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Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Need motor advice...

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albertfinn
Deckhand

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7 Posts

Initially Posted - 04/26/2003 : 20:52:56

I found a Catalina 25, 1982 model in good shape, which I am going to buy.

With respect to motor, it has a 1980s era 7.5hp OB without alternator. One thing I want to do is replace this with a 4 stroke engine with an alternator so that I can hook it into my battery.

The queesion is this: I found a 1997 Honda 4 stroke 8hp with alternator which I am considering buying. Do any of you have advice on the optimal HP OB for the C-25? Is 8HP adequate?

Thanks, and I have to say that using your board has given me confidence that a C-25 is a good boat for me to buy. The information I have obtained here has been invaluable in my search for the right boat!

Edited by - on

John V.
Admiral

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USA
559 Posts

Response Posted - 04/26/2003 : 21:20:57

an 8 hp honda will be fine for a C25. you will find that the boat will move well once up to 5 kts or so at about half throttle. The Honda only produces about 60 watts or 5 amps of power which will keep up with the basic power needs like cabin lighting and nav lights but will not keep up with electronics with a higher draw. Is the motor a long shaft? measure from the transom to the cavitation plate. For the c25 that should be 24 inches. I hope this helps. the main thing is to be sure the shaft is long enough.

John V. Nin Bimash II
77 C25 sk/sr #153

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 04/26/2003 : 21:45:02

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Is 8HP adequate?<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

I use an 8hp motor 2-stroke and it is plenty enough for my fin keeled C25.

<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>Don Lucier<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b2d904b3127cce9f7cd9ffdf1d0000003010" border=0>
North Star SR/FK

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Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 04/26/2003 : 21:47:05

albertfinn,

I agree completely with John V. Four stroke is the way to go, 8HP is enough, long shaft is crucial. Be sure to get a high thrust prop (3 or 4 large, low pitch blades). Electric start is nice, but don't sweat it.

If the "1980's era 7.5HP O.B. w/o alternator" runs, it should be easy to resell. If you sell high and buy low, you might not have to spend much at all to upgrade to a used Honda.

Also, a 10w UniSolar panel would nicely round out a very basic charging system. If there's more than one battery, throw in a combiner. Both the UniSolar and the combiner are available via Internet mail order for about 50% retail, maybe $100 & $40.

Good luck!<img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle>

-- Leon Sisson

Edited by - on

Dave B
Admiral

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Mali
863 Posts

Response Posted - 04/26/2003 : 23:22:28

I agree that 8 is just fine--in 1997 had the advantage over the 9.9 of being considerably lighter. The new 8 and 9.9 (since 2001) are essentially identical.

If you expect to motor in any significant chop, the shaft length issue becomes key. As the boat pitches fore-and-aft, it tends to lift the prop (and cooling intake) out, causing lots of screaming and a loss of power. The anticavitation plate should be several inches (4-5) below the waterline when the bracket is down. The long-shaft Honda 8 measures about 22" from the top of the bracket to the anticavitation plate. The extra-long is just short of 28", but they didn't make many 8hp engines with XL shafts back then. Take some measurements to be sure you'll have enough depth.

If you'll be sailing on inland lakes, a couple of inches of depth will probably suffice, although boat wakes may cause some noise once in a while.

Enjoy your new Cat!

Dave Bristle, 1985 C-25 #5032 "Passage" SR/FK/Dinette/Honda

Edited by - on

Douglas
Master Marine Consultant

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1595 Posts

Response Posted - 04/27/2003 : 12:31:47

I would like to know where you sail. I had used an 8Hp Honda up in the San Juan Islands. It was great most of the time. It wasn't an extra long shaft so if I got into any real weather it would come out of the water when going over a good wave. Price is also a consideration. Solar panel (a good one) will do as much good as the tiny alternator and cost a lot less. A good flex one.

Doug&Ruth
Triska (Alberg 29)
Tacoma Wa.

