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jib sheets

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tom
1st Mate

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USA
52 Posts

Initially Posted - 03/31/2003 : 07:53:00

I would like to purchase new jib sheets this year. I have a roller furler and my questions are. West Marine says 5/16" is recomended however most people on this site prefer larger (3/8 or 1/2). I too would like a larger size for a better handeling. Does'nt the larger size get caught in the standing rigging more often? How long should each sheet be considering I have a roller furler ? What's the best knot to use on jib sheets ? Finally can anyone recommend what jib sheets they purchased I am looking at Yale Crystalyne from West Marine 3/8" .

Edited by - on

osmepneo
Past Commodore

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1420 Posts

Response Posted - 03/31/2003 : 08:14:38

Tom,

Whether you have roller furling or not shouldn't effect the length of jib sheet you use. The other sheet, the unused sheet still needs to get around the mast and back to the block and still have length left over.

Bill Holcomb, a couple years ago was talking about sheet length and it seems that he said 38 feet. But I'm not sure that's the correct length. I believe mine are 3/8 and they seem to work well in all conditions.

Don Peet
c25, 1665, osmepneo, sr/wk
The Great Sacandaga Lake, NY

Edited by - on

Bill Holcomb
Admiral

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769 Posts

Response Posted - 03/31/2003 : 08:42:43

Hi Tom,

Here's a link to the page in the C25 parts manual that discusses jib and gennoa sheets.

http://c25c250.best.vwh.net/restricted/pc20.gif

You'll see that Catalina recommends 3/8" braided dacron for both jibs and gennys. 65 feet long for jibs and 75 feet long for gennys. Catalina figures that you'll attached the sheet to the sail's clew at the halfway point (32.5' for jibs and 37.5' for genny's).

I generally use the 1.5 times boat length for each genny sheet (25 plus 12.5 equals 37.5 feet for each sheet - same as the Catalina recommendatin for gennoa sheets).

As far as the appropriate knot, there are several options. But, with a furler, I think that I'd use the whole 75 feet, find the middle of the sheet by doubling it back on itself. Then push the middle through the clew cringle (making a loop) and pull the long ends through the loop. This will make a small tight knot right at the clew that is unlikely to hook the rigging.

Bill Holcomb - C25 Snickerdoodle #4839

Edited by - on

osmepneo
Past Commodore

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Response Posted - 03/31/2003 : 11:50:56

Hmmm, thanks Bill for response.

When I wrote my reply I was thinking of the 38 feet for the Port sheet and 38 feet for the starboard sheet, totaling 76 feet. guess I not losing my mind totally!

Don Peet
c25, 1665, osmepneo, sr/wk
The Great Sacandaga Lake, NY

Edited by - on

dave holtgrave
Captain

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427 Posts

Response Posted - 03/31/2003 : 12:33:21

use the 5/16.
it is an all around good size for the 25
just get a low stretch
dave
5722
sk/tr

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tom
1st Mate

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52 Posts

Response Posted - 03/31/2003 : 18:22:18

Thanks for the replys. Everyone has always been great. I learn alot from this site.

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tom
1st Mate

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52 Posts

Response Posted - 03/31/2003 : 18:29:59

hey Dave why do you say to use 5/16" ?

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John Mason
Admiral

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687 Posts

Response Posted - 03/31/2003 : 19:50:32

I like the Trophy Braid by Samson Ropes. http://www.samsonrope.com/home/recmarine/de_prr_trophy.cfm. Has a nice fuzzy high grip cover. It's more of a cruising sheet than a racing sheet though.

I think the diameter is a balance between light weight and something large enough to grip solidly. Of course, taking into account the safe working load of the line.

I use the "cow hitch" described by Bill Holcomb, but in light air it still catches on the forward lowers while tacking. I have 3/8" sheets.

I think I'm going to get a couple pieces of 1" diameter pvc pipe about 6" long and end caps. Drill holes in the caps, fit them on each end of the pvc and slide that up the forward shroud to sit on the pvc turnbuckle covers. Then the increased diameter won't snag the knotted sheet when tacking. Can you tell I don't race this boat?

John Mason
<img src="http://www.users.qwest.net/~jamason/ali.jpg" border=0>
pronounced "Ali Paroosa"
1982 - FK/SR #3290

Edited by - John Mason on 03/31/2003 20:01:29

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 03/31/2003 : 21:41:33

My PO put 1/2" sheets on (main and genny), which are just too fat. For one thing, they don't fit into a "Wincher" as an alternative to cleating (or probably the grove on a Lewmar 16ST), and they're annoying to coil. My first criterion for chosing a line when I replace them will be a soft (fuzzy) finish.

Like Bill and John, I also use the simple cow hitch, but with a furler, I don't need to remove the sheets. Somebody (Charles Wall?) described a hitch that allows you to remove the sheets without having to thread the entire lengths through the loop--a useful option for hank-on sails.

