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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Do you like Lazy Jacks

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dock
1st Mate

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USA
25 Posts

Initially Posted - 05/06/2003 : 16:45:03

I'm thinking of installing lazy jacks. I know I'll have a problem with the sail cover. Any other big issues or negatives?

Thanks,

"ParaDocks"

Edited by - on

Brooke Willson
Admiral

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983 Posts

Response Posted - 05/06/2003 : 17:17:55

You don't have to have a problem with the sail cover: jacks can be rigged to retract (mine hook over the big halyard cleats on either side of the mast) and not interfere with the sail cover.

I like them: they make life much easier when single handing.

Brooke

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77Gypsy
Captain

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USA
356 Posts

Response Posted - 05/06/2003 : 17:24:01

i have to dissagree, i found them more of a pain when i took a sailing class on a beneteau 41.

Steven de Filippis
78 C25 SR/FK - Gypsy

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Douglas
Master Marine Consultant

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1595 Posts

Response Posted - 05/06/2003 : 17:27:29

Best thing since sliced bread if you going to single hand. Even better if you get into a blow and have to drop sails. It stops them from blowing all over the cabin top. They can be retractable and if so wont bother your sail cover. Make your own for $30 or so. Very easy to do.

Doug&Ruth
Triska (Alberg 29)
Tacoma Wa.

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10timesSaltier
1st Mate

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80 Posts

Response Posted - 05/06/2003 : 19:39:58

Do lazy jacks fold your sail effectively, or are they just there to confine the sail after dropping it? I have a full batten main if that makes a difference.

Brian.
Great Salt Lake (10-times saltier than the ocean)
"SAFARI", '81 C25 TR-FK #2275

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Wind Chime
Deckhand

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USA
12 Posts

Response Posted - 05/06/2003 : 20:09:18

Before I bought my 25 I had a 21' Bay Hen that had lazy jacks. I enjoyed them very much,the sail cover was remade to snap and fit around the lazy jacks so therefore no problem. I like the idea of the retractable jacks though

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Douglas
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1595 Posts

Response Posted - 05/06/2003 : 20:12:23

Brian they dont fold your sail for you. They just allow it to be contained so as to stop it from falling all over the cabin top. You give the sail a few pulls here and there. A few tucks and a little care and you can put the ties on. Slack of the lazy jacks and loop them to the cleats on the mast. Put the cover on at your leisure.

Doug&Ruth
Triska (Alberg 29)
Tacoma Wa.

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George Beck
1st Mate

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USA
48 Posts

Response Posted - 05/06/2003 : 21:05:13

Dock, for single handed sailor they are best thing since sliced bread. I didnt like the installation however so I reversed the turning block and ran the adjusting line back to cockpit on boom so they can be tightened or loosened as needed. Of course I had to buy new longer adjusting line.I dont know why they recommend cleating foreward and not aft. Go figure.Oh yes, I have Harken Jacks.

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George Beck
1st Mate

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48 Posts

Response Posted - 05/06/2003 : 21:08:14

Dock, sorry I left off half my reply. When at dock and sail is being covered I loosen all jack lines and pull toward the Mast and install the main sail cover as if there were nothing in the way. With the extra length in adjusting line from cockpit you can easily do this.

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EricCS
1st Mate

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USA
40 Posts

Response Posted - 05/06/2003 : 22:24:33

A couple of years ago or so this forum had a thread on the best things for a single-handed sailor. Lazy jacks and self-steerer were the most recommended items.

I bought E-Z-Jax <http://www.ezjax.com/> brand lazy jacks and have been happy with them -- and at least once very glad to have them -- since. I got the cockpit-control option; the lines provided are not only longer, but the hooks which hold the lines in their stowed position next to the gooseneck are different (capable of releasing when the lines are pulled) than those of the other options.

E-Z-Jax stow close to the boom and mast; they do not interfere with the sail cover, nor impinge on the sail when not in use. With the cockpit control option a tug of the lines from the cockpit releases the lines from the hooks at the gooseneck, then it's just a matter of pulling the lines to an appropriate tension. Once secured in a slip, at anchor or mooring, the lines are released and I re-stow them as I'm folding and covering the sail.

