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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

"Rust" on keel

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albertfinn
Deckhand

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7 Posts

Initially Posted - 04/27/2003 : 21:05:19

I am the guy looking to buy a Catalina 25. I looked at a 1982 fin keel model today which looks good in most respects and which I plan to buy, but I have one concern I hope some of you can speak to.

There were what appeared to be rust spots on the keel in various places. Were the 1982 model keels lead or another material? If not lead, aren't they encased in fiberglass in any case? As long as the bottom is maintained/painted etc. does anyone think this is an issue which warrants further concern?

Thanks as usual for your input

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Dennis Pierce
1st Mate

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USA
59 Posts

Response Posted - 04/28/2003 : 07:58:23

Every time I get a bill from the diver, it notes that I have 30-50 rust spots the size of a dime on my keel. When I finally got a chance to talk to the diver, he assured me it was no problem. The threaded rod that holds the keel on the boat is another subject. The rod, nuts and washers used to hold the keel on the hull have some minor rust that showed through the paint applied by the PO. I cleaned them up and applied another coat of white Rustoleum.

Dennis Pierce
Gypsy Witch #1719

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John Mason
Admiral

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USA
687 Posts

Response Posted - 04/28/2003 : 15:36:49

My '82 fin keel is cast iron. I haul out in the winter and see the occasional small rust spot. Not a big deal.

Next winter project, hopefully, is to drop the keel, replace the keel bolts, sandblast the keel and encase it in fiberglass in an effort to eliminate keel maintenance. As it is though, there's really not all that much maintenance. My keel seems to have a pretty good layer of bondo/fairing material/something? under the bottom paint.

John Mason
<img src="http://www.users.qwest.net/~jamason/ali.jpg" border=0>
pronounced "Ali Paroosa"
1982 - FK/SR #3290

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albertfinn
Deckhand

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7 Posts

Response Posted - 04/28/2003 : 16:31:51

Thanks! This board is great, as usual! The hull on this boat hasn't been painted for a few years, so the first thing I am going to do is paint the hull, first using a primer on the keel as recommended by interlux. Anybody else here in the Charleston, SC area?

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A Devries
Deckhand

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21 Posts

Response Posted - 04/28/2003 : 17:44:29

Albert it's Albert here also with a 82 fin keel. I cleaned and refaired the keel last year. I am more than happy to share my findings.
The keel was cast in Mexico judging by the big Mexico in the casting on the starboard side. It isn't encased in fibreglass just covered in filler to fair the shape. The casting on our boat is good on one side and terrible on the other. There are holes the size of your hand that are an inch deep and are ragged like Swiss cheese. They are impossible to clean up. I think I'll have to redo those areas every couple of years unless I hear of a better solution. I covered the bare keel with interlux 2000 barrier coat faired it using epoxy resin and west medium density filler then recovered it again with the 2000. I found a axe to be the best for chipping off the old fairing compound,then a grinder and sandblasting
It took a couple of days of steady work to finsh it.
If any one reading this knows how I can better deal with my Swiss cheese areas I'll be checking back.
Albert best of luck! My back is very glad I'm not doing that again anytime soon.

Edited by - A Devries on 04/28/2003 17:45:30

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Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 04/28/2003 : 18:13:52

albertfinn,

I've reconditioned two iron swing keels. The same procedures should work for any external iron keel. Here's a reprint of a [url="http://trailersailor.com/forums/tsarchives6/index.cgi?read=154102"]description[/url] I posted on [url="http://trailersailor.com"]trailersailor.com[/url]

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>After removing the keel from the boat, I had it sandblasted to "bright" metal. Done right, this is so not fun that I cheerfully paid someone else to do it both times, even though I own a sandblaster and two compressors.

As soon as I got the keel back from blasting, I etched it with hydrochloric acid (a.k.a. industrial strength toilet bowl cleaner - be carefull!) to remove the rust remaining in tiny pores, rinsed it with lots of water, and then treated it with two coats of phosphoric acid (a.k.a. "Ospho"). After that was thoroughly dry, I used a stiff nylon scrub brush to remove any dusty residue. Keep a garden hose handy when working with strong acids. Don't let acid spills remain on concrete that you care about. Don't wear clothes that you care about for any of this work. I believe it's very important to get rid of all existing rust before encapsulating the keel. I think we've all seen how even a small amount of rust expands and spreads over time, even under a waterproof coating such as paint. At this point, the surface of the keel looks like pitted moonscape.

Next, I applied two coats of WEST epoxy. This is done to seal the iron from exposure to oxygen, including water. At this point, the surface of the keel still looks like moonscape, but with a glaze.

Then I made up fairing putty from WEST with filler additives (407), and rough faired the keel. If one were to get lazy, and apply bottom paint before this step, and then at some later point in time decide to fair the keel, getting the paint off of the rough surface (glazed moonscape) would surely be an agrevating task (a.k.a. big pain in the ...). The main intent here is to fill pits. However, if any unusual high spots (casting flaws) show up, grind them down level with the surrounding surface.

After rough fairing, I wrapped the keel in two layers of 14oz. fiberglass cloth and WEST epoxy. This was done to protect it from misc. abrasion in the future. This step also serves to assure at least a minmum thickness of epoxy over any raw cast iron high spots that may have become exposed while sanding down the rough fairing.

At this point I also added a bronze shoe where the keel runs aground, and piled on several more layers of cloth and epoxy in that area, and along the leading edge. On the first keel I did, I tried leaving off the bronze shoe. The fiberglass quickly wore away where the keel touched bottom in shallow water. This exposed the cast iron to salt water, and the rust got started again.

If you're the kind of sailor who will never run aground, feel free to skip this step. (If you're the kind of sailor who will never run aground, you can probably walk on water, too.)

I then did another round of final fairing on top of the fiberglass (WEST with 410). That was followed by another two or three coats of epoxy resin to protect the soft fairing putty from damage during future bottom cleaning.

I then applied copolymer bottom paint and reinstalled the keel.

The hardest part of all this by far was dealing with the weight of the keel. The 500# one could be wrestled around by three people. The 1,500# one was a bit more of a challenge.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

If there can be a good side to all this work, it's that if you do it right, you don't have to do it again.

Good luck with whatever method you decide to use.

-- Leon Sisson

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