the lights on might not be the smartest thing to do so I flipped them all off, exited the cabin, put in the hatch boards, and headed to shore. Apparently the guy didn't see my light as he kept idling away.

As I get to shore I have to walk underneath a lighted structure that supports the power transformers for my dock. I heard a sound to my left and look over to see this guy in his unlit aluminum boat slowly cruising along another fairway right behind a bunch of boats in our size range. Apparently he saw me as I was walking through the light because he immediately turned around and sped up slightly until he hit the end of the fairway and then he opened it up. For whatever reason he turned and ran inside the marina at full throttle instead of going straight out into the lake. Again, with no lights whatsoever!

I stayed up in the parking lot wondering when the heck the cops were going to show up. About 5 minutes later the cop shows up. Obviously by then the guy was long gone but the cop took my statement and looked around even walking all the docks on my side of the marina and then drove to the other side and said he would check it out. Never heard back from him.

Needless to say I spent the next 2 hours sitting in my truck on shore until the sun came up.

This incident changes my entire thought process on staying on the boat. I've never felt a need to worry before Friday night. There's never been any weird stuff that I was aware of in the past.

Since I have shore power the 1st thing I'm going to change is I will leave my deck lights and possibly my running lights on all night. I will have my flare gun out, loaded, and where I can reach it without moving. I'm also probably going to change slips to get farther into the marina (I'm on the 1st fairway near the edge of the marina) and hopefully with boats on both sides. Also I will make sure my cell phone is fully charged because in this case the battery was just about dead.

Basically I will be better prepared for a situation like this in the future.

After thinking about it for a couple of days I think the guy was more likely looking for power cables and/or electronics. It would be hard for one guy to wrestle a 80 - 100 pound outboard into an aluminum boat at night in the rain. The cop thought so too.

When I asked the cop if there had been any outboard thefts he replied there had been no problems with motors but a few shore cables had been stolen recently. The marina office confirmed the shore power cable thefts. I always roll mine up and store it in the cabin although it was out and lying along the finger pier on Friday night. It would have been an easy theft. In this particular case stealing electronics or shore cables makes more sense than an outboard.

The cop thought it was unlikely the guy was armed but agreed you never know. In this situation I was trapped in the boat and did not want to get in a fight with a guy that appeared to be bigger than me. Especially with water on 3 sides.

It's amazing how one can feel so trapped and isolated from help despite being maybe 150' from the head of the dock.

Association Member

GaryB
Andiamo
'89 SR/WK #5862
Kemah,TX

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 10/20/2013 : 21:09:41

Glad to hear you're OK. I'm not sure what I might have done differently in that situation.

I've generally got a firearm with me when I'm on the boat (or anywhere else), but I'd have a hard time confronting someone who, while obviously up to no good, wasn't on my boat or hadn't done anything to put me or mine in danger (yet). You'd also hate to spook them if there's a chance the cops could nab them somehow. However, unless it was some sort of waterborne response, it's unlikely they could get them, unless the cops managed to get between them and their boat.

Hopefully you were able to give them a decent description of the guy to work with, since it's unlikely he's going to stop doing whatever he was doing.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4304 Posts

Response Posted - 10/20/2013 : 21:43:44

Unfortunately, other than the silhouette of a guy dressed in dark clothes there wasn't much of a description to give. It was really too dark to see any distinguishing features. All I could really tell the cop was it was an aluminum boat (based on the sounds of metal boxes being banged around in the boat) about 10' or 12' long. Definitely not a dinghy. It was dark colored, maybe camo but could not really tell.

I THINK if the guy had stepped on my boat and I had the flare gun loaded I THINK I would have "lit" him up and been legal to do so (I think). I can honestly say that Friday night I was in fear of my life! It's a very surreal and weird feeling!

Since I was totally surprised by the circumstances and basically unarmed, isolated, trapped, and not knowing whether he had a gun or not I thought it better to let the guy take whatever he wanted than to confront him.

The fact the guy kept trolling around after leaving my dock tells me he did not see me turn on my light (which was stupid on my part). I hope he didn't see the light as I'm concerned about retaliation since I called the cops although since he got away maybe it wont matter.

