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83 Catalina 25 Purchase

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Larman
Deckhand

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10 Posts

Initially Posted - 02/25/2014 : 06:59:17

Hi,

I'm going to look at a 25' this coming Sunday. This particular unit does not have a pop top. How much headroom is there? Will I have to be ducking when I go into the cabin?

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 02/25/2014 : 07:40:36

You'll have to duck, but not nearly as much as on a C22, for example. Very few small boats have full standing headroom. It makes them harder to launch from a trailer, and they're generally more expensive. Small boats are generally considered "weekenders." They aren't intended to be long term livaboard boats. They're reasonably comfortable campers. A C25 without a pop top has the advantage of being more seaworthy in really rough conditions. Seawater is less likely to get inside the boat if it doesn't have a pop top. That would be especially helpful if youi sail on big waters, like the Great Lakes or the east, west, or Gulf coasts.

Edited by - on

ftworthsailor
Captain

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USA
279 Posts

Response Posted - 02/25/2014 : 07:45:59

I read a forum thread on SailboatOwners.com that stated the headroom can be around 5'6"-5'8". So, if you are taller,you will have to duck when you go into the cabin on either model. I also heard that you should not sail with the pop top up, so under sail, its probably the same. If you are anchored and partying, then the pop top comes in handy, especially if you have that camper tent piece that goes around the top and fastens to the deck.. I have yet to raise mine, except to make sure it is working properly, so I am probably not the best person to comment on them.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 02/25/2014 : 09:21:10

Welcome Larry! I had an '85 with the pop-top... At 5'9", I had to slump just a little in the galley area, and a little more moving forward. We didn't do much "living" below, and my wife was 5'4", so we didn't worry about it. As Steve says, it's a great deal more usable than a very slightly smaller boat, and probably the most room you'll find on a sailboat that can be trailered without a wide-load permit and a Freightliner. I will recommend removing the accordion door to the head (and particularly the "head-knocker" rail that holds it, and replacing it with something like a curtain with a hook. Your scalp will thank you!

BTW, the '89-91 vintages have a flatter, lower cabin sole, so more headroom.

Tell/ask us more about the boat...

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 02/25/2014 09:23:07

Larman
Deckhand

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10 Posts

Response Posted - 02/25/2014 : 09:38:27

Thanks so much for the replies. I now have a better understanding of the headroom. Is there anything I should be looking out for specific to this sail boat? I know to look for structural defects, and water damage signs. It has an outboard so I can assess that separately.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 02/25/2014 : 09:56:22

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Larman
 Thanks so much for the replies. I now have a better understanding of the headroom. Is there anything I should be looking out for specific to this sail boat? I know to look for structural defects, and water damage signs. It has an outboard so I can assess that separately.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Check this link for some good ideas about evaluating a used boat. http://catalina-capri-25s.org/tech/tech25/summert2.asp

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 02/25/2014 : 12:39:16

Is this a swing keel or the fixed fin keel? There are some things to check that are specific to each. Otherwise, the C-25 is pretty generic--just about like any mass-production sailboat of that era. I'll add checking for water marks on the bulkheads at the front of the salon, where the upper shroud chainplates come through the cabintop.

Unless you consider yourself an expert, once the boat has passes the "smell test" and you're making an offer, I almost always advocate for hiring a professional marine surveyor--costs maybe $350 a $400. He'll use a moisture meter to check for water that can get into the plywood core between the decks and the overhead cabin liner, and also check for hull delamination (rare), rigging integrity, substandard DIY wiring, the outboard's cooling channels, and other stuff that's hard for us amateurs to assess. Your offer can be contingent on a "satisfactory survey", which is customary. If significant issues turn up, you can renegotiate or even walk away. In the latter case, you can think of the survey as the best $400 you've spent on a boat! It sounds like a lot for a boat in this price range, but what else is "a lot" is spending a few grand on something that will cost multiples of that to make safe, and that might be worth nothing except for parts. (...and what do you do with a worthless 4000 lb. fiberglass and iron hull?)

Marine surveyors can be found [url="http://www.marinesurvey.org/us-regions.html"]here[/url].

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 02/25/2014 12:41:39

CarbonSink62
Navigator

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USA
208 Posts

Response Posted - 02/25/2014 : 13:36:46

I have an '82 without the pop-top (I call it a 'hardtop').

Headroom is not 5'6" or 5'8"; more like 5'1" or 5'2".

