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is it ABSOLUTELY necesary to replace spreader brac

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77Gypsy
Captain

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USA
356 Posts

Initially Posted - 04/22/2003 : 12:47:09

i just had a survey done on my standing rigging and it came back good. do i have to replace the spreader brackets, i know a lot of you have recommended it on this forum but is it a MUST???

Steven de Filippis
78 C25 SR/FK - Gypsy

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 04/22/2003 : 13:21:11

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Is it ABSOLUTELY necesary to replace spreader brackets?<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Only if you absolutely don't want the rig to fall.

If you have the older cast aluminum brackets you should probably replace them with the stainless brackets. According to my CD catalog, the spreader bracket kit only costs $47.00 and is rather cheap insurance when you consider the cost of replacing the mast, sails, rigging, deck repairs,...etc, and the risk of injury when the mast comes crashing down.

Additionally, it is difficult for a surveryor to know all the idiosynchrasies of every boat of every size ever manufactured. He may not know about these aluminum brackets or any other C25 specific anomolies, only general stuff like rigging, hull, electrical, heads, engines and other general issues that all boats have, even powerboats.

Also, in my area, powerboats far outnumber sailboats by a very large margin. So unless the surveyor specializes in sailboats, he most likely has more experience with powerboats and their issues, than with sailboats and their own peculiarities.

<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>Don Lucier<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b2d904b3127cce9f7cd9ffdf1d0000003010" border=0>
North Star SR/FK

Edited by - dlucier on 04/22/2003 13:38:35

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Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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6855 Posts

Response Posted - 04/22/2003 : 13:36:45

If you do replace them, there is no guarantee that the rig won't fall either - just piece of mind that you are structurally sound.

If you don't have any problems with them, I would put them on a "to do" list and then prioritize. Our priority list usually replaces and repairs safety items first, broken items second, and aesthitically fun projects that we don't really need but would like last.

dw

D. Wolff - "The Flying Wasp" #401 sr/sk
Chief Measurer C-25/250 National Assn.
<img src="http://www.flags.com/dreamimages/Flags/measurer.jpg" border=0>

Edited by - Duane Wolff on 04/22/2003 13:37:51

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
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Response Posted - 04/22/2003 : 13:52:50

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>"If you don't have any problems with them, I would put them on a "to do" list..."<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Most people DON'T have a problem with these UNTIL they fail.
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>"If you do replace them, there is no guarantee that the rig won't fall either...<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

True, and wearing a life jacket is no guarantee that I won't drown either, but it's still better to wear it than not. Just like the swing keel cable, replacing suspect items on a boat will lower the odds of a mishap.

Having said that, I'm still floating around with to-hulls. <img src=icon_smile_blush.gif border=0 align=middle>

<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>Don Lucier<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b2d904b3127cce9f7cd9ffdf1d0000003010" border=0>
North Star SR/FK

Edited by - dlucier on 04/22/2003 13:54:18

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Champipple
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6855 Posts

Response Posted - 04/22/2003 : 13:57:09

I agree with you Don - but the reality is, time and money dictate a lot of our decisions about repairs...Thus the reason we put safety items first aesthetic items last.

D. Wolff - "The Flying Wasp" #401 sr/sk
Chief Measurer C-25/250 National Assn.
<img src="http://www.flags.com/dreamimages/Flags/measurer.jpg" border=0>

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77Gypsy
Captain

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USA
356 Posts

Response Posted - 04/22/2003 : 14:20:21

Ok guys, you scared me enough, i just ordered the replacement from CD.

Steven de Filippis
78 C25 SR/FK - Gypsy

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 04/22/2003 : 15:06:38

Steven,

Do you actually have the older cast aluminum spreader brackets?

<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>Don Lucier<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b2d904b3127cce9f7cd9ffdf1d0000003010" border=0>
North Star SR/FK

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77Gypsy
Captain

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USA
356 Posts

Response Posted - 04/22/2003 : 16:27:18

for: Don Lucier

I think i have the old cast aluminum, the boat is a 78 sr/fk i have the original order form from the factory about 3 owners ago, that form states stainless steel standing rigging so i kinda blew off replacing the spreaders. then after some communication from this forum i decided to have my marina have alook, they were out there today and said "they look like aluminum" so the hell with it and spent the $60.00 now i have to find someone to install it, i have some umbers or local riggers but i would like to find someone who has actually done this before.

Steven de Filippis
78 C25 SR/FK - Gypsy

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77Gypsy
Captain

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USA
356 Posts

Response Posted - 04/23/2003 : 09:29:06

has anyone in this association have had their bracket fail and the mast crash down?

Steven de Filippis
78 C25 SR/FK - Gypsy

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MikeM
1st Mate

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72 Posts

Response Posted - 04/23/2003 : 12:55:55

After reading the thread you scared me into making the move also. Just placed the order with Catalina Direct, price has gone up to $67 though (typical).