Edited by - GaryB on 10/20/2013 21:44:54

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1511 Posts

Response Posted - 10/21/2013 : 05:20:11

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Since I was totally surprised by the circumstances and basically unarmed, isolated, trapped, and not knowing whether he had a gun or not I thought it better to let the guy take whatever he wanted than to confront him.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
The wife and I both have CWPs. We both carry our weapons almost everywhere we go. However, the rule is to not confront/interact anyone, even if they are stealing someone's property. Stay out of it and try to make contact with law enforcement. In the event they personally threaten us though......

Edited by - on

TakeFive
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2272 Posts

Response Posted - 10/21/2013 : 05:42:28

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by GaryB
 ...I THINK if the guy had stepped on my boat and I had the flare gun loaded I THINK I would have "lit" him up and been legal to do so (I think)...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
As one who lived in Texas for a year, I thought it was illegal to be unarmed.

Seriously, though, you might want to think twice before using flare gun as a weapon. If the flare bounces off of the intruder and onto your boat, it could burn through whatever surface it's sitting on, down into your cabin, igniting your upholstery and perhaps burning all the way through your hull. I read something about this somewhere, but can't find it right now.

Edited by - on

redeye
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3476 Posts

Response Posted - 10/21/2013 : 05:51:56

Yepper.. not a lot of fun armed or unarmed. I usta visit a marina that had the parole board building, and a hot sheet hotel right next to it..

Anchoring out looks better all the time.

Edited by - redeye on 10/21/2013 06:03:49

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 10/21/2013 : 07:01:58

A couple years ago, I woke at about 3:00 am to hear whispers near my boat. I got up and peeked out the window, and saw about 6-7 young men on my finger pier and dock. One was knelt down, pulling the bow line on the boat docked next to mine, getting ready to board it. I opened my companionway hatch and asked, "What's going on, fellas?" One of them said "We're just looking at this boat." I said, "I know the owner, and you're not him, and I don't think he wants you looking at his boat." They walked away, and I closed my hatch and dressed quickly.

I got my camera and cellphone, got off the boat, dialed 911, and walked in the direction they went. I heard auto engines start, and knew they were in a parking lot that was down by the beach. There's only one way out of that parking lot, so I walked over to the roadway leading to it, and walked toward it. When I arrived at the parking lot, they started coming out, one-by-one, and, as they drove past me, I took a photo of their front license plate and also tried to get one of the driver, although the pictures of the drivers were obscured by the glare of the flash on their driver's side window, except for one, who's window was open. The Sheriff's deputy arrived about a half hour later. The next day, I made copies of the photos and gave them to the Deputy, and never heard a peep from the police, despite the fact that we had had repeated thefts from boats for several years.

Despite the sheriff's lack of interest in helping us deal with vandalism and thefts, the vandals and theives stayed away from our marina for about three years. Apparently the word got around that there's an old liveaboard who sleeps light and keeps an eye on the place, and they don't know whether he is armed, but he acts like he is.

Because I couldn't count on the local police to help, either with an apprehension or prosecution, I brought my .380 auto the next year, but only brought it that one year and decided not to bring it in the future, but I did buy a new, better camera.

Each of us has to make our own decisions when confronted with a situation like that, but I decided there's no way I'm going to sit there quietly in my boat while someone steals my neighbor's stuff, or my stuff. When he sees a man's head pop out of a hatch unexpectedly at 3:00 am, while he's doing something he shouldn't be doing, and when he hears a man's voice, he doesn't know whether there is a gun, or knife, or flare gun, or camera, or a Holy Bible in the man's hand, but he'd be a fool to get aggressive with him, when he might be able to just walk away.

Yesterday, I was told that an outboard motor was stolen from a young guy's boat. It's probably the next generation of theives.

Edited by - on

shnool
Former Capri-25 Tech Editor

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USA
1032 Posts

Response Posted - 10/21/2013 : 07:28:09

I have my CCWP and I know I am not the only one who does... I don't carry often at all (I see it as a hassle more than anything)....

