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DF Transducer Location

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billob
Deckhand

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15 Posts

Initially Posted - 04/29/2003 : 11:40:49

I'm in the processing of buying a C25. I want to install a depth finder.
What is the best location for a thru-hull transducer for a DF ?
Has anyone done the "in-hull" transducer ? If so where did you locate that and how did you enclose it ?
Thanks
Bill

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luckystar
Navigator

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USA
236 Posts

Response Posted - 04/29/2003 : 13:39:59

I'm about to install mine in the vberth. there is a nice flatish area just ahead of the drain tohull and after inspecting under the hull it looks like it will be less than 10 degress of angle so that fits the manufacturers requirements. I'll be installing a knotmeter paddle wheel on the other side.

Patrick Burnett, Little Rock, AR
S/V Lucky Star #2707 1982 SK/SR 
<img src="http://www.proxycreative.com/clients/luckystar/luckystar_0602_sm.jpg" border=0> 
http://www.proxycreative.com/luckystar.html

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Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 04/29/2003 : 14:05:18

Bill,

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Has anyone done the "in-hull" transducer? If so where did you locate that and how did you enclose it?<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

I'm going to assume you're asking about a shoot-through-the-hull type installation. The one where you don't have to cut holes in the hull below the waterline.

There are a few ways to do that. I installed my depth transducer inside a large PVC pipe threaded adapter, or cleanout, fitted and glued to the hull. I located it in the locker under the V-berth, on centerline, as far aft as possible.

Be sure to test for hull transparancy before commiting to a particular location. I tested by spilling a puddle of water where I planned on installing the transducer housing. I then jury-rigged the wiring just enough to motor around and do a few depth checks. On puddle-resistant locations, I've heard of people using a baggy of water, or a gob of peanutbutter.

Once the transparancy checked out OK, I trimmed the PVC pipe to the shape of the hull and glued it down water tight, routed my wiring neatly, etc. I drilled a hole in the PVC cap large enough to pass the connector on the transducer cable.

I used a transom-style transducer which required maybe a 6" PVC housing with the transducer bracket mounted to the sidewall. A more typical thru-hull style transducer will fit in a smaller piece of PVC, and can be mounted to the screw on lid, or just left standing upright in there surrounded by a puddle of liquid. I used distilled water myself. Every year I check it, and add a few ounces if needed.

Another variation is to glue the transducer straight to the inside of the hull, and skip thePVC and pool of liquid. I called the fishfinder factory when I was preparing to do mine, and they specifically said not to use silicon sealant because it dampens and absorbs too much of the SONAR pulse energy. They suggested using epoxy. I asked about the possibility that the transducer might have to be removed at some point in the future. They suggested a sledge hammer. But then, they're in the business of selling transducers.<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

-- Leon Sisson

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77Gypsy
Captain

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USA
356 Posts

Response Posted - 04/29/2003 : 15:08:58

i would stay away from any system that requires making a hole through the bottom. stick with the ones that see through it

Steven de Filippis
78 C25 SR/FK - Gypsy

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seads
1st Mate

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USA
90 Posts

Response Posted - 04/29/2003 : 16:34:47

Why do you say that? Do the "see through the hull types" work well enough to rely on consistently? I am going to be co-owner of the boat billob mentions above and we are weighing our options RE types of transducers. We would prefer not to drill a hole for a transducer if possible. On the other hand, we want to kow that we are getting consistent and reliable depth information.

If you can convince me that a "see through the hull type" will work well, I'll be happy.

THANKS!

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luckystar
Navigator

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USA
236 Posts

Response Posted - 04/29/2003 : 17:04:24

Drill the hole. That's what 3M 5200 is for. I'm using Raymarine products and the instructions are very thorough and have been installed in tons of boats without leaks. Heck, the old depth transducer from the SR Mariner brand that was installed 21 years ago was thru hull and never one problem. Just follow the instructions, glob 5200 where they say and the compression fitting will do the rest! Good luck.

