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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Lines to the Cockpit

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Tray
Navigator

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Namibia
224 Posts

Initially Posted - 12/13/2001 : 18:02:06

I've been on 3 sails with the new boat<img src=icon_smile_approve.gif border=0 align=middle> and I've already decided that I need to find a way to run the Main Halyard to the cockpit. I do not enjoy climbing up on deck to raise the mainsail when the water is choppy. Has anyone else done this? Any advice?

Thanks,
Tray

Tray
C-250WB #554
"Weeny Bean"

Edited by - on

John G-
Admiral

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793 Posts

Response Posted - 12/13/2001 : 18:17:53

Tray – I have a C25 NOT a C250 but check out my [url="http://c25c250.best.vwh.net/restricted/tt008.htm"] Tech Tip on clutches[/url]. It may give you some ideas on how to run your lines back to the cockpit on your boat. IMO it’s the best upgrade on either of the Catalina models.
(Blue underlined words are a “hot” link.)
Good luck.

[url="http://www.peregrinefund.org/"]<img src="http://www.peregrinefund.org/images/intro_mid_image.GIF" border=0>[/url]
 John G- "PEREGRINE" C25-#4762 FK

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DougA
1st Mate

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USA
73 Posts

Response Posted - 12/13/2001 : 18:34:14

I did it to mine 250 last summer and it is great. I'm trying to put some pictures together to sho how it was done.

Doug A., C250wb, San Franciscp Bay area

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Tray
Navigator

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Namibia
224 Posts

Response Posted - 12/13/2001 : 19:30:34

Thanks, John. Looks simple, but...I can't stress this enough...I'm an absolute newbie when it comes to boat upgrades/repairs. From your picture it looks like the deck organizer needs to be screwed down into the deck. Are there any precautions that should be taken, i.e. rubber washers, silicone, for waterproofing the attachment? I'm really squeamish about drilling into my new boat.<img src=icon_smile_shy.gif border=0 align=middle>

Tray
C-250WB #554
"Weeny Bean"

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John G-
Admiral

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793 Posts

Response Posted - 12/13/2001 : 20:08:18

Tray – The hardware is NOT screwed down but bolted through the deck. Some use backing plates, mine just have oversized washers backing up the nuts. Obviously the seal is critical. Instead of describing a method to you I suggest you seek out someone near you that has done this kind of work and ask to see both the deck and the underside and get ideas as to how to layout the lines and drill and seal and the holes. Look at the underside of your winches and see how they are bolted down. I will look for some other resources for you but can't get to it till the weekend.

[url="http://www.peregrinefund.org/"]<img src="http://www.peregrinefund.org/images/intro_mid_image.GIF" border=0>[/url]
 John G- "PEREGRINE" C25-#4762 FK

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Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 12/13/2001 : 20:39:48

You open the window for a lot of considerations. Among them are ease of setup if you trailer. Are you also considering the addition of lazy jacks to manage the dropped sail? Are you also planning on running your topping lift and reefing lines aft as well?

Every sailor has a differant comfort level...there may be some alternatives that will help...short of running the lines aft.

The first is that the c250 w/b is set up to allow a limited amount of cockpit control of the halyards with the bottom mast mounted cam cleats. Try this and see if it works for you.

Second, I have found it very easily to go forward on the cabin top with my bottom glued to the cabin top....when arriving at mast...one leg around the boom vang secures me. The halyard can be managed very well from this posterior position.

Third...running the food of the main loose footed will help all this as it allows using the boom for a hand hold....as well of course as doing a better job in shaping the sail.

Also, you will be presented with lots of new sailing lingo and thought....one phrase you will hear is that "lines were run aft to set the boat up for single handling". Do not let this infer that thats its necessary to do that to single hand. Many sailors do not require lines aft to single hand... it simply depends upon personal comfort.

Also, reefing is a very important sail management requirment on the c250. And, its a chore to get single line jiffy reefing to work fully effective let alone two sets of reef points both of which are needed on the c250. So, if you gota go up there to manage the reefing anyhow...then the halyard being at the mast is a plus rather than a drawback.

Repeat...loose footing the main is a great plus to this as well as adding self storing sail ties. Then its easy to follow the sailors rule....one hand for yourself, one for the ship.

I find it helps me in fact to have all the lines available from the one position near the mast. The topping lift is on the right side of boom...the halyard within reach...the reef lines all right there as well as the self storing sail ties. And, when the reef lines need assistance, or the ties need tending, or the sail needs pulled down...I am right there to do it and done it in some rather tough conditions...with harness of course.