Dave Bristle - 1985 C-25 #5032 SR-FK-Dinette-Honda "Passage" in SW CT

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 03/31/2003 21:54:23

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10timesSaltier
1st Mate

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80 Posts

Response Posted - 03/31/2003 : 21:51:54

I used 2 38' 3/8" sta-set-x eye-spliced to a snap shackle on a swivel at the clew.

My PO used a knot at the clew and the sheet frayed badly at the knot, hence the (some might say overdone) splices and swivel. Works perfectly, and the swivel with the eye splices doesn't wear out like a knot at the clew did.

Brian.
Great Salt Lake (10-times saltier than the ocean)
"SAFARI", '81 C25 TR-FK #2275

Edited by - 10timessaltier on 04/01/2003 09:54:31

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nate
Navigator

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240 Posts

Response Posted - 04/01/2003 : 11:42:25

I have 5/16 Sta-Set X all over the boat........I usually wait for Sailnet to have a cordage sale and buy a bunch. Only drawback is all
the lines are the same color, which to me is no biggie.

Nate Adams
C25 #5695
"Heeling Properties"
Lake Mead

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 04/01/2003 : 12:46:39

I do the same as Nate and buy from Sailnet when it's on sale. Currently, my running rigging sizes are,

Halyards = 5/16"
Genoa Sheets = 3/8"
Main Sheet = 7/16"
Light Air Spin Sheets = 1/4"

<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>Don Lucier<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b2cc32b3127cce92e981259d130000001010" border=0>
North Star SR/FK

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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6855 Posts

Response Posted - 04/01/2003 : 16:45:00

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
My first criterion for chosing a line when I replace them will be a soft (fuzzy) finish.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

We call them user friendly sheets on the Evelyn 32. The softer cotton is much easier on the hands.

If your going to use a continuous length as opposed to two separate pieces, find the center of the rope and double the line over, and tie a bowline with the "loop end" just as if it were the bitter end of the line.

dw

D. Wolff - "The Flying Wasp" #401 sr/sk
Chief Measurer C-25/250 National Assn.
<img src="http://www.flags.com/dreamimages/Flags/measurer.jpg" border=0>

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 04/01/2003 : 18:48:36

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
We call them user friendly sheets on the Evelyn 32. The softer cotton is much easier on the hands.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>
I've had Dacron sheets that were apparently brushed to give them a soft finish. I think I'd prefer that over cotton.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
If your going to use a continuous length as opposed to two separate pieces, find the center of the rope and double the line over, and tie a bowline with the "loop end" just as if it were the bitter end of the line.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>
I don't follow you... Is that with the line through the clew? Why do that instead of the cow hitch?

Dave Bristle - 1985 C-25 #5032 SR-FK-Dinette-Honda "Passage" in SW CT

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 04/02/2003 : 08:19:02

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>

I've had Dacron sheets that were apparently brushed to give them a soft finish. I think I'd prefer that over cotton.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>
Thats probably what ours are. Not sure why I typed cotton, but they feel like it.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>

I don't follow you... Is that with the line through the clew? Why do that instead of the cow hitch?

<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

you mentioned <BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Somebody (Charles Wall?) described a hitch that allows you to remove the sheets without having to thread the entire lengths through the loop--a useful option for hank-on sails.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>
This is a method to tie the knot without having to thread the entire length through the loop. Plus - I have found that a cow hitch slips.

DW

D. Wolff - "The Flying Wasp" #401 sr/sk
Chief Measurer C-25/250 National Assn.
<img src="http://www.flags.com/dreamimages/Flags/measurer.jpg" border=0>

Edited by - on

osmepneo
Past Commodore

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1420 Posts

Response Posted - 04/02/2003 : 09:19:03

osmepneo's jib sheets are attached the sail with a shackle. I believe they are are attached to the shackle with a cow hitch. I keep thinking about weight and am thinking of taking the shackle out of the connection, and tie the sheets directly to the clew using the cow hitch - seems to me that the bowline (a double bowline ?) would have additional weight, not a lot, but in light air . . ..

On the asymetrical spinniker the sheets are attached with a cow hitch.

Sails are home for the winter, and the spinniker's sheets are permanently attached. Jib sheets are at the lake house, maybe still on the boat, I hope, or I'll need to replace.

Don Peet
c25, 1665, osmepneo, sr/wk
The Great Sacandaga Lake, NY

Edited by - osmepneo on 04/02/2003 09:20:40

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 04/02/2003 : 10:24:47

I use the cow hitch on my genoa and have knot had any slippage problems. If you do experience slippage, you could just put a seizing on it.

Duane, I would think a doubled up bowline would be too bulky and could possibly catch on things.

