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lubrication for hoisting the main

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JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Initially Posted - 04/24/2003 : 16:39:16

my main has a boltrope, no slides. It seems to be sticking a little, especially near the top, going up or down. It is very hard to winch up the last foot. What product can you recommend to lube the rope?

Indiscipline 1978 FK #398

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John Mason
Admiral

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687 Posts

Response Posted - 04/24/2003 : 17:33:15

Parafin or other hard wax. Don't use beeswax.

John Mason
<img src="http://www.users.qwest.net/~jamason/ali.jpg" border=0>
pronounced "Ali Paroosa"
1982 - FK/SR #3290

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Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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3323 Posts

Response Posted - 04/24/2003 : 18:46:56

McLube is relatively expensive but works extremely well. I use it on the sail tape on the jibs and the headfoil.
Derek

<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3dc30b3127cce942c608d6f1e0000001010" border=0>
TRFK#2262"This Side Up"

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 04/24/2003 : 19:15:23

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>"My main has a boltrope, no slides. It seems to be sticking a little, especially near the top, going up or down. It is very hard to winch up the last foot. "<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Your main has no slides/slugs on the luff, only a bolt rope? How do you flake the sail when stowing it?

<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>Don Lucier<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b2d904b3127cce9f7cd9ffdf1d0000003010" border=0>
North Star SR/FK

Edited by - dlucier on 04/24/2003 19:17:47

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JimB517
Past Commodore

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Response Posted - 04/24/2003 : 19:46:21

Correct, the main has a boltrope sewn onto the sailcloth which is fed into a slot in the mast and hoisted up. There are no slides or slugs. However, flaking is just like with any other sail - we fold the sail back and forth over the boom taking care to put one of the battens on each side. The rope is flexible.

The flaking the main part and putting everything away seems to be the worst part of a day of sailing!

Indiscipline 1978 FK #398

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Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 04/24/2003 : 20:13:07

'JimB517'

Have you considered adding luff slugs and mast gates? I think that would solve more than one problem. In my opinion, wrestling with boltropes in mast slots is for racing purists and dinghies.

-- Leon Sisson

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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7583 Posts

Response Posted - 04/24/2003 : 20:15:30

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>"Correct, the main has a boltrope...There are no slides or slugs."<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

I don't know if I've ever seen a main on a larger boat that wasn't slugged?

<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>Don Lucier<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b2d904b3127cce9f7cd9ffdf1d0000003010" border=0>
North Star SR/FK

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 04/24/2003 : 21:41:40

I even put slugs on my 17' Daysailer's main, since I was keeping the boat in the water. What an improvement! I tried McLube, which I now use with slugs, but no lube I know of helps much with a bolt rope.

Dave Bristle - 1985 C-25 #5032 SR-FK-Dinette-Honda "Passage" in SW CT

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John G-
Admiral

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793 Posts

Response Posted - 04/25/2003 : 00:08:40

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
my main has a boltrope, no slides. It seems to be sticking a little, especially near the top, going up or down. It is very hard to winch up the last foot. What product can you recommend to lube the rope?
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>
 I’ve been using “Fast Track” lubrication sys tem. I got it from West Marine. It has a little applicator, a piece of aluminum with a soft cloth, that you run up and down the mast with a halyard and down haul. It cleans the slot and lubes it. Works great all season. I do the mast slot and each slug. I replace any worn slugs.
Check that the bolt rope is not frayed and the end near the head is tapered. You can use “Fast Track” on the bolt rope itself. The sail will never slide down the mast but it should run up to the top of the mast with ease. You might have your sailmaker stitch the bolt rope near the head a little tighter so it doesn’t bind.
A main with a bolt rope on the luff is primarily a racing main. All the boats I raced on, J35’s and Frers 41’s, all had bolt ropes on the luff of the main. It is substantially faster than a main with slugs. To get the main down we pulled the bolt rope out and either flaked the sail on the boom or with brand new kevlar or carbon fiber mains we rolled them and took them all the way off after each race so they didn’t develop kinks. 