However, at our little marina there are several first responders, and at least 1 police officer who doubles as a correction officer... I know he always carries.

With that, the dockmaster also lives at the house on the grounds, that is up on the hill and able to see the marina and whole cove... He misses NOTHING. This gives me great comfort that the boats are looked after by one or the other.

Either way, I won't say you did anything wrong at all. Sometimes confronting them gets them gone (nice Steve!)... and keeps them away. But there is that off chance, and I totally get no wanting to take that chance, that they'd be armed and you not!

I also believe in prevention. I always lock my outboard, and boat. It likely would only slow down a thief, but that might be the critical time it'd take someone to catch them in the act. I've never considered leaving lights on just to send the thieves away, but it might work!

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9080 Posts

Response Posted - 10/21/2013 : 07:32:44

As I read the account, I was thinking about what might happen if you pulled the trigger on a flare gun aimed horizontally in a marina... It would seem a likely outcome would be something (my boat, another boat, whatever) would be set on fire. On the other hand, just having an empty flare gun in your hand if you make yourself visible could have a sobering effect on the guy you're surprising.

Does your marina have lights on the dock? We just added some to the dock where I live. It probably helps that we have 10 condo units looking directly at it. A town club I once belonged to hired an overnight security guard. The cost per slip in a big marina might be worth it. Losing a shore power cable is one thing, but having people wandering around freely, as you found out, is quite another!

Edited by - on

GaryB
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USA
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Response Posted - 10/21/2013 : 08:22:57

All good information!

Davy J - Seems like not confronting someone is a good idea. If the guy got on my boat under the same conditions I would feel threatened since I was basically trapped in my cabin with no means of escape. I felt threatened Friday night!

My thoughts on leaving the lights on at night are to make sure they KNOW someone is on board. More than likely they would look for a dark part of the marina where the chances are higher no one is around. Especially since they didn't seem to be out to hurt anyone physically.

TakeFive - I am armed at home but obviously not at the boat (at least not yet). I did think about the possibility of the flare bouncing off or missing someone on my way to work this morning. My luck the flare would land next to my gas tank which I'm sure I would have left the vent open on for the 1st time ever!

Not sure what I would do if I had a weapon but I can say I can't rule out pulling the trigger if he tried to get in the cabin.

Dave - I agree completely but when you're living the moment "unexpectedly" your first thought is to defend yourself if it comes down to it using whatever you have at hand. It's only later that you think of all the "what if's"!

If I have the flare gun out it's going to be loaded. I'm not going to take the chance of flashing an empty flare gun at someone who might have a loaded real gun. Besides, the guy is going to have to be almost right on top of me before I would pull the trigger so the odds of missing would be slim but the odds of bouncing off would be high. You can only hope and pray the higher power of your choice is with you in that situation.

The marina has lights on the power pedestals but they are not bright enough to give these old eyes a chance of seeing any details. Especially looking through the smoked lenses of the window or at someone on the end of a finger dock.

I've think I'm finally about finished working my way through this whole ordeal and have come to the conclusion I handled it about as well as I could under the circumstances.

I've also come to the conclusion that the bottom line is, if you pull the trigger on anything that could be construed as a weapon you are guaranteeing youself a long, probably expensive, hassle with the legal system. There's also the possibility of going to jail if you didn't follow the letter of the law to the T.

Not to mention the emotional consequences you would have to deal with the rest of your life if you ended the guys life!!!

Would it have been appropriate for me to call the Coasties on the VHF since I was in the marina? The guy was running around without any lights! Would a Mayday be appropriate since to me I was in an emergency situation with a possible life threatening situation?

Have to say it would be cool to see the helicopters with FLIR and/or the boats with Night Vision goggles swoop in on the marina in an attempt to catch this guy although probably a bit of an overkill for a guy stealing whatever, but would be good practice on a cool, rainy night.

Edited by - GaryB on 10/21/2013 08:25:52

pastmember
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Response Posted - 10/21/2013 : 08:24:04

I have not had this issue at my boat but I have in my neighborhood and I have simply fired off the flash of a camera several times and they go away. I would probably have done the same on my boat and would like to think I would crank up the outside stereo speakers too. Light and noise are pretty good deterrents, they do not know who else is around either.

