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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Tiller repair

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Bruce Baker
Captain

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USA
402 Posts

Initially Posted - 05/09/2003 : 14:19:01

I've already broken my brand-new tiller from Catalina Direct. The end of the tiller cracked near the screws that hold the tiller-extension socket in place. The old tiller used bolts all the way through, but it also looked like it was broken there. Any ideas? I don't want to take the whole thing apart. I'm hoping to squirt some kind of super-glue substance between the laminations and whack a "C" clamp on in. Ideas?

Bruce Baker
"Yee Ha"
Falls Church, VA

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Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 05/09/2003 : 15:03:33

Bruce,<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>... end of the tiller cracked near the screws that hold the tiller-extension socket in place. ... don't want to take the whole thing apart. I'm hoping to squirt some kind of super-glue substance between the laminations and whack a "C" clamp on in. Ideas?<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

You might try high quality epoxy, such as WEST. I'd wedge the cracks open, try to coax as much epoxy as far in as possible with toothpicks, compressed air, gravity, etc. (Expect to make a mess, use masking tape, wax paper, etc. to contain spillage.) Then remove the wedges, and clamp as required. A C-clamp might be overkill. I'd first consider spring clamps, rubberbands, bungy cord, etc. Just fool around with it before you apply the glue to see what it takes to close it up. Once the epoxy cures firm (a day for WEST), you can sand away the drips, runs, finger smears, etc.

Laminated wood plys can be reinforced by drilling holes perpendicular to the glue lines, and gluing in hardwood dowels. Or you can use long wood screws or thru-bolts. It depends mostly on your asthetics and available skills.

-- Leon Sisson

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Dave B
Admiral

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Mali
863 Posts

Response Posted - 05/09/2003 : 22:44:49

Bruce: It's hard to understand just what happened without seeing it, but I'll offer a conceivable theory, assuming you're fastening the extension on the top or bottom of the tiller... When driving screws through laminated layers of wood, if you drill the screw holes too small and/or too shallow for the screws, the act of screwing them in can push the laminations apart. Through-bolting (with skinny bolts) is probably safer, since the bolts will pull the laminations together. After drilling, run some varnish, polyurethane, or even thin epoxy through the holes to seal them, and let it set up before bolting. This is the same issue as drilling holes through a wood-cored deck--moisture will try to follow the screws or bolts down into the wood.

Dave Bristle, 1985 C-25 #5032 "Passage" SR/FK/Dinette/Honda in SW CT

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ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 05/11/2003 : 11:01:16

Yes, as Dave B suggests, if the pilot hole wasn't exactly proper and deep enough, you probably pushed the laminations apart as the end of the screw bottomed out in the pilot hole.

Heh heh... don't ask how I know this ;>)

In materials like this, I've had better luck using stainless screws designed for metal rather than wood, they have more "bite" on the end and don't tend to push as much... or better yet, go with through-bolting.

West system epoxy will likely do the trick. You can thin the mixed epoxy with acetone a bit, in that state, it really creeps and penetrates. (You'll want Acetone for cleanup anyway.)

Then clamp things up, let it set up, sand down, refinish and you should be good to go for another hundred years.

Currently maintaining two holes in the water...'77 Venture 23 and new to the family,
'78 Catalina 25

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MattL
Admiral

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USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 05/12/2003 : 00:23:21

Clam,
another thing that works very well for clean up, and is a little friendlier to you is rubbing alcohol. Just don't drink it when things go wrong.

Matt/Brigitte Loeffler
E.C. Rider
Cat 25 86'
FK/SR _/)

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Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 05/12/2003 : 08:08:23

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Clam,
another thing that works very well for clean up, and is a little friendlier to you is rubbing alcohol. Just don't drink it when things go wrong.

Matt/Brigitte Loeffler
E.C. Rider
Cat 25 86'
FK/SR _/)
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

That would depend on whether the rubbing alcohol was isopropized wouldn't it?