[url="http://www.peregrinefund.org/"]<img src="http://www.peregrinefund.org/images/intro_mid_image.GIF" border=0>[/url]
[url="http://www.catalina25-250.org/photo/peregrine2.jpg"]"Peregrine"[/url] C25-#4762 FK

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 04/25/2003 : 01:20:45

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>"...flaking the main part and putting everything away seems to be the worst part of a day of sailing!"<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Jim,

If this is the worst part of your sailing day and you are just a cruiser, you might want to consider having grommets and slugs added to your main. This will make your life a lot easier when hoisting and dowsing the main, and if you ever install lazy jacks you'll need the sail to come down somewhat easily.

I don't think it would be that expensive to have grommets added to your current main. On my last boat, I had a loft replace all the luff grommets and slides, and perform some stitchwork all for around $80-90.

<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>Don Lucier<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b2d904b3127cce9f7cd9ffdf1d0000003010" border=0>
North Star SR/FK

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Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 04/25/2003 : 08:28:42

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>

Your main has no slides/slugs on the luff, only a bolt rope? How do you flake the sail when stowing it?

<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Don, just out of curiosity, what would the slugs have to do with flaking?

BTW

I don't even flake my main, I roll it (its the way we do it with the mylar sails on the other boat, just got into the habit.)

Fast Track makes a good lube - we use it for the kerf on both the main and the jib on the Evelyn 32

D. Wolff - "The Flying Wasp" #401 sr/sk
Chief Measurer C-25/250 National Assn.
<img src="http://www.flags.com/dreamimages/Flags/measurer.jpg" border=0>

Edited by - Duane Wolff on 04/25/2003 08:31:23

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Bill Holcomb
Admiral

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769 Posts

Response Posted - 04/25/2003 : 09:31:45

Hi Jim,

An inexpensive and effective lube is about a teaspoon or so of liquid dishwashing soap. We used to use this on our cats that didn't have slugs. Squirt some into the palm of your hand and (starting at the head of the sail) rub the soap along the bolt rope for about 1/2 the sail's luff. As you hoist the sail the soap lubricates the sail slot all the way to the masthead.

I still use the soap even though Snickerdoodle's main has slugs.

Bill Holcomb - C25 Snickerdoodle #4839

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John Mason
Admiral

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687 Posts

Response Posted - 04/25/2003 : 13:42:07

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> I don't know if I've ever seen a main on a larger boat that wasn't slugged?<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

A friend of mine owned a Merit 25 and now owns an S2 7.9. Both just had the boltrope. He's a hardcore racer, though. We used candle wax or parafin, worked great.

John Mason
<img src="http://www.users.qwest.net/~jamason/ali.jpg" border=0>
pronounced "Ali Paroosa"
1982 - FK/SR #3290

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JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 04/25/2003 : 14:22:11

The PPO (Previous - Previous Owner) raced our boat extensively. That's the reason she's in such good condition outside - newer rigging, all lines led aft, rope clutches, self tailing winches, epoxy bottom job, computer faired keel, adjustable backstay, etc. Dual headsail rig, 6 sails (110, 135, 150, 155) spinnaker and north sails boltrope battened main).

The PO cruised which is why we have the tiller pilot, and a 155 on a Schafer roller furler, anchor roller, new Honda OB and motor mount, etc. Neither PPO or PO took much care of the inside which is mainly where I have been working.

We are going to be cruisers. All those sails are home in the garage (hank on 135 is in the lazerette in case the roller blows out). I want it to be easy for my wife and daughter to douse and flake the main. I'll try some of the lube suggestions and perhaps have the sail modified this winter for grommets and slides.

Since they are often so busy I have to be prepared to sail single handed as well.