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 10/21/2013 : 09:12:13

Makes me want to install one of these
[url="http://dx.com/p/100db-alarm-siren-with-blue-strobe-flashing-light-for-home-security-system-blue-white-dc-12v-118859"]

[/url]

And a pair of ear muffs!

Paul

Edited by - britinusa on 10/21/2013 09:42:12

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9080 Posts

Response Posted - 10/21/2013 : 10:17:20

A 1-million-candle beam in the face would probably be pretty disorienting and disabling in the dark--one flash of that and the guy might end up falling off the dock! You don't want to do that through a window--it'll get you too. If he does get back into his boat, you could keep it on him as he exits the marina. He probably wouldn't come back any time soon.

When I lived in a somewhat more questionable place, I used to leave a light and a radio (tuned to a news station) on when I wasn't home at night. It doesn't take much to make a place seem inhabited.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4304 Posts

Response Posted - 10/21/2013 : 11:17:50

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by pastmember
 I have not had this issue at my boat but I have in my neighborhood and I have simply fired off the flash of a camera several times and they go away. I would probably have done the same on my boat and would like to think I would crank up the outside stereo speakers too. Light and noise are pretty good deterrents, they do not know who else is around either.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Good point! I probalby should have mad esome noise when the guy 1st pulled up.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
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Response Posted - 10/21/2013 : 11:20:01

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by britinusa
 Makes me want to install one of these
[url="http://dx.com/p/100db-alarm-siren-with-blue-strobe-flashing-light-for-home-security-system-blue-white-dc-12v-118859"]

[/url]

And a pair of ear muffs!

Paul
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Great idea! I'm going to see if I can find something like that here in town.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4304 Posts

Response Posted - 10/21/2013 : 11:28:26

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Stinkpotter
 A 1-million-candle beam in the face would probably be pretty disorienting and disabling in the dark--one flash of that and the guy might end up falling off the dock! You don't want to do that through a window--it'll get you too. If he does get back into his boat, you could keep it on him as he exits the marina. He probably wouldn't come back any time soon.

When I lived in a somewhat more questionable place, I used to leave a light and a radio (tuned to a news station) on when I wasn't home at night. It doesn't take much to make a place seem inhabited.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Darn!!!! I have one of those big yellow 10 million candle power flashlights on my boat and didn't even think about it. It's been up in the V-Berth for a while. I'm sure it needs to be charged.

I'm going to have to bring my king size air mattress back down to the boat just so I can keep my flare gun, flashing alarm/siren, superbright flashlight, etc, etc, in the bed with me.

Think I'll see if I can find a ring tone that has "The Sound" of a 12 ga shotgun getting racked. Everyone knows what that sounds like and what it means!!!

Edited by - on

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 10/21/2013 : 12:04:08

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Turning to the subjectof vehicles, Texas Penal Code §30.01 defines a vehicle "as any device, in,on, or by which any person or property is or may be propelled, moved, or drawnin the normal course of commerce or transportation." This is a very broaddefinition and appears to include anything that carries people or property fromone place to another, including cars, trucks, boats, airplanes, golf carts,etc. The important point to remember is that you or someone else must beoccupying the vehicle to be given the presumption of reasonableness under TexasPenal Code §9.31 and §9.32.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Found this qoute elsewhere. Based on Texas castle doctrine, looks like you can defend yourself on your vessel without a CWP and have no duty to retreat. Of course you should confirm this for yourself.

The sound of a Remington 870 being chambered would definitely wake up the neighborhood.....

But they take up so much room......

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 10/21/2013 : 14:19:43

I keep a little tiny flashlight in my pocket that'll light up your world. It's called an [url="http://www.eagletac.com/html/d25crc/index.html"]EagTac Clicky[/url]. I paid $45 for it and I want about 3 more. If you shined that into someone's dark adapted eyes, they aren't going anywhere in a rush, they simply won't be able to see. I can light up the cul-de-sac about 5 houses down from ours with it, no problem. And it's tiny. It has a bunch of functions which are easy to access, but the best is the flashing strobe on full brightness, disorienting doesn't begin to describe it. If you're looking for a flashlight that doesn't take up much room that is incredibly bright, go get one of these.