Ken

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 02/25/2014 : 22:30:08

I have a pop top and love it. Headroom with the top down is perfect for maximum neck discomfort for me.. Raising the top and putting the cover on takes5 minutes or less, and having a foot of clearance overhead completely changes the character of the cabin when anchored or in the slip. Unlike the C-250, most of the cabin is opened up. Having the top ripped away in dire circumstances is certainly conceivable, but the likelihood of my being out in those conditions is pretty low.. Risk assessment: unlikely event X catastrophic outcome. Besides, my swing keel would probably have pounded a hole in the bottom by then.

. I shouldn't make light of it though, it would be very bad. No matter what top or keel, it isn't an offshore boat.

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 02/26/2014 : 16:48:37

I'm 5'6" - 5'7" tall, had a 84 C-25 with pop top, but never raised it until I put her up for sale, just to make sure it did work. But, we also did not spend any overnight time on her.

Edited by - on

szymek
Navigator

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Canada
209 Posts

Response Posted - 02/28/2014 : 04:54:41

I'm 6' tall and not having poptop would be deal breaker for me. Althoug I spend a lot of wekends on it and some times 4 to 7 day trips. I absolutly love this boat. Ive had it for last 6 years and probably spent on upgrades more than she's worth. But no plans selling her anytime soon and I have everything the way I always wanted (almost).

Link that Steve provided is extremly good. I wish I saw it 6 years ago.

Edited by - on

szymek
Navigator

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Canada
209 Posts

Response Posted - 02/28/2014 : 04:55:20

Edited by - on

Larman
Deckhand

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10 Posts

Response Posted - 02/28/2014 : 05:06:23

Unfortunately the sailboat does not have a pop top I guess I will just have to cope with it. I was supposed to take a look at her this weekend but we have a snow storm heading our way. Im interested in doing 1-3 days coastal sails. This is my first sailboat as I am total newbie, luckily I have friend who is an experienced sailor and is helping with the purchase.

Edited by - on

dasreboot
Admiral

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804 Posts

Response Posted - 02/28/2014 : 05:14:36

there are advantages to no poptop as well. You can run more lines back from the mast to the cockpit. You can also easily mount a traveller on top of the cabin. As for me I have raised the poptop twice in 6 years. hopefully doing some ovenights this year, so maybe i will raise it this season.

Edited by - on

Ape-X
Admiral

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USA
662 Posts

Response Posted - 02/28/2014 : 05:15:49

25is a great first boat, it was our introduction to keelboats, sails well and enough room for "cozy" overnighting

Edited by - on

Larman
Deckhand

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10 Posts

Response Posted - 02/28/2014 : 06:02:55

The previous owner told me he never stayed overnight on her. In fact by the look of the cabin I don't think he set foot in her too often. I am looking forward to cleaning and upgrading/repairing. The boat is on the Hudson in NY. Need to bring her home to the North Shore of Eastern Long Island. Im going off the pictures and what the owner has told me regarding the boats condition so I hope he is accurate in his description.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 02/28/2014 : 10:27:06

So what's special about this particular boat? There are a couple of fin keel C-25 in Westbrook CT (across the Sound from you) and one in Noank, CT, (a little further east) on Yachtworld.com, all with pop-tops... I know nothing of their condition, but the asking prices aren't out of line.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 02/28/2014 10:31:57

Larman
Deckhand

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10 Posts

Response Posted - 02/28/2014 : 11:11:07

Nothing really special about this boat but the price!! Under 2k for the boat with mooring, stands and outboard. Supposedly in sailing condition. He sailed all last season.

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Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1511 Posts

Response Posted - 02/28/2014 : 11:34:17

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Im going off the pictures and what the owner has told me regarding the boats condition so I hope he is accurate in his description.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Do not rely on the photos...... I can't tell you the number of boats I have looked at because the photos looked good and the boat appeared clean, only to get there and find just the opposite.

Two weeks ago I drove all the way down to Sugarloaf Key to look at a larger boat. Looked spectacular in the photos.....

Found a leaking, damp, wet, dirty POS.....

Edited by - on

Larman
Deckhand

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10 Posts

Response Posted - 02/28/2014 : 11:55:20

Yes I agree, I know there is a chance that she may be a dog, I have a buddy( a lifelong sailor) coming along to sniff for danger. Im being optomistic but you never know.