Indiscipline 1978 FK #398

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Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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6855 Posts

Response Posted - 04/25/2003 : 14:40:08

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> I don't know if I've ever seen a main on a larger boat that wasn't slugged?<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Most any racer bigger than 20 feet runs a bolt rope only - both jib and Main

D. Wolff - "The Flying Wasp" #401 sr/sk
Chief Measurer C-25/250 National Assn.
<img src="http://www.flags.com/dreamimages/Flags/measurer.jpg" border=0>

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 04/25/2003 : 19:15:17

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Don, just out of curiosity, what would the slugs have to do with flaking? - Duane<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

I was asking more about the process of gathering the main when dowsing on the water than actually flaking the sail, which can be done easily in port.

I was envisioning him dowsing and gathering his boltroped main(pulling it down and out of the mast slot) and wrestling it in the wind with a bouncing deck. I'm a singlehanded sailor, even when others are aboard, and when I'm on the cabintop dowsing and gathering the main it can be interesting if there's some wind and waves, but it would be that much more of a chore if instead of the luff being still attached to the mast(slugged) it were flailing about attached at only the boom and main halyard.

<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>Don Lucier<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b2d904b3127cce9f7cd9ffdf1d0000003010" border=0>
North Star SR/FK

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 04/25/2003 : 19:34:06

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>...all lines led aft, rope clutches, self tailing winches... I want it to be easy for my wife and daughter to douse and flake the main.... Since they are often so busy I have to be prepared to sail single handed as well.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>
Jim: RUN, DON"T WALK to your local sailmaker and get some slugs put on. When you release your halyard clutch, down comes the main--and the forward part of the sail almost flakes itself on the boom. (You'll have to flake the leach.) Lazy jacks or a Dutchman system improves on that, but basically you can hoist and douse from the cockpit. With a bolt rope, no way.

Dave Bristle - 1985 C-25 #5032 SR-FK-Dinette-Honda "Passage" in SW CT

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 04/25/2003 19:38:41

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JimB517
Past Commodore

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3285 Posts

Response Posted - 04/25/2003 : 20:01:40

Yes, the first time we flaked the main we were in 10 knot cross winds motoring down our fairway. It was sticky at the top and my wife could not get it started down. I went forward and she had to steer around a bunch of canoes (mild panic). Once it started down, she went back up and pulled the whole thing down in a heap. It was blowing off the boat due to the cross wind. Quite a mess but we got it done while weaving around 10 canoes.

I learned to stand up on the port cockpit cushion and steer the boat with only one toe on the tiller - anyone else do that?!? Works great, and you can see over the crowd on the cabintop.

The 2nd time we rolled the genny and doused the main outside the harbor (less traffic) while pointing upwind. Sail didn't stick this time. We used all 3 crew on the job while my youngest daughter kept her headed into the wind (almost). One slowly pulled down the sail while the other two flaked it while it was coming down. A couple of wraps around the winch kept it from coming down all at once.

Indiscipline 1978 FK #398

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 04/25/2003 : 20:02:14

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>RUN, DON"T WALK to your local sailmaker and get some slugs put on.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

If it were me, not only would I run to the sailmaker, I would...dare I say it...I would even take a powerboat to the sailmaker!

<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>Don Lucier<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b2d904b3127cce9f7cd9ffdf1d0000003010" border=0>
North Star SR/FK

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Bristle
Admiral

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USA
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Response Posted - 04/25/2003 : 20:22:27

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Yes, the first time we flaked the main we were in 10 knot cross winds motoring down our fairway. It was sticky at the top and my wife could not get it started down.... The 2nd time we rolled the genny and doused the main outside the harbor (less traffic) while pointing upwind.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>
Well, Jim... To qualify my remarks (as an unqualified Master Marine Consultant), the main isn't going to fall down if it isn't luffing--slides or boltrope. You need to luff the main to douse it, and nose-to-wind is best (for keeping it out of the water).

Dave Bristle, 1985 C-25 #5032 SR-FK-Dinette-Honda "Passage" in SW CT

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