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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Mast Step Warp

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Bill Sloane
1st Mate

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USA
91 Posts

Initially Posted - 04/28/2003 : 11:26:15

Splashed my boat on Saturday after 5 months on the hard. Made a novice mistake and did not cinch down the mast step pivot bolt all the way when raising the mast. The mast went sideways at about 45 degrees up, warped the mast step and partially pulled one of the lag bolts out of the top of the deck.

I took the mast step off the boat and the bottom and one side are warped out of plane. I think that a local weld shop can probably reshape it fairly easily. I have heard it should be reshaped cold? Any advice? I will buy some new lag bolts and I am thinking that I will inject the existing screw holes on top of the deck with a quick set epoxy before installing the step. Also I noticed that my lag bolts are relatively short. The two stern bolts are 1 1/2" and the two bow bolts are 1 1/4" long. They do not seem very long for what they are holding. I am thinking I should buy two inch ones. From what I can tell, they lag into the wood post directly below the mast in the cabin.

Any comments or advice appreciated.

Bill

C-25 SK/SR No. 496.

Edited by - on

LeighMarie
Navigator

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USA
188 Posts

Response Posted - 04/28/2003 : 12:18:00

I'm certainly not the technical guy on this forum, but I just put a new hayard mast step plate under my exisiting mast plate a week ago, so I know which bolts and holes you're talking about. However, my 1985 SW C25 had bolts that go all the way through the top deck and I have a washer, split ring washer and nuts on the inside of the cabin. They are just fore and aft of the compression post in the cabin (obviously in the cabin they're in the ceiling). In putting the halyard plate in there (had to redrill those holes), I went to 3&1/2" bolts for the stern bolts and 3" bolts for the bow bolts. They are now about each 1/4" too long, as the original bolts were'nt quite long enough and the halyard plate isn't 1/4" thick and I could only get bolts in 1/2" increments. So, I put another nut on each bolt in the cabin and then put the decorative end-nuts back on to dress them up a bit.

For what it's worth!

Dave & Sharon on "Leigh-Marie"
Hull #5128

Edited by - on

John Mason
Admiral

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USA
687 Posts

Response Posted - 04/28/2003 : 15:47:11

Thru-bolts, I think, are an owner done modification. As stated above, the bolts miss the compression post.

If you fill the holes with epoxy putty and then redrill and use the original lag bolts you'll be fine. There's enough compression load on the plate from the shrouds and stays that it's not going to go anywhere.

Cold form it. I did it with my bench vise at home. Not a difficult thing to do.

John Mason
<img src="http://www.users.qwest.net/~jamason/ali.jpg" border=0>
pronounced "Ali Paroosa"
1982 - FK/SR #3290

Edited by - on

Bill Holcomb
Admiral

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USA
769 Posts

Response Posted - 04/28/2003 : 16:41:20

Hey John,

There was a "running change" in 1984/85 (I think) that went from the 4-lag bolt attachment for the mast step to 4-thru deck bolts. Some owners who have had problems similar to Bill's have retrofitted to a through bolt system as well. A lot of energy is being held by the mast step when raising or lowering the "stick".

Bill - Do you still have one of the original aluminum mast steps? If so, it might be a good time to swap it for the stainless steel version. There's a good chance that your accident has crystalized some of the metal in your present mast step.

Bill Holcomb - C25 Snickerdoodle #4839

Edited by - on

A Devries
Deckhand

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21 Posts

Response Posted - 04/28/2003 : 17:08:37

Bill; I just installed through bolts for the mast step on our 82 fin keel. Two of the bolts are in the head area. the other two are inside the compression post. You just have to dig out a little spot for them inside the post. I'm fairly certain 2 1/2 x 1/4 bolts was that I used. I feel a lot better knowing the step will stay in place when I raise and lower the mast. It started to come up last fall as I lowered the mast. I was luckly it didn't pop right off. As your boat is a swinger the post may not be in exactly the same place. If you do use 2" screws you may find them sticking out of the cabin ceiling. Good Luck
Albert

Edited by - on

Raskal
Navigator

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USA
162 Posts

Response Posted - 04/28/2003 : 17:29:29

Bill,
I recently bought the replacement stainless mast step and halyard plate from Catalina Direct and I can tell you they are impressively thick and hard compared with the original step on my '84. These were not expensive (I think $35 for the step?) so you might want to get the better step plate if you're going to do all the work.

One idea I'm looking at is using a spare L-shaped chainplate as support on the V-berth ceiling where the new bolts for my halyard plate will go ('84 didn't have halyard plate as original equipment). With all of the damage to your deck this might be helpful form of support. I got my chainplate used, but they must be available new from CD. I've found that Titanium drill bits will make it through these stainless pieces with a hand drill if you alternate some drilling with pouring a little 3-in-1 oil into the hole, going in stages.