Patrick Burnett, Little Rock, AR
S/V Lucky Star #2707 1982 SK/SR 
<img src="http://www.proxycreative.com/clients/luckystar/luckystar_0602_sm.jpg" border=0> 
http://www.proxycreative.com/luckystar.html

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Bill Holcomb
Admiral

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USA
769 Posts

Response Posted - 04/30/2003 : 11:38:13

Hi Bill,

I installed a fish-finder 18 years ago in Snickerdoodle. I decided at that time to epoxy the transducer to the inside of the V-berth locker near the thru-hull fitting for the sink drain from the head's sink. This system has worked quite well all these years.

System for installation was: 1) Use a wire brush to remove the paint on the bottom of the V-berth locker where the transducer was to be mounted. 2) Make a dam of cardboard and tape to keep the epoxy from running all over the bottom of the V-berth. 3) Mix up a batch of two-part epoxy (about 1 to 2 oz of resin) and pour it into the circle dam. 4) Put the transducer in the epoxy with the proper forward/aft orientation and "wiggle" the transducer around in the epoxy a little bit to remove any air bubbles. Wait for the epoxy to cure and hook up the system.

Bill Holcomb - C25 Snickerdoodle #4839

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markolito
1st Mate

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Italy
95 Posts

Response Posted - 04/30/2003 : 15:21:27

leon and others..

I want to go away from through-hull transducers. I want to install a fish finder because i love diving and it's a good tool to look for wrecks. Most are transom mount transducers. Leon explains that his was transom mount. Somehow i can't picture it.. you basically have a pipe glued to the hull, filled with water? that's all you need to make a tansom mount into a shoot-through-the-hull transducer?

<img src="http://www.response-marketing.com/beta/plaa.jpg" border=0>
1980 SR/SK "Wet Pretzel"

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Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 04/30/2003 : 15:54:31

markolito,<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>... you basically have a pipe glued to the hull, filled with water? That's all you need to make a tansom mount into a shoot-through-the-hull transducer?<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>Yes, that's it. That's all I did. After the puddle of water test, I took the transducer to the PVC store and bought the smallest cleanout adapter that it would fit in. To attach the transducer transom bracket to the inside of the pipe, I layed the pipe on its side, made a tape dam, and poured a puddle of reinforced epoxy resin to form a thick flat spot. Once the epoxy cured, I drilled and tapped it for bracket mounting screws. Obviously, the transducer has to be oriented the same way it would have been if installed according to the directions. And of course the threaded end of the PVC needs to point more or less up, so the water stays in.

And yes, I used a fishfinder, and it can see the dinner sized fishes just fine. It doesn't seem to pick up fish smaller than about a pound, but neither do I.<img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle> Bottom structure is very readable. Aerated water (prop wash) temporarily blinds the fishfinder (it flashes the last known good depth), but it quickly recovers on its own.

Let me know if you need more details.

-- Leon Sisson

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John Mason
Admiral

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USA
687 Posts

Response Posted - 04/30/2003 : 17:51:02

The "see thru the hull" transducers work fine. Just takes a glob of epoxy per Bill's instructions above.

Why drill a hole and make more work if you don't have to?

Most fish finder type DF's come with the transom mount transducers, but have the "see thru the hull" transducers available. IMO the fish finders are the only way to go. Why just see a number, when you can see bottom composition and more as well?

John Mason
<img src="http://www.users.qwest.net/~jamason/ali.jpg" border=0>
pronounced "Ali Paroosa"
1982 - FK/SR #3290

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markolito
1st Mate

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Italy
95 Posts

Response Posted - 04/30/2003 : 20:13:07

hello all,

I am ready to buy it right now.. and the PVC method has me all enthusiastic. Does this method work for all transducers, or only specific transom mount ones?

this is the fishfinder i am looking at:
http://www.vitmarine.com/hum-P1.html

thanks for all your help!!

<img src="http://www.response-marketing.com/beta/plaa.jpg" border=0>
1980 SR/SK "Wet Pretzel"

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John Mason
Admiral

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USA
687 Posts

Response Posted - 05/01/2003 : 15:28:32

Go to this webpage and scroll down to the transducers.

http://www.humminbird.com/retail/Default.asp?cookie%5Ftest=1

You can buy the inside the hull transducer. Look at the Puck or Angled Puck type.