<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>Don Lucier<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b2cc32b3127cce92e981259d130000001010" border=0>
North Star SR/FK

Edited by - dlucier on 04/02/2003 10:31:15

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Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 04/02/2003 : 12:05:52

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
I use the cow hitch on my genoa and have knot had any slippage problems. If you do experience slippage, you could just put a seizing on it.

Duane, I would think a doubled up bowline would be too bulky and could possibly catch on things.

<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Your right, it probably would catch on things, I was offering an alternative to running a78+ length of line without having to do a cow hitch, as mentioned.

Personally I tie regular bowlines (2 of them) to my jib sheets. No slippage, not much weight, doesn't get caught up. It's the way I was taught and I will probably keep on doing that until there is a better way that I like.

Its not too applicable on a c-25, but when doing a sail change we only have to untie one jib sheet and attach it to the new sail, tack, drop the sail on the inside and the other sheet is right there ready to attach. Near the end of the season we can usually do this without even thinking twice.

D. Wolff - "The Flying Wasp" #401 sr/sk
Chief Measurer C-25/250 National Assn.
<img src="http://www.flags.com/dreamimages/Flags/measurer.jpg" border=0>

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 04/02/2003 : 13:02:58

You bring up an interesting point concerning changing headsails. On my last boat I had two head sails and the separate jib sheets were attached(with bowlines) to a non-swiveling snap shackle to make for easier sail changes. Since I now have a furler I just use a continuous length of line and a cow hitch instead of the snap shackle.

For those using a bowline, work the knot so the tail and the loop are as small as possible to keep it from snagging on something.

<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>Don Lucier<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b2cc32b3127cce92e981259d130000001010" border=0>
North Star SR/FK

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Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 04/02/2003 : 14:14:45

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>

For those using a bowline, work the knot so the tail and the loop are as small as possible to keep it from snagging on something.

<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

It also is important to keep the loop of the night as small as possible, i.e. nice and snug against the sail. This will reduce the chances the knot gets caught on something during tacking. It will also, for those of you with a racing cut headsail (deck sweeper)trim that bad boy almost all the way to the jib car.

DW

D. Wolff - "The Flying Wasp" #401 sr/sk
Chief Measurer C-25/250 National Assn.
<img src="http://www.flags.com/dreamimages/Flags/measurer.jpg" border=0>

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osmepneo
Past Commodore

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Response Posted - 04/02/2003 : 15:25:37

There is an alternative "not" for tieing individual sheets to the cluw. It's a bunt line hitch - don't ask me to explain how to tie it, but it's similar to clove hitch or a double half hitch and when you take up the loop going thru the "clue" it is very secure. It is one of the three or four knots I routrinely use on osmepneo. the guy I raced with on the Hudson taught me how to tie it.

Don Peet
c25, 1665, osmepneo, sr/wk
The Great Sacandaga Lake, NY

Edited by - on

dave holtgrave
Captain

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427 Posts

Response Posted - 04/03/2003 : 08:45:38

hey tom bruno
i use the 5/16" for light air.
i have used 3/8" bur seems too heavy.
i like the smaller because i sail mostly in wind under 20 mph.
dave holtgrave
5722
tr/sk
27 days to carlyle illinois

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tom
1st Mate

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52 Posts

Response Posted - 04/06/2003 : 08:40:47

Bill your suggestion seems great but I wondering if I simply feed the center loop of a continuos line through the clew and slip the long end through the loop is that enough to stop the line fron slipping ?

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matsche
Captain

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280 Posts

Response Posted - 04/06/2003 : 10:04:04

I use the bunt line hitch for tying haylards. It's a very small knot, more secure than a bowline but it is harder to untie. For that reason, I haven't tried it yet with my sheets.

I found a "how to" article on Sailnet if anybody's interested: http://www.sailnet.com/collections/articles/index.cfm?articleid=rousma017

John Matsche 1985 Cat-25 TR/FK

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Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 04/06/2003 : 10:04:18

Tom: I've never had a cow hitch slip even an inch on our 130 genny. The harder you pull one sheet, the tighter the loop locks them both in place.

Dave Bristle - 1985 C-25 #5032 SR-FK-Dinette-Honda "Passage" in SW CT

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 04/06/2003 : 11:01:02

As I stated earlier, my jib sheets are attached to my roller furled genoa with a cow hitch and I haven't experienced any slipping. I like the cow hitch because it is compact and simple.

I read the article on the buntline hitch and it looks like a very good knot.

<img src="http://www.sailnet.com/images/content/authors/rousmaniere/120699buntline_hitch.gif" border=0>

The only issues I see with using the buntline hitch is that you can't use a continuous line for the jib sheets. This means you will need two knots(one for each sheet) and possibly a snap shackle(for sail changes). This extra bulk provides more opportunnities for snagging. Additionally, it doesn't appear to be easy to untie after the line has been under load.

<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>Don Lucier<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b2cc32b3127cce92e981259d130000001010" border=0>
North Star SR/FK

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