Mike M
Marblehead, MA
C25 #1212

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markolito
1st Mate

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Italy
95 Posts

Response Posted - 04/23/2003 : 14:32:30

clear enough??

<img src="http://www.response-marketing.com/beta/snap.jpg" border=0>

<img src="http://www.response-marketing.com/beta/plaa.jpg" border=0>
1980 SR/SK "Wet Pretzel"

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RichardG
Admiral

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USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 04/23/2003 : 15:50:30

Marco:

I may be wrong, but didn't this rig fail when the upper shrouds disconnected from the spreader because the spreader ends were not affixed to the uppers with seizing wire? The picture appears to show the unbroken spreader brackets in place.

RichardG 81 C25 SR/FK "Sanity"

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markolito
1st Mate

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Italy
95 Posts

Response Posted - 04/23/2003 : 16:19:29

true, but it shows where the weakest point is..

when i dismantled the rig the spreader bracket showed corrosion and was all bent <img src=icon_smile_dissapprove.gif border=0 align=middle>

THE OLD SPREADER BRACKET was not the CAUSE of this, but did not help it much either.. they were 20yrs old.

<img src="http://www.response-marketing.com/beta/plaa.jpg" border=0>
1980 SR/SK "Wet Pretzel"

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Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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6855 Posts

Response Posted - 04/23/2003 : 16:39:55

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>now i have to find someone to install it, i have some umbers or local riggers but i would like to find someone who has actually done this before.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

The project isn't all that difficult if you want to try and do it yourself.

It takes patience, but thats about it. ( I believe we had a fairly low MF quotient on this project)

First, remove the old ones. Mark your uppers or lowers with tape to differentiate them later.

Then, get a long stick and tape the compression tube to it and slide it up the mast (this is the patience part)After a little jostling and playing withthe stick, you should be able to thread the bolt through both brackets, the mast and the hole. After that, put the nut on it and move to the next bolt.

Reattach the spreaders, and shrouds. Wire the Uppers into the end fittings on the spreader, tape them up or add you spreader boots and step the mast.

For those that already did this, am I missing anything?

The one thing I did do was drill a small hole in the spreader to accomodate a large cotter pin where the pole meets the bracket. I believe there are pin holes already on the bracket...if not I drilled those too. If I recall, just for an extra touch, I believe we drilled out the bolts too and slipped a cotter ring into them outside of the nut...

dw

D. Wolff - "The Flying Wasp" #401 sr/sk
Chief Measurer C-25/250 National Assn.
<img src="http://www.flags.com/dreamimages/Flags/measurer.jpg" border=0>

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 04/23/2003 : 19:06:27

For those who are curious as to what each of the brackets looks like, here's the page from the CD catalog.

<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3da02b3127cce96933a922f1a0000001610" border=0>
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3da02b3127cce9693e5fceeb30000001610" border=0>

<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>Don Lucier<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b2d904b3127cce9f7cd9ffdf1d0000003010" border=0>
North Star SR/FK

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MikeM
1st Mate

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72 Posts

Response Posted - 05/16/2003 : 09:30:00

**************WARNING******************

Our friends at CatalinaDirect are sending out the wrong bolt sizes for this C25 bracket kit. I just installed mine yesterday and I think the bolts were for the C27, too long. The compression tubes were also to large for the mast!!!!

The package says C25 but the person who made the kit must have been sleeping on the job and grabbed the C27 bolts!!!

Buyer Beware!

ps. the retorfit is a two man job and took 2 hours, as we had a frozen bolt inside the mast from 1979.

Mike M
Marblehead, MA
C25 #1212

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Buzz Maring
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1772 Posts

Response Posted - 05/16/2003 : 10:04:32

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
**************WARNING******************

Our friends at CatalinaDirect are sending out the wrong bolt sizes for this C25 bracket kit. I just installed mine yesterday and I think the bolts were for the C27, too long. The compression tubes were also to large for the mast!!!!

The package says C25 but the person who made the kit must have been sleeping on the job and grabbed the C27 bolts!!!

Buyer Beware!

ps. the retorfit is a two man job and took 2 hours, as we had a frozen bolt inside the mast from 1979.

Mike M
Marblehead, MA
C25 #1212
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

I just finished this project a couple of weeks ago. You are absolutely right about the parts being too big, Mike ... AND, they will argue with you 'til they're blue in the face that the kits are the same for the C-25 and the C-27. I felt like I was talking to a brick wall.

I had to go back to the boat and measure the bolts that came out of the old spreader brackets, then call CD with the measurements so they wouldn't send me the wrong size again. I finally got the correct size bolts in the mail, but no new compression tubes ... they told me to cut them myself to fit inside the mast. All of that messing around delayed the completion of my project by two weeks ... <img src=icon_smile_angry.gif border=0 align=middle>

I am happy to have a place I can go to for Catalina parts, but we pay high dollar prices for them ... it really bugs me when THEY get it wrong, but treat us like we are somehow responsible for their screw up.

