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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

General Sailing Forum

Topping Lift

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Tray
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Namibia
224 Posts

Initially Posted - 05/13/2003 : 20:15:32

Given my recent difficulties with sail trim, I got to thinking about the topping lift and how it affects leach tension. I always release my topping lift so that the weight of the boom is held entirely by the mainsail. Is this a good thing to do assuming normal conditions, i.e. 10 knot winds? Or should some of the boom support be taken up by the topping lift thereby easing the leach tension?

Tray
C-250WB #554
"Weeny Bean"
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3da37b3127cce963eb621ece90000001010" border=0>

Edited by - on

John G-
Admiral

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793 Posts

Response Posted - 05/13/2003 : 21:27:25

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
"...should some of the boom support be taken up by the topping lift thereby easing the leach tension?"
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>
IMO - No. The topping lift is for raising the boom for reefing and when the main is down. The tension between the boom, the leech, the out haul and the halyard are what you have to work with to shape the sail. Ease the topping lift enough so it exerts no influence on the sail but does not flap too bad against the sail and work the other controls including mainsheet, traveler and backstay tension as well as the halyard and out haul. You should be able to shape the main with these controls.
 

[url="http://www.peregrinefund.org/"]<img src="http://www.peregrinefund.org/images/intro_mid_image.GIF" border=0>[/url]
[url="http://www.catalina25-250.org/photo/peregrine2.jpg"]"Peregrine"[/url] C25-#4762 FK

Edited by - on

Dave B
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Mali
863 Posts

Response Posted - 05/13/2003 : 22:06:36

Tray:

This is hard... The shape you want to affect to power up the main is the curve from fore to aft, as in a partial cylinder with a vertical axis. On a beat or reach in light air, that shape turns the air aft toward the leach, helping to power the boat. The mainsl's telltales should be pointing aft. On a run, that shape "captures" the wind" like a baseball glove.

The topping lift, if tensioned, imparts a curve on a horizontal axis that directs the air upward, doing little to power the boat forward. Watch the telltales on the main on a boat with a tensioned topping lift--they'll point on an upward angle.

Your outhaul is the more important shaping tool, and a loose-footed main gives you even better shaping with the outhaul. The vang helps to reduce the shape I described as being imparted by the topping lift, and is particularly useful off the wind, when the mainsheet isn't helping much--even in light air. You can run with a tight vang and a loose outhaul to shape the sail downwind or in light air.

Hope this made some sense... <img src=icon_smile_shy.gif border=0 align=middle>

Dave Bristle, 1985 C-25 #5032 "Passage" SR/FK/Dinette/Honda in SW CT

Edited by - Dave B on 05/13/2003 22:07:41

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triley
Captain

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USA
251 Posts

Response Posted - 05/13/2003 : 22:59:17

I have been wondering about a rigid topping lift, but I keep thinking that it could interfere with sail shape. Am I wrong on this? I know it would keep the old pop top from working, but I never use the poptop anyway.

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SailormanCGA72
1st Mate

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77 Posts

Response Posted - 05/14/2003 : 00:52:36

a "rigid topping lift"???? Are you confusing a topping lift with a boom vang?

A topping lift is a line that runs from the end of the boom up to the top of the mast and down the mast with the purpose of holding up the boom.

A boom vang is a multi-purchase line running from the bottom of the mast (at the tabernacle) to a location 2-3' from the mast on the boom. It's purpose is to pull the boom down and allow varying degrees of sail shaping control.

Hope that helps a little.

Edited by - on

bear
Admiral

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USA
909 Posts

Response Posted - 05/14/2003 : 07:30:10

Triley,
I posed a question recently about a rigid boom vang for my
C 250 WB and the results from the forum were positive for the question I asked about it eliminating a topping lift. It is pricey, about 198 boat units and I do have it on my short list, try useing the search engine to see posts from at least one member who has one.
"Bear" waiting for the lake level to drop

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 05/14/2003 : 10:17:10

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Triley,
I posed a question recently about a rigid boom vang for my
C 250 WB and the results from the forum were positive for the question I asked about it eliminating a topping lift. It is pricey, about 198 boat units and I do have it on my short list, try useing the search engine to see posts from at least one member who has one.
"Bear" waiting for the lake level to drop

<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>
Bear - Are you sure you don't mean 1.98 boat units? With 198 boat units you could get a very nice Catalina 30.

D. Wolff - "The Flying Wasp" #401 sr/sk
Chief Measurer C-25/250 National Assn.
<img src="http://www.flags.com/dreamimages/Flags/measurer.jpg" border=0>

Edited by - Duane Wolff on 05/14/2003 10:18:43

Edited by - on

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3321 Posts

Response Posted - 05/14/2003 : 23:37:49

Tray - there's a very simple way to know whether your topping lift is tensioned too much (that old K.I.S.S. principle again...<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>)
When we raise the main, the topping lift is completely loosened. We go to close-hauled and sight from behind the main's leech, comparing it's curve to the leech curve on the genoa - if they are not the same, the topping lift is adjusted to achieve this in conjunction with the vang and outhaul. Usually the topping lift is let off completely, but in light air the weight of the boom makes the main too flat, so we tension the topping lift a bit to re-establish those parallel curves of both leeches.
Derek

<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3dc30b3127cce942c608d6f1e0000001010" border=0>
TRFK#2262"This Side Up"

Edited by - on

triley
Captain

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USA
251 Posts

Response Posted - 05/15/2003 : 21:47:59

Thanks, Sailorman. I meant boom vang to replace the topping lift
Thanks "Bear". I will look it up. I have a 1987. Haven't really looked into whether it would work. Will look up the replies you raised.

Tom

Edited by - on

Oscar
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2030 Posts

Response Posted - 05/18/2003 : 22:30:34

Tray,

The boys are right, topping lift is not allowed in the sail trim game, other than as an emergency main halyard, and the goal is to keep the tell tales on the leech of the main flying, indicating a nice laminar airflow over the foil, and thus the desired resulting generation of lift.
What nobody mentioned here, and what I found to be important, is that the wind coming to the main is not messed up.....by the jib. Start at the start, and make sure that the jib is flying evenly from top to bottom. While staying the course, (preferably somewhat to windward) slowly loosen the jib sheet untill the luff starts loosing pressure, as indicated by the inside telltales stalling out (ie not streaming) make sure all telltales stall at the same time. If the top of your jib stalls first, then there's too much twist in the sail, and you need to move the fairlead forward on the track, pulling the top of the sail in........and vice versa.
Once the wind is flowing through the slot evenly and unspoiled from top to bottom, you can start working with the main, but you can't get a main flying right in bad air.....

Oscar
<img src="http://www.woodenshoemusic.com/Images/familypics/LKforumshot.jpg" border=0>
Lady Kay 250 WB #618
In the driveway in Behtlehem, PA ready to go anytime.

Edited by - Oscar on 05/18/2003 22:37:04

Edited by - on

ssteakley
Captain

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USA
467 Posts

Response Posted - 05/19/2003 : 00:40:24

Seems to be some mixed views on the use of the topping lift as a tool for sail trim..I have to agree with Derek. I use the topping lift rather than the main halyard. If I loosen the main halyard the boom just drops if the topping lift is loose so I do not get the desired shape...so just tension the topping lift and viola...shape appears.
On the other hand, if the topping lift is tensioned and then you loose the main halyard then I assume you could get the same results...I just use the topping lift, I still have lots to learn..
Steve

<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3dc32b3127cce94d57c8cff3b0000001010" border=0> Moon Chaser #385WK <img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/forum/forum1.gif" border=0>

Edited by - ssteakley on 05/19/2003 00:41:48

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