I've got my CPL for the little Ruger .380 that I carry in my pocket, which also allows me to carry it loaded in the car.

It'd be tough to cycle a pump action shotgun inside the boat, but assuming the guy can hear, that's going to put the fear into them, nothing else quite sounds like the ka-chunk of an Remington 870 or Mossberg 500. However, Linda Hamilton was able to cycle a folding 870 7x in Terminator II, one handed... What they don't tell you is how long she trained to be able to do that, and had no idea if she'd ever be able to do it in one take.

Edited by - delliottg on 10/21/2013 14:21:46

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
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Response Posted - 10/21/2013 : 14:27:51

Funny how people react. You chose to be still and quiet. I on the other hand would have started making noise, Talking loudly and kicked on a few lights. Most thieves are very nervous and don't want any confrontations. Bet the guy would have left very fast when he saw he wasn't alone. He only wants some free stuff, Not a gun fight.

Edited by - islander on 10/21/2013 14:28:47

pastmember
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Response Posted - 10/21/2013 : 17:49:26

What tickles me about this thread is how many of you carry guns. A few years ago the topic of guns on a boat came up and most people acted as if it was an outrage to suggest having a gun on a boat.
I don't own a gun but used to have a 12 gauge pump, I kept blanks and slugs and planned to use them in that order if needed. I admire people with the self confidence to own a pistola.
It is spooky to be the only person staying over at the club and I always lock the gate to the dock I am on.

Edited by - on

Davy J
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Response Posted - 10/21/2013 : 19:06:00

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> A few years ago the topic of guns on a boat came up and most people acted as if it was an outrage to suggest having a gun on a boat.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
The mantra around here is: Be nice, until, it's time, to not be nice anymore........

It's a movie cliché, but, it also seems to have an effect on crime.

If only more places, around the country, would allow the populace to protect themselves......

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
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Response Posted - 10/21/2013 : 20:12:27

I think I remember that thread, and I was hesitant to mention my pistol, but it is what it is. I've been carrying a firearm for a long time, but only concealed (open carry is legal here in WA, but I choose not to). There are only a few places where it's illegal to carry, (bars, schools, & federal offices), in which case I just lock it up in the glove box of my vehicle.

I've never needed to use or even think about using a firearm here in WA, but I've had them pulled on me in CA, VA, & FL. In all three cases, the guy holding the right end of the gun was either drunk or high. I was able to talk my way out of all three, but none of them were very fun. Given the choice, give me someone who's high rather than drunk, they're easier to deal with.

I think it's interesting to look at the statistics regarding the crime rates of the cities with the most draconian gun control laws vs. those with more gun rights. Isn't there a town in GA where it's required that every person of voting age must own a gun?

Edited by - on

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 10/22/2013 : 03:47:12

<< Isn't there a town in GA where it's required that every person of voting age must own a gun? >>

It's funnier than that ... A Gun and Ammo in every house. Most people around here just kinda chuckle, cause around here that law has been kept for generations. Yep, we got guns, and a pretty fast draw too... My take is my gun is for firing in the air as I run from the situation. Better to have a woman with you.. they usually pack a stun gun.

Anyhoo.. I'm with Frank... Take a picture. We could have posted it here as well as the marina.

Edited by - on

dlucier
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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
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Response Posted - 10/22/2013 : 05:46:03

From the relative safety of the cabin, blast your canned air horn. That should scare off the perp's.

Edited by - on

glen
Captain

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Response Posted - 10/22/2013 : 07:41:00

I can see Don has never vacationed in Detroit :)

Edited by - on

dlucier
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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
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Response Posted - 10/22/2013 : 08:16:56

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by glen
 I can see Don has never vacationed in Detroit :)
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Does working downtown count? I can see the "Joe" from my office window.

Besides being monitored around the clock by the Metropark police, my marina also hosts the DNR, county sheriff, and border patrol.

Edited by - on

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