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Trailer hubs over-heating question

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dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Initially Posted - 05/20/2014 : 05:48:21

I could use some help here guys. Last week, I completed the project of adding brakes to my C-22 trailer. The brakes are Tie Down Engineering disc brakes, a 1 year old set from my racing friend, who replaced his after coming back from the Nationals last year in Ft. Walton.
I rebuilt one caliper using a rebuild kit from Tie Down, but had to buy a new caliper for the other wheel, as I could not get the piston out of the caliper housing. The single piece hubs and rotors were in good shape, as the seals and bearings seemed to be also, so those were cleaned and re-used. We got the brakes installed, and everything seemed fine pulling the empty trailer 30 miles to the lake. After arriving back home, with the boat on the trailer, I noticed that the hubs were hot, actually too warm to keep my hand on the hubs. One bearing buddy actually fell off in my driveway while backing the boat in.
I'm looking for suggestions to trouble shoot the problem. Bad bearings, hubs too tight, hubs too loose, wrong grease, not enough grease?
I cleaned the old grease out as much as possible with paper towels. Shot new grease, blue stuff for hi temp disc brakes, into the inner bearings, put hubs on axle, more grease into hubs, new grease worked into outer bearings, added washer and lock nut, tightened nut then backed off one notch to add cotter pin. Used the whole tube of grease.

DavidP
1975 C-22 SK #5459 "Shadowfax" Fleet 52
PO of 1984 C-25 SK/TR #4142 "Recess"
Percy Priest Yacht Club, Hamilton Creek Marina, Nashville, TN

Edited by - dmpilc on 05/20/2014 05:50:34

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4024 Posts

Response Posted - 05/20/2014 : 06:59:38

Is this a single axle or double. Are all the hubs hot or just one or one side. With the wheels off does the rotors spin some what freely with just some brake drag or are they tight. Brake actuator moving in and out as it should?

Edited by - on

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3476 Posts

Response Posted - 05/20/2014 : 07:32:44

Are the racers clean, no pitting?

Edited by - on

kc5dlo
1st Mate

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USA
71 Posts

Response Posted - 05/20/2014 : 07:36:01

As I recall, there is something different on a disc brake actuator that lets the pads retract. Is the actuator for Disc brakes?

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 05/20/2014 : 14:06:47

If it is the correct actuator, then a bad bearing or too tight would be my best guess.. I tighten to seat everything, loosen unti I can just wobble the wheel, tighten just past wobble and back off enough to fit the cotter pin. That is, wobble horizontally and vertically with the wheel on so I have some leverage.

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 05/20/2014 : 14:20:20

Single axle, and the actuator is for disc brakes. I did not notice any pitting in the races. Both hubs were hot to the touch, but no burning smell from the grease. Trailer has never had brakes before. I had a welding shop cut the coupler off, beef up the extension tube from 2 1/2 inch square to 3 inches square for the actuator (Dico brand), pull the old hubs, add the the disc brakes/hubs and run the brake lines. After installing the disc/hubs, they turned freely but did not spin fast. Sounds like I may have the lock nuts too tight. When I'm back home, I'll back them off a notch or two, and drive the boat around a bit. If still hot, she goes to the shop for the pros to look over. Thanks.

Edited by - on

hewebb
Admiral

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USA
761 Posts

Response Posted - 05/21/2014 : 03:25:39

Normally having the bearings to tight will cause heat build up, if the brakes are not dragging. If you did not clean up the races and bearings and pack by hand there is a good chance the inner bearing did not get grease. Bearing buddies typically will not grease the rear bearings unless the rear seal is compromised and grease is pushed past it. It is rare, but some types grease can attack other types of grease rendering it non lubricating.

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 05/21/2014 : 07:24:52

I assumed I could clean up the inner bearings enough by hand with paper towels without removing the seal at the back and removing the bearings. I then spread new grease all over the bearings before putting the rotor/hub back on the axle. Come to think of it, after looking at pictures of bearing kits, I do not remember seeing any metal rings that would go into the hub before or after the outer race of bearings. Did I miss a critical part? The outer bearing race seemed to fit in well. BTW, after putting the rotor/hub on the axle, I did pump in a lot of grease into the area between the axle and the hub before inserting the outer bearings. Pretty sure I used the entire tube of grease.

Edit: Looks like I should have read up on replacing bearings BEFORE I started this project. I assumed all of the parts were there when I got the brake kits from my friend, and I just needed to clean and reinstall what he gave me. I may be missing the races (rings) for the outer bearings. May even have to pull the hubs and start over with fresh bearing kits. We'll see.

Edited by - dmpilc on 05/21/2014 07:41:56

GaryB
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USA
4304 Posts

Response Posted - 05/21/2014 : 20:37:52

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dmpilc
 I assumed I could clean up the inner bearings enough by hand with paper towels without removing the seal at the back and removing the bearings. I then spread new grease all over the bearings before putting the rotor/hub back on the axle. Come to think of it, after looking at pictures of bearing kits, I do not remember seeing any metal rings that would go into the hub before or after the outer race of bearings. Did I miss a critical part? The outer bearing race seemed to fit in well. BTW, after putting the rotor/hub on the axle, I did pump in a lot of grease into the area between the axle and the hub before inserting the outer bearings. Pretty sure I used the entire tube of grease.