Edited by - on

77Gypsy
Captain

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USA
356 Posts

Response Posted - 04/27/2003 : 12:35:13

an 8hp should be fine, catalina recommends between 7.5 and 10, i personally have a honda 9,9 4 stroke but a NEW 8hp 2 stroke with elec start are pretty cheap, light and work great, you can find new ones for around $1200.00

Steven de Filippis
78 C25 SR/FK - Gypsy

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Craigpho
Deckhand

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Canada
2 Posts

Response Posted - 04/28/2003 : 16:23:57

I am a recent acquirer of a catalina 25 and am thinking about replacing the motor..I was told a new 5hp (sail drive) would be fine for a boat this size...Any toughts? Craig

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 04/28/2003 : 21:14:21

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>I was told a new 5hp (sail drive) would be fine for a boat this size...Any toughts?<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

I think the 5hp is too small for this boat, especially if you are going to sail on Lake Ontario. Due to the mass of the C25, I wouldn't use anything smaller than 8hp.

<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>Don Lucier<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b2d904b3127cce9f7cd9ffdf1d0000003010" border=0>
North Star SR/FK

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Dave B
Admiral

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Mali
863 Posts

Response Posted - 04/28/2003 : 22:44:44

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
I am a recent acquirer of a catalina 25 and am thinking about replacing the motor..I was told a new 5hp (sail drive) would be fine for a boat this size...Any toughts? Craig
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>
Craig: By "sail drive" do you mean an outboard-like lower unit mounted through the hull? If so, 5hp may be adequate. Be sure whoever is telling you that knows the boat is about 5500 lbs. And if you don't already have a sail drive installed, think long and hard about doing it.

If you're talking about an outboard, 5 hp is too weak for the Great Lakes, and the longest shaft you'll find is 20", which is a bad buy for Lake Ontario.

Dave Bristle, 1985 C-25 #5032 "Passage" SR/FK/Dinette/Honda

Edited by - on

Craigpho
Deckhand

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Canada
2 Posts

Response Posted - 04/29/2003 : 14:43:19

Thanks guys, thats great advice..5hp will definaately be too small...So the question is 8 or 10...Sounds like many are using a 8hp....And any thoughts on the 4 stroke or 2 stroke? The dealor said a lot of sailors are complaining about their 4 strokes which seem to have a tough time starting after heeling a good bit..Craig

Edited by - on

Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 04/29/2003 : 15:30:04

Craig,<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>And any thoughts on the 4 stroke or 2 stroke?<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>I've had several of each. I strongly prefer a 4-stroke as an auxilary on a sailboat. Either one will work, but I predict you'd get real tired of the 2-stroke smoke issue. Also, the enviromentalists are closing on for the kill on 2-strokes.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>... 4 strokes which seem to have a tough time starting after heeling a good bit.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>B.S. I've had several Hondas and a Yamaha 4-stroke on the back of two monohull sailboats. They all started just fine if the carbs were kept clean (no stale gas). There's nothing inherent in the design of a 4-stroke that would make them harder than a 2-stroke to start after healing. The dealer in question should give the people who design these things a bit more credit for not being complete idiots. Sorry about the ranting tone, I'm feeling much better now.<img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle>

-- Leon Sisson

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Dave B
Admiral

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Mali
863 Posts

Response Posted - 04/29/2003 : 20:58:55

Craig: It comes down to your tastes and your situation (as usual). 2-strokes are cheaper, less complicated, LIGHTER, and generally a good solution for somebody who just needs a kick to get away from the ramp or out of a slip. 4-strokes are smoother, quieter, less smelly, HEAVIER, more expensive, burn about half the fuel (with no oil mixture), and are great if you plan to cruise--the wind isn't always on your side, or present at all.

You pays yer money and you takes yer choice.

Dave Bristle, 1985 C-25 #5032 "Passage" SR/FK/Dinette/Honda

Edited by - on

martinsokolowski
Deckhand

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16 Posts

Response Posted - 05/25/2003 : 20:32:19

Albert,

I took a hard look at this very issue last year. I wanted a 4 stroke and really wanted a Honda. Aside from price I found 2 drawbacks:

It is awfully heavy! Putting it on and off the motor mount has 2 be a 2 person job. Beef up the motor mount if you use this motor. This weight is also an issue when raising and lowering the engine in and out of the water.

Second, a 4-stroke needs the oil changed periodically like your car. With the configuation of the drain plug on the Honda I do not see any way of changing the oil when the motor is on the boat without spilling oil into the lake. If you trialer your boat this should not be a problem, but I keep my boat at a slip. Now we ar back to lifting the motor off the boat again!