D. Wolff - "The Flying Wasp" #401 sr/sk
Chief Measurer C-25/250 National Assn.
<img src="http://www.flags.com/dreamimages/Flags/measurer.jpg" border=0>

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bsmudd
1st Mate

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61 Posts

Response Posted - 05/31/2003 : 20:45:39

Can you drink the rubbing alcohol of things go right?

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Brooke Willson
Admiral

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USA
983 Posts

Response Posted - 05/31/2003 : 21:46:48

You can drink it, but it will be the last thing you drink.

Brooke

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Gary B.
Admiral

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USA
969 Posts

Response Posted - 06/01/2003 : 08:14:17

If it's "denatured" alcohol, you can burn it in your stove. Much cheaper from the hardware store than the "stove fuel" from West Marine, and it works fine....(well..not in a propane stove!)

Gary B.
Encore! #685 SK/SR

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MikeM
1st Mate

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72 Posts

Response Posted - 06/04/2003 : 08:47:58

Bruce, same thing happened to me. The end my tiller started to separate and crack. I backed out the screws for my tiller extension (connector) and bored out all older glue residue. Then I added epoxy to the holes and thru any cracks. When dry I sanded the tiller the best I could but I still had this ugly epoxy stain. I went ahead and painted the very end of the tiller with a high gloss paint (blue), back 1/2" from the end and added a red stripe (auto sticker) to make it a clean transition from the paint to the wood. Once dry I sealed it all with several layers of Polyurethane. The tiller came out great, stronger than before and a tad of color to match my boat.

Mike M
Marblehead, MA
C25 #1212

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MattL
Admiral

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USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 06/04/2003 : 09:21:30

rubbing alcohol = wood alcohol = isopropol alcohol

different names for the same thing H3COH

Matt/Brigitte Loeffler
E.C. Rider
Cat 25 86'
FK/SR _/)

Edited by - on

osmepneo
Past Commodore

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USA
1420 Posts

Response Posted - 06/04/2003 : 10:33:29

Interesting discussion about the cause! I have a tiller extension to put on, once I can finally get osmepneo in the water. And, if the outboard starts.

In order to repair, Leon's suggestion is the way I would go. WEST Epoxy is really great stuff, and it is fairly easy to work with. When ever I drill a hole that I'm sure will never be moved, I set the bolt or screw in WEST epoxy.

Don Peet
c25, 1665, osmepneo, sr/wk
The Great Sacandaga Lake, NY

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Dave B
Admiral

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Mali
863 Posts

Response Posted - 06/04/2003 : 21:58:10

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
When ever I drill a hole that I'm sure will never be moved, I set the bolt or screw in WEST epoxy.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>
Don: An extension to that theme... If you coat the bolt or screw with melted candle wax before setting it in the epoxy, it'll back right out, leaving a nicely threaded epoxy hole.

Dave Bristle, 1985 C-25 #5032 "Passage" SR/FK/Dinette/Honda in SW CT

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 06/04/2003 : 22:11:51

I noticed that three of you guys use a tiller extension and my question is, "What does the tiller extension give you?"

Your C25's probably don't have hiking straps or trapezes so I'm assuming the tiller extension is used, more or less, like a tiller tamer to lock the tiller in place. Is this correct?

<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>Don Lucier<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b2d904b3127cce9f7cd9ffdf1d0000003010" border=0>
North Star SR/FK

Edited by - dlucier on 06/04/2003 23:47:43

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ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 06/05/2003 : 09:39:29

It also lets you move forward in the the cockpit and steer whilst foolin' with the depth sounder etc.

Currently maintaining two holes in the water...'77 Venture 23 and new to the family,
'78 Catalina 25

Edited by - on

Bruce Baker
Captain

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USA
402 Posts

Response Posted - 06/05/2003 : 10:48:34

The tiller extension lets you steer while sitting on the rail. It's important in racing, maybe less so in cruising unless the wind is up.

Bruce Baker
Falls Church, VA
"Yee Ha" 3573
'83SR/SK

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