Buzz Maring
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3df23b3127cce9306a9b3abad0000001010" border=0>
~~Freya~~
C-25 SK/SR #68

Edited by - on

MikeM
1st Mate

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72 Posts

Response Posted - 05/16/2003 : 11:28:19

Buzz- Hmm, so it happened to you also. I intend to call them today to reem them out and get the new bolts shipped out overnight.

Fix- I actually took the older triangle brackets and doubled up on teh new ones, acting as a washer which lets me use the longer bolt. That seems to work with added stainless for strength.

Mike M
Marblehead, MA
C25 #1212

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MikeM
1st Mate

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Response Posted - 05/16/2003 : 11:43:59

Buzz- would you happen to have the correct bolt size?

Mike M
Marblehead, MA
C25 #1212

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Buzz Maring
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1772 Posts

Response Posted - 05/16/2003 : 12:08:22

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Buzz- would you happen to have the correct bolt size?

Mike M
Marblehead, MA
C25 #1212
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Hi Mike,

Good luck getting them to overnight anything ... they'll likely ship it by "priority mail."

'Sorry ... I can't remember the correct size. I want to say 4 1/2 inches, but that might be a bum steer. I am going to the boat again today, so I could measure the old bolts for you, but I don't know when I'll be back here to post the correct size.

Maybe you could try this ... when you call them to give them a piece of your mind, you could tell them you know this just happened to me, too. If they keep decent records, they could look up my order to see what replacement bolts they sent me ... the order was placed under "Keith T. Maring" in San Antonio.

'Hope that helps. BTW, for the life of me I can't figure out how you doubled up the new brackets with the old. 'Seems to me there is no way to double them up without cutting off the socket where the spreader attached to the old aluminum bracket ... is that what you did <img src=icon_smile_question.gif border=0 align=middle>

Buzz Maring
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3df23b3127cce9306a9b3abad0000001010" border=0>
~~Freya~~
C-25 SK/SR #68

Edited by - on

MikeM
1st Mate

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72 Posts

Response Posted - 05/16/2003 : 13:27:37

Thanks Buzz, I will have them look up your order.

OK clarification on the double up......

There are two pieces to each side for the older version, the triangle that attaches to the shrouds which is stainless and the aluminum spreader bracket (which we are replacing).

Once I installed the new brackets I had the longer bolt and was pissed, I wanted this finished. So I took the left over triangles (stainless) and fit them over the new triangles (that are part of the bracket assembly). The pins fit through the same holes with plenty of clearance and the triangle acted as a washer letting me use the longer bolt.In addition I now have double the strength on the shrouds. Make sense.

You will see that the triangles are exactly the same and with the larger bolt can accomodate both, I figured why not the extra steel?

Hope that helps.

Mike M
Marblehead, MA
C25 #1212

Edited by - on

Buzz Maring
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1772 Posts

Response Posted - 05/18/2003 : 09:33:25

Hi Mike,

'Just got back from the boat late last night ... the old bolts are 4 inches (CD sent me 4 1/2).

BTW, I'll have to take a look at my old spreader brackets ... I don't think mine came apart, so I couldn't have done what you did to "double up" ... thanks for the explanation.

Good luck with CD!

Buzz Maring
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3df23b3127cce9306a9b3abad0000001010" border=0>
~~Freya~~
C-25 SK/SR #68

Edited by - on

dgabel
1st Mate

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USA
75 Posts

Response Posted - 05/24/2003 : 17:00:40

I hope someone reads this.

I have the new spreader bracket kit from CD. It has a large (1-1/4 in.) and small compression tube.

Now the smaller tube I can figure out from the drawings. It goes on the lower bolt, that goes through the triangle-shaped tang that the shrouds attach to. The old one is still in my mast, and I dropped a bolt through to pin it there.

The larger tube, from the drawings, goes right where the spreader sockets go. That's OK, but what on earth holds it there? One drawing seems to show sheet metal screws there. That means I'll have to drill a hole in the mast to put in the screws, after I get the tube positioned. Is that what you guys did?

More. I want to add a deck light on the spreader. So that means I have to run a feed and ground though the spreader to the light, and down the mast. That means I'd need a separate hole for the screw and one for the wire. Does that sound right?

Finally, I'd have to drill through the compression tube to get the wire into that and then into the spreader. Egad! This is getting downright obnoxious, isn't it?

Does this all sound right? If not, where is my thinking wrong. Help greatly appreciated. I'd have asked this about a month ago, but for the rotten east coast weather this spring.

Thanks,

Dave Gabel
Walkure
1979 fin keel, tall rig
Sail 1484

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