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ftworthsailor
Captain

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USA
279 Posts

Response Posted - 02/28/2014 : 12:58:38

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dasreboot
 there are advantages to no poptop as well. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Not having the pop top up allows more cockpit to bow access and a nice sitting area for my kids while we are on a long reach or run. You probably can't or shouldn't sit on the top of a pop-top while it is up.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">"Do not rely on the photos...... I can't tell you the number of boats I have looked at because the photos looked good and the boat appeared clean, only to get there and find just the opposite.
"<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Not only do you NOT rely on photos, you also don't rely on the PO's opinion as to the boat's condition. A P.O. may have sentimental value for his boat and may have overlooked structural issues because the boat apparently still works fine. A boat said to be in excellent condition by its P.O. might turn out to have some structural issues that, unless you are good with fiberglass or wood repairs, or simply want to buy a "project boat", are things that you need to really look closely for.

Just sayin.........

R

Edited by - ftworthsailor on 02/28/2014 13:10:39

ftworthsailor
Captain

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USA
279 Posts

Response Posted - 02/28/2014 : 13:08:41

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Davy J
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Im going off the pictures and what the owner has told me regarding the boats condition so I hope he is accurate in his description.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Do not rely on the photos...... I can't tell you the number of boats I have looked at because the photos looked good and the boat appeared clean, only to get there and find just the opposite.

Two weeks ago I drove all the way down to Sugarloaf Key to look at a larger boat. Looked spectacular in the photos.....

Found a leaking, damp, wet, dirty POS.....

[/I]<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Davy, you were apparently looking (at the wrong boat) at one of my boats! The one you wanted was two slips over........ (jk) lol

[/quote]

Edited by - ftworthsailor on 02/28/2014 13:13:41

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9081 Posts

Response Posted - 02/28/2014 : 15:19:13

First Rule of Boating: Do not buy the first boat you look at.

Second Rule of Boating: Re-read the First Rule of Boating.

There are many boats out there, and a "real bargain" is rarely that. Think of the pre-1989 C-25 as a $6000-7000 boat. You can buy one for half of that, and you'll likely spend that much or more getting her somewhere close to the condition you might have started with if you'd spent $6000-7000. But the only way you can begin to understand that is by looking at boats--at least several boats. One boat will make another look like a P.O.S., and a third boat will verify your conclusions and maybe convince you to look at a fourth.

Some major, tangible contributors to value include a post-Y2K 4-stroke outboard, a roller furler, sails with less than 10 seasons, newer-than-original interior cushions, standing rigging (stays and shrouds) that's newer than the boat, and the newer "balanced design" rudder. Those items represent a potential total of well over $8,000 to add or replace. Used boat prices rarely (or never) completely reflect what previous owners have put into their boats. Buying a cheap one can be passing up the opportunity to benefit financially from another P.O.'s investments. With the "more expensive" boat, you'll likely end up with more than you might be able to justify by upgrading it yourself.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 02/28/2014 15:30:29

Larman
Deckhand

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10 Posts

Response Posted - 03/02/2014 : 14:35:48

Hello,

I am back from looking at the Catalina 25. Here are the details. Over all the outside looks good, no visible structural defects in the fiberglass. We did note that the cabin door was in need of some tlc and that one of the life line stanchions was broken. Mast,winches and everything else look good. My sailing buddy told me the sails were in good shape. Compass and depth finder did not look functional and would need to be replaced.

Inside the cabin was about what we expected, it need a really good cleaning. No table. Cabin Cushions missing. We did have water and ice in the bilge area, is this normal? The boat was not buttoned up to well and I am sure water or melting snow made its was in. Also we also noted that under the windows there were signs of water leaking, my sailing friend it look like it could just need to be calked. Previous Owner told us he never really went into the cabin and it looked it. There was a VHF radio and antenna condition unknown as he never used nor tried to.

This is a pop top version, the PO did not ever use it.

The outboard looked in decent shape but she but we did not start her up.

I know I can handle the cosmetics on this boat and any needed repairs to the outboard. Im pretty handy and did all the repairs/upgrades on my power boat. The price is right at less than $2000. It comes with the mooring ball, pendant and accessories, so I would not have to purchase that which will save me $600. It also comes with the stands so I can store her in my backyard in the winter.

I dont have to make a quick decision on this. I have a few more boats to look at. They are all priced much higher than this one. Budget is a concern here and also this sailboat is 2.5 hours from my home and I would have to sail her or trailer her home.

Edited by - Larman on 03/02/2014 14:41:00

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4024 Posts

Response Posted - 03/02/2014 : 17:05:14

Was this the boat up in Chelsea?
http://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/37757

Edited by - on

Larman
Deckhand

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10 Posts

Response Posted - 03/02/2014 : 17:55:11

Yes do you know the boat?

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