In the end I bought a 9.9 hp 2-stroke Nissan with battery start and long shaft. The battery start feature includes an alternator to recharge the battery when the motor is in use. It only weighs 70 pounds! The motor is a DREAM! Even when not used for 3 or 4 months it starts immediately at the touch of the electric start. I have a couple of blocks rigged to raise and lower the motor from the cockpit and it is really easy. And it is extremly fuel efficient. From Boat US it was only $1,600.

Martin Sokolowski
Plano, TX
martin.sokolowski@verizon.net
Catalina 25, hull #742

Edited by - on

Dave B
Admiral

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Mali
863 Posts

Response Posted - 05/25/2003 : 21:43:53

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
It is awfully heavy!...
Second, a 4-stroke needs the oil changed periodically...
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>
I'll add... It costs more.

So there you have it. To each his own. The 4-stroke owners have found the reasons to prefer 4-strokes--smootness, quietness, lack of smoke, and no oil left in the water. (With the Honda, a longer shaft and stronger alternator. And forget about oil changes--you need to do that about as often as you change the gear oil, which you have to do in a 2-stroke as well.)

2-stokers like the lighter weight, simpler operation (essentially a chainsaw with a propeller), and lower cost. (Some, like Yamaha, burn 100-1 mix and therefore generate less smoke than the traditional Johnson/Evinrude/Mercury smokers.)

Ya pays yer money and ya takes yer choice.

Dave Bristle, 1985 C-25 #5032 "Passage" SR/FK/Dinette/Honda in SW CT

Edited by - on

steephen
Navigator

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100 Posts

Response Posted - 05/26/2003 : 16:48:41

Has anyone out there faired out the mounting bracket so that the shaft line of the prop aligns with the keel? My engine-drop bracket leaves the prop pointing to port maybe ten degrees. Does this matter? Does one fair out where the bracket mounts to the transom, or where the engine mounts on the bracket?

Stephen Z

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Dave B
Admiral

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Mali
863 Posts

Response Posted - 05/26/2003 : 17:31:05

Stephen: I take it you're talking about the angle of the bracket due to the curvature of the transom. I think most of us just turn the motor to a position that makes the boat run straight with no tiller pressure, and then use the steering damper to hold it in that position. That angle may not be exactly in plane with the keel, since the bracket is offset to one side of the transom. If you're motor only locks in a centered position, that may counteract the slight turning force from being off center. Most motors have the damper that allows you to set them at any angle.

Dave Bristle, 1985 C-25 #5032 "Passage" SR/FK/Dinette/Honda in SW CT

Edited by - dave b on 05/26/2003 17:32:53

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Brooke Willson
Admiral

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USA
983 Posts

Response Posted - 05/27/2003 : 09:24:55

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>I predict you'd get real tired of the 2-stroke smoke issue. Also, the enviromentalists are closing on for the kill on 2-strokes. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

I know this is a personal preference/tolerance matter, but I've never found the smoke issue very significant, especially above idle when the exhaust is exiting through the prop hub. As for the environmentalists (blessed be their name), in most places you will not be able to BUY a new 2 stroke after 2005, but that doesn't mean the green police are going to chase you down and arrest you for using one after that date (unless you are on a freshwater lake/reservoir). I intend to use my simple, reliable, and light weight 2 stroker until it dies. And then, I may try to find another!

Brooke

Edited by - brooke willson on 05/27/2003 09:26:42

Edited by - brooke willson on 05/27/2003 09:29:07

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 05/27/2003 : 14:53:12

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Either one will work, but I predict you'd get real tired of the 2-stroke smoke issue.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

To all you guys who keep advocating that 2 strokes do nothing more than belch smoke, I'd like to invite you down to my boat and we'll fire up my 1995 8hp Mercury and I want YOU to show me the smoke! I'll tell you what...you ain't gonna find any.

I'm not saying that 2 strokes aren't capable of being smokey, because ALL engines are capable of smoking. Go in any subdivision and I'll bet you'll find plenty of smoking 4-stroke mowers, hell, even my well maintained 4 stroke Toro belches smoke on startup. To insinuate that a 4-stroke is incapable of smoking is ludicrous, so get off the high horse!

<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>Don Lucier<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b2d904b3127cce9f7cd9ffdf1d0000003010" border=0>
North Star SR/FK

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Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 05/27/2003 : 16:22:13

ditto don

D. Wolff - "The Flying Wasp" #401 sr/sk
Chief Measurer C-25/250 National Assn.
<img src="http://www.flags.com/dreamimages/Flags/measurer.jpg" border=0>

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