See if VitMarine.com will sell it with an inside the hull transducer.

John Mason
<img src="http://www.users.qwest.net/~jamason/ali.jpg" border=0>
pronounced "Ali Paroosa"
1982 - FK/SR #3290

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markolito
1st Mate

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Italy
95 Posts

Response Posted - 05/01/2003 : 16:49:53

thanks for the heads up..
from what i see the one i wanted (coincidently the cheapest one) will not work with the puck style.. i need to get the 100sx. The puck style transducer is 50$ so i guess the budget for the whole deal will neeed to be a bit more than anticipated.

<img src="http://www.response-marketing.com/beta/plaa.jpg" border=0>
1980 SR/SK "Wet Pretzel"

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John Mason
Admiral

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USA
687 Posts

Response Posted - 05/01/2003 : 18:17:47

Sorry about that. I didn't check the details. It looked like it fit so many models, I assumed the Piranha was in the list somewhere.

John Mason
<img src="http://www.users.qwest.net/~jamason/ali.jpg" border=0>
pronounced "Ali Paroosa"
1982 - FK/SR #3290

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ksaum
Deckhand

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USA
14 Posts

Response Posted - 05/01/2003 : 21:20:51

Bill,
In my prior boat I followed the manufacturer’s instructions and epoxied the transducer to the inside fiberglass, just as Bill H. described. No problems and it worked fine. I would suggest that it be placed forward of the keel where it will experience less water disturbance and you will see what’s coming. Also, if its not placed on the boat’s centerline it will give misleading readings with each tack.
Ken Saum – C25 “Been There”

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RoofRoof
Navigator

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USA
186 Posts

Response Posted - 05/02/2003 : 15:34:14

I mounted my "shoot thru the hull" puck transducer so easily.

I used some calking to form a 6" circle on the floor beneath the V-berth. Once this calking was dry, I poored in some slow-cure 2 part epoxy. Set the transducer in the puddle and held it down with something heavy. Works perfectly.

The calking was used just as a "sea wall" to keep the 2 part epoxy in one place.

So super easy, and works perfectly.

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RoofRoof
Navigator

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USA
186 Posts

Response Posted - 05/02/2003 : 15:34:30

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eric.werkowitz
Captain

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USA
283 Posts

Response Posted - 05/02/2003 : 15:57:25

I installed the low-end Hummingbird fish finder using epoxy on the floor of the Vee berth. Less than $100 total. The transducer was made for transom mount be was also suitable for through the hull seeing. Hard to beat the cost or the ease of installation.

Eric Werkowitz
C25 #4969

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Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3323 Posts

Response Posted - 05/02/2003 : 17:38:34

I'll wager that I have the stupidest placement of my instrument thruhulls! The DD (dumb dealer) from whom I bought the boat installed them under the base of the porta-potti!!! If I need to check them I have to dissemble the whole teak base! <img src=icon_smile_8ball.gif border=0 align=middle> (And yes - he's a powerboater!!)
Derek

<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3dc30b3127cce942c608d6f1e0000001010" border=0>
TRFK#2262"This Side Up"

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steephen
Navigator

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100 Posts

Response Posted - 05/18/2003 : 18:39:43

Anyone know whether the HawkEye DF1000D (a wedding present) is a decent transducer? Is 'Puck" a general term for all the glued-down models? I'm leaning towards gluing it to the hull in the V-berth, since this seems to be the turbulance-free consensus. Is the hull there cored or solid, does anyone know?

Stephen Z on "Little Wing"

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RoofRoof
Navigator

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USA
186 Posts

Response Posted - 05/18/2003 : 19:07:40

Do a search for this topic. I have responded to this topic twice in the last month. Oh, and I have THE answer.

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seads
1st Mate

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USA
90 Posts

Response Posted - 05/18/2003 : 19:58:25

Actually, we already found our own THE answer...being purists, we are using a thru-hull, and found a perfect spot under the galley area to port. It is almost completely level so no faring block required. Thanks for the input however.

Stewart Eads
"Osprey" 1982 FK/SR #3408

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