HTH

Eric Spitzner, AP (eric@snet.net)
Catalina 25 #4445 "Charm"
41°16.18'N 72°54.03'W

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dave holtgrave
Captain

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USA
427 Posts

Response Posted - 05/07/2003 : 14:15:33

everybody says make your own and i am trying.
i need help with the boom dimensions of were to locate the eyestraps and how high i should make the splice (intersection of boom lines).
i am trying to use my own and may end up using the one in tech tips.
i tried with only an intersection of obout 4ft above the boom and the leech of the sail falls out the back.

thanks for any info in advance

dave holtgrave
5722 sk/tr
sailing at carlyle lake in southern illinois

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dannyhain
Deckhand

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USA
24 Posts

Response Posted - 05/07/2003 : 15:49:28

Dave,
The one in the Tech Tips forum works very well. I used the basic design from there and got specs on mounting the hardware from Harken's instruction manual whuch is available for download on their website. I did ignore Harkens mounting position on the mast and went with the tech tips suggestion of mounting just below the shrouds. I think the lines were approx 8ft. I am extremely happy with the results. If I still have details at home I will try and post tomorrow.
Danny
"Slippery When Wet"

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 05/07/2003 : 15:50:30

I've considered Lazy Jacks and may put them on this season, and it will probably be something I put together instead of the store bought kits. Anyway, since I've never used them before, I'm trying to envision how they operate and I have a few questions.

1. Does the headboard/roach/battens of the main ever foul on the upper(or lower) jack lines when raising the main from the cockpit? Since the lazy jack lines are just 5-6 inches apart, I'm envisioning the top of the sail snagging on the upper lazy jack lines as it is flapping side-to-side during the hoist. Does this happen?

2. Are most lazy jack systems controlled from the cockpit? If so, how many lines are needed? Again, I'm envisioning hoisting the main, then releasing the 2 main lazy jack lines(port and starboard), but after releasing them, don't you need another set of lines to pull the slackened lazy jack lines clear of the main?

3. When using lazy jacks, is a dousing line recommended to haul the main down? When the winds are up, my main requires a little help from me to get it down, so would I need a dousing line in addition to the lazy jacks?

I'm a singlehander and I'm always looking to find an easier, less complicated way of doing things, and if I get some favorable answers here, I might bump this project to my "things to-do in the next two weeks" list.

<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>Don Lucier<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b2d904b3127cce9f7cd9ffdf1d0000003010" border=0>
North Star SR/FK

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dannyhain
Deckhand

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USA
24 Posts

Response Posted - 05/07/2003 : 16:16:46

Don,
You brought up some good questions! I have just recently installed my Lazy Jacks and have only used a couple of times.I control mine from the deck and haven't needed a dousing line but can see the potential benifit. I may have to update this set up.Thanks Danny

Edited by - on

Brooke Willson
Admiral

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USA
983 Posts

Response Posted - 05/07/2003 : 16:36:40

Don, here are my answers to your good questions after my one year using lazy jacks:

1. Sometimes. I've found that I need to watch the headboard as it goes up so it doesn't snag. On the other hand, because I have a topping lift rigged to the cockpit, and not the lazy jacks, I leave the lift tensioned and the lazy jacks a little loose. That gives more than 5 - 6 inches of space. The jacks need to be loose if the lift is tensioned so they won't restrict the boom when the lift is eased.

2. I haven't found a need to run the jack line (and one controls the setup, not two) to the cockpit, because I deploy the lines when I remove the sail cover, and pull them back after I've used sail ties and am about to put the cover back on. I use one of the smaller cleats on my mast to secure the jack line.

3. I've thought about a dousing line for the main -- I have a downhaul on my jib, and that I have found absolutely essential -- but haven't installed one yet. Occasionally when the main won't drop all the way, I use the jiffy reefing line to pull it down. If your main needs a downhaul, it seems to me that lazy jacks are irrelevant to that issue: you've got that problem anyway. Maybe a little lubricant on the slides (Harken makes a dry spray lubricant).

Hope this is helpful.

Brooke

Edited by - brooke willson on 05/07/2003 16:38:19

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George Beck
1st Mate

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48 Posts

Response Posted - 05/07/2003 : 17:18:30

As Harken recommends the adjusting line should be tight when lowering sails so they will flake better than if loose and flopy. Tension should be loose when sailing so not to destroy shape of main and keeps battens from catching on line as easily when raising sail. I have small downhaul line connected to head sail and down to bottom of mast turning to cockpit if some slugs hang up with wind interference. Works very well, try it.

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 05/07/2003 : 18:26:17

Danny, Brooke, and George,

Thanks for the input,...I'm on the verge of adding it to my list.

To suspend the upper jack lines, I'm thinking of just adding a small tang to each lower aft shroud clevis pin on the spreader brackets(so I don't have to drill the mast). This should be high enough, right?

Next, I'm planning to have the boom lines at 3' and 6' from the mast. Is this adequate to keep the sail on the boom?

Brooke, you said you only have one control line...How does that control both sides of the jacklines? Is only one line threaded through both sides of the jacklines?

<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>Don Lucier<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b2d904b3127cce9f7cd9ffdf1d0000003010" border=0>
North Star SR/FK

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Brooke Willson
Admiral

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USA
983 Posts

Response Posted - 05/08/2003 : 01:36:04

Don: the spreader is higher than where mine is attached, per the Harken instructions. I guess it would be fine. . .