Edit: Looks like I should have read up on replacing bearings BEFORE I started this project. I assumed all of the parts were there when I got the brake kits from my friend, and I just needed to clean and reinstall what he gave me. I may be missing the races (rings) for the outer bearings. May even have to pull the hubs and start over with fresh bearing kits. We'll see.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
You have to either "hand" pack wheel bearings or use a wheel bearing packer to get them properly "loaded" with grease, you cannot just smear grease on the outside of the bearing.

The link below will show the proper way to pack wheel bearings using a wheel bearing packer which you can get at most auto parts stores for around $25.00 It's the only way to do it. Takes no time to do each bearing.

Even though you may pack the void between the inner and outer bearings in grease it won't help much if the bearings are not pre-loaded with grease.

The video also shows the old fashion way to "hand" pack bearings in case you're caught having to replace a bearing on the highway.

[url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXlK0ihVu60"]How to Pack Wheel Bearings[/url]

Edited by - GaryB on 05/21/2014 20:41:33

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4304 Posts

Response Posted - 05/23/2014 : 16:01:57

Wow, I guess I killed this thread. LOL

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OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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4382 Posts

Response Posted - 05/23/2014 : 16:32:20

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by GaryB
 Wow, I guess I killed this thread. LOL
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
tough act to follow!

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 05/27/2014 : 09:05:27

As per the video (thanks Gary) I hand packed the outer bearings on each side continuing to use Lucas Marine Grease from Advance Auto Parts. Outer races looked okay. I would have to disassemble the calipers and pull the hub/rotors to get to the inner bearings, so saving that for the shop. I drove with the trailer about 3 miles each way to recycle some stuff. Both hubs were hot to the touch again, but didn't seem any hotter than the 30 mile drive home from the lake last week. I suspect that the pads are scraping the rotors constantly. Up on the jack, the wheels would spin, but came to a stop fairly quickly. Also, on one side, it looks like one corner of the axle u-bolt backing plate is touching the caliper, keeping it from moving freely on the slide pins. May be happening on both side; hard to tell. Could also be a problem with the actuator/flow of brake fluid. Taking it to the shop Thursday to have it checked out by pros.
Thanks for all of the replies.

Edited by - dmpilc on 05/27/2014 09:18:10

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4304 Posts

Response Posted - 05/27/2014 : 18:00:35

Disk brake calipers and the hubs are going to get relatively hot no matter what. That's part of the reason you use hi-temp grease.

If they are over-heating you would most likely smell the hot metal and grease.

The backing plate could definitely be part of the problem.

The shop should have you fixed up when you get it back.

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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4593 Posts

Response Posted - 05/29/2014 : 19:45:56

No grease or metal smells, not burning hot to the touch, just too hot to keep your fingers on the hub, or lug nuts, for more than a second or two before it becomes very uncomfortable. I expect that the axle u-bolt backing plate was helping to cause heat buildup 0n one side, but doesn't explain heat on the other side. no call from the shop today, hope to find out tomorrow.

Edited by - on

shnool
Former Capri-25 Tech Editor

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USA
1032 Posts

Response Posted - 05/30/2014 : 03:54:10

I've always packed like this video, 3 minutes in.. never used a tool.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akh0WhkudrM

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4304 Posts

Response Posted - 06/01/2014 : 07:58:15

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dmpilc
 No grease or metal smells, not burning hot to the touch, just too hot to keep your fingers on the hub, or lug nuts, for more than a second or two before it becomes very uncomfortable. I expect that the axle u-bolt backing plate was helping to cause heat buildup 0n one side, but doesn't explain heat on the other side. no call from the shop today, hope to find out tomorrow.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Drive your car or truck on the freeway for 10 or 15 miles then exit and touch the front hubs (quickly). You'll probably find they are hot to the touch also. I'm betting other than the backing plate being too close that your trailer is fine.

But then again you're getting what you pay for from me!

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 06/02/2014 : 06:20:21

It really sucks when I take a stupid pill! Took the trailer to the shop and had them check it out. Turns out the emergency brake gizmo (the switch with the break away cable) had been tripped. Dumbo here didn't even think about that possibility. Anyway, that's been reset, and I made it home from the shop without the hubs heating up, other than slightly warm, so it looks like I'm in business again. Thanks all for your comments and suggestions.

Edit: To all - If you replace an actuator with one you are not VERY familiar with, closely compare the device to photos in the owner's manual. If I had done that, or actually read the section on the break-away lever, I might have seen that the brake activator had been tripped.

Edited by - dmpilc on 06/03/2014 10:32:27

Tomas Kruska
Admiral

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Czech Republic
522 Posts

Response Posted - 06/02/2014 : 07:46:30

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dmpilc
 It really sucks when I take a stupid pill!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Glad you sorted it out, but this stupid pill reminds me another special "American pills against rain" from one of our famous comedy movie

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 06/03/2014 : 19:57:45

Good to know this information - thank you for sharing.

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