Rich Kokoska 1984 C25 FK/SR #4603 "Coolatta", Groton, CT

Edited by - on

John Mason
Admiral

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USA
687 Posts

Response Posted - 04/28/2003 : 17:42:36

Thanks for the info, Bill H.

I didn't even think about the raising/lower forces - Doh!<img src=icon_smile_blackeye.gif border=0 align=middle>

John Mason
<img src="http://www.users.qwest.net/~jamason/ali.jpg" border=0>
pronounced "Ali Paroosa"
1982 - FK/SR #3290

Edited by - on

Bill Sloane
1st Mate

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USA
91 Posts

Response Posted - 04/28/2003 : 17:45:52

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> Do you still have one of the original aluminum mast steps? <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>
John: My mast step is stainless steel, pretty beefy. I just measured it, it appears to be 3/32" thick shaped stainless steel plate. My boat is a '78, so this must be a replacement step. If I can cold form it back into shape on my bench vice, it looks like it will be fine. I like the idea of through bolting with longer bolts. I will have to see if all 4 bolts are in the compression post area or if two of them are above the head where I can through bolt.

Thanks for the help, looks like I have some work to do this weekend. Good job I splashed the boat a week earlier than I was planning.

Bill.

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 04/28/2003 : 17:49:07

Bill, I'm likely reacting wrong to your post...but it doesn't cost either of us anything to have clarity.

You said, "Made a novice mistake and did not cinch down the mast step pivot bolt all the way when raising the mast. "

From that, it could possibly be construed that your thinking had it (the pivot bolt) compressed the step latterally to the mast it would have held the mast laterally... which of course it can't do. The mast must be held laterally by some system or manpower until the shrouds firm up as it reaches its standing position.

Arlyn C-250 W/B #224
<img src="http://www.stewartfam.net/arlyn/rr.jpg" border=0>
N/E Texas and Great Lakes

[url="http://www.cox-internet.com/arlynstewart/"]Arlyn's C250 Mods n Cruisin Stories[/url]

Edited by - on

Earl Landers
Navigator

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USA
157 Posts

Response Posted - 04/28/2003 : 18:36:55

Arlyn,
Thanks for asking, I was wondering that also.

Earl Landers
'83 C25 SR/SK
"Gentle Spirit"

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 04/28/2003 : 18:51:10

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>"Made a novice mistake and did not cinch down the mast step pivot bolt all the way when raising the mast."<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

The mast step pivot bolt is not to be tightened down when raising the mast. It must be secure, yet loose enough to allow the bolt to move up and down in the step slot as the mast is raised or lowered.

Additionally, this is a note from the Stepping the Mast section of the C25 owners manual,

IMPORTANT: Be careful not to twist the mast or allow it to move to one side of centerline while raising the mast, as this may cause the mast step to break.

<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>Don Lucier<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b2d904b3127cce9f7cd9ffdf1d0000003010" border=0>
North Star SR/FK

Edited by - on

Bill Sloane
1st Mate

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USA
91 Posts

Response Posted - 04/28/2003 : 19:04:40

Well the mast took off to the port side. The bolt was loose. I thought it might need to be tight, but that appears to be wrong. I had one guy pulling on the boom vang that was attached to the jib halyard and the bow of the boat. I was lifting the mast at the back. There were two of us. Things were looking good until it went to port at somewhere around 30 to 45 degrees.

How many Catalina sailors does it take to raise a mast?!?

Bill.
'78 C-25 SK/SR No. 496

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 04/28/2003 : 19:25:09

Bill... the mast is wont to go sideways and must be stabilized by some method. I don't think one man on a C25 mast is considered near adequate... I will leave that answer up to the C25 bunch.

Thanks for coming back at us so we can help... I think other than having professionals raise the mast... that the Huntington rig is one of the most popular methods to do it... and it is well described in the tech section of this association.

Good luck....

Arlyn C-250 W/B #224
<img src="http://www.stewartfam.net/arlyn/rr.jpg" border=0>
N/E Texas and Great Lakes

[url="http://www.cox-internet.com/arlynstewart/"]Arlyn's C250 Mods n Cruisin Stories[/url]

Edited by - on

John Mason
Admiral

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USA
687 Posts

Response Posted - 04/28/2003 : 19:45:22

If you don't have an A-frame or some other lateral support. I'd say four. One lifting the mast, one pulling on the halyard or other line coming from the masthead and two at the mast step for lifting help and lateral support. Unless the guy lifting the mast is a gorilla and can lift the mast and make the step from the cockpit seat to the cabin top while making sure none of the shrouds snag on anything, then two.

With my mast raising rig set up, it takes one.

John Mason
<img src="http://www.users.qwest.net/~jamason/ali.jpg" border=0>
pronounced "Ali Paroosa"
1982 - FK/SR #3290

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