I had to play with the boom placement. Harken had locations as percentages of the length of the boom, but those spots weren't good for my sail (stock tall rig, with regular battens). I would suggest you play around with the locations and find what works for you.

Yes, there's one line for the lower section. It runs through an eyestrap on the mast to a cheekblock portside, up over the portside block, down aft through an eyestrap on the underside of the boom, up through the starboard block, and ends at another eyestrap forward starboard opposite the cheekblock.

Brooke

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jwilliams
Captain

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USA
357 Posts

Response Posted - 05/08/2003 : 13:14:46

Hey Dock,

With all respect to my sailing brothers who like'em...I don't.

I saw the EZ-Jacks system at a Boat Show, took photos and made a similiar set-up for Hey Jude. I even found a way to have the feature they legitimately boast about, the deployment hardware that holds the lines forward on the boom that releases with a tug on the line. I made the version with four lines aside. It had the stainless steel rings, etc. My system deployed from the cockpit.

I found that it was just one more thing to snag and hang up in the normal working of hoisting or dousing. The lines were hanging free from the blocks on the mast and often wrapped themselves around something. You could not take all the slack out of them otherwise the jacklines deployed. One option would have been to install line guides at two or three places up and down the mast, but I chose not to drill another bunch of holes.

I also found that the sail had a habit of dropping through the jacklines or bunching up. This required you to go forward and straighten out the sail so it lay properly on the boom.

I did not install a dousing downhaul because it would be another line to wrap around something else.

My set-up was identical to the system sold by EZ-Jacks, I made sure after I installed it and checked it against a nearby boat. Now, with deference to the EZ-Jacks folks. Their design is brilliant and the product I saw at the show was well made. Arguably, they would maintain that there was something I missed in my copy, or I was incorrectly using their design. They could be right.

I removed the system and find singlehanding is just as easy without it. Yes, I have to go forward while my bungee cord holds the tiller, and finish dousing the main and flip a couple of gaskets around the sail. In 20kt + winds it is routine.

I'm glad it works for some of you. But my Buddy Paul keeps telling me whenever I get hot to add some other goodie, "keep it simple."

Jim Williams
Hey Jude C25fk 2958
Half Moon Bay, CA

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 05/08/2003 : 14:40:41

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>I found that it was just one more thing to snag and hang up in the normal working of hoisting or dousing.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Being a fellow singlehanded sailor myself, these are my concerns also, and I'm trying to figure out what advantage lazy jacks are going to give to me.

Even though the hardware(winches, turning blocks, clutches,...etc) are on my boat to lead all lines aft, I still raise/lower the main at the mast, because I find it the simplest and easiest way to do it. This process is made even easier with an autopilot and, as a matter of fact, when dousing the main, I also flake and cover the sail whilst I'm motoring down the marina channel. By the time I get back to the slip, all lines and sails are already stowed, so I just loop the docklines on the cleats, raise the motor, and leave for home.

<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>Don Lucier<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b2d904b3127cce9f7cd9ffdf1d0000003010" border=0>
North Star SR/FK

Edited by - on

dock
1st Mate

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USA
25 Posts

Response Posted - 05/08/2003 : 20:38:42

Thanks everyone for your imput. I'm going to install them this weekend. I'll let you know what I think in a few weeks.

"ParaDocks"

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Brooke Willson
Admiral

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USA
983 Posts

Response Posted - 05/09/2003 : 09:44:02

Don et. al.: You're right that lazy jacks are one more thing to mess with and to go wrong. That must be some corollary of Murphy's Law. Where I find them most useful is when I have to douse the main in a significant blow, and the seas are such that I don't relish going forward on a heaving deck to stow the sail. The jacks allow me time to get the boat in harbor before I wrap and stow the sail. Without the jacks, after dropping the sail and turning out of the wind to head into harbor, the main would blow free from the boom, sometimes creating significant windage and making steering . . . interesting. Now, however imperfectly, the main is kept in the vicinity of the boom until I'm in a place where I can safely stow the sail.

Brooke

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RichardG
Admiral

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USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 05/09/2003 : 11:40:11

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> whenever I get hot to add some other goodie, "keep it simple."
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

I'm not sure where I heard/read it, but "Simple is beautiful" seems to be a pretty good rule of thumb to follow for me. In fact, at its core, it's one of the fundamental reasons I have a sailboat instead of a motorboat.

RichardG 81 C25 SR/FK "Sanity"

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 05/09/2003 : 20:57:58

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>I'm not sure where I heard/read it, but "Simple is beautiful" seems to be a pretty good rule of thumb to follow for me. In fact, at its core, it's one of the fundamental reasons I have a sailboat instead of a motorboat.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Here, Here!

<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>Don Lucier<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b2d904b3127cce9f7cd9ffdf1d0000003010" border=0>
North Star SR/FK

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