Arlyn C-250 W/B #224

Edited by - on

Steve Raffel
Captain

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262 Posts

Response Posted - 12/13/2001 : 21:28:34

Arlyn raises some good points. I have found the best solution to the reefing problem is the Dutchman. It allows the sail to be lowered for reefing in a very controlled manner. The sail slides down lines that run from a topping lift through the sail to fittings at the foot of the sail. If you are trailing the boat, this may be too much work to setup each time. The company is located in Norwalk CT if you are interested. One last point. If you think you need to reef do it before you go out. It is much easier to shake the reef out than to put it in.

Steve Raffel
C 250 WK #408

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DougA
1st Mate

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USA
73 Posts

Response Posted - 12/14/2001 : 20:29:44

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
I did it to my 250 last summer and it is great. I'm trying to put some pictures together to show how it was done.

Doug A., C250wb, San Franciscp Bay area
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Doug A., C250wb, San Franciscp Bay area

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Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3321 Posts

Response Posted - 12/19/2001 : 16:17:45

Arlyn - I realize that I sail a C25 and you & Tray sail 250's, but IMHO you miss Tray's point. He is a novice sailor and cautious about going forward - with his lines led aft (even if it is only the main halyard and reefing line) he can deal immediately with any excess wind emergency from the safety of the cockpit. (On "This Side Up" I could reef the main in the time you take to get on the cabin top). If the main halyard needs to be dumped it is on hand and a quick grab of the leech and a bungee will put the main under control until he gets back to the marina.
Admittedly, I single-hand quite a bit and all my lines come back to the cockpit which helps me tremendously - but I also race a great deal and my crew appreciate the handiness of all the sail controls.
There is no question in my mind that having ALL lines led aft is the safest method and is certainly the best modification I ever made.
One day on Canyon Lake the wind went from zero to 35k in about 5 seconds - had I needed to go forward to dump the main I would probably not be here to write this...
Derek C25 TMFK #2262

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mmodine
1st Mate

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26 Posts

Response Posted - 12/22/2001 : 18:36:06

Another post concerning halyards and I will have to go shovel the snow off 2001 250K #579 Luna Maya.

The mast step on our boat has wings on either side with three holes which are used for securing blocks. Our boat came with two blocks, one for the main halyard and one for the jib halyard which is not used with our furler. The main halyard is led throug one of these blocks to a clutch directly in front of the startboard cabin top winch.

Our boat also came with a single line reefing system. The original Catalina design had too many rub points, requiring some additional pulling of the reefing line at the aft end of the boom to get the sail reefed down tight. We solved this by re-routing the reefing line so the working end came out on the starboard side of the sail, down through an added block on the mast step and back to a second existing clutch next to the halyard clutch. The wife side of the crew can now reef and unreef and reef again (our marina is at 8,300', making for finicky winds) all by herself from the cockpit.

The second reef is a little tougher, even with most of the sail already tied down with the first feef. We have permanent lines with eyes spliced in one end attached in the second reef grommets. Drop the sail to the spot marked on the halyard, tie down the two lines using the eyes and a couple of half-hitches, tighten it back up and away you go. The fastest our boat ever went was with two reefs and a tiny hankie out of the furler.

Edited by - on

Glogner
Deckhand

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Austria
16 Posts

Response Posted - 12/23/2001 : 14:47:11

Check out the Tech Tip Section. I have all liners in the cockpit exept the genoua halyard which I still operate from the base of the mast. http://c25c250.best.vwh.net/restricted/allis11.html

Merry Christmas
Dietmar Glogner
ALLIS C250 WB #185

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andy p
1st Mate

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55 Posts

Response Posted - 12/23/2001 : 23:01:21

A line could be led aft if the need arose but it shouldn't be done wholesale. Give it a while and see what the patterns really turn out to be for your brand of sailing. Don't dwell on the "what if's" of a Perfect Storm. Instead think about the other 98% of the time when the conditions are mild (and there's no real hurry to do anything in particular about the boat) and ask yourself "What job am I doing at the mast right now that would be more easily done from the cockpit?" Next time out lead that line aft and see if you're right. As far as being a novice, it's really the opposite. A novice needs to gain confidence in the handling of the ship. They need to explore the deck and know the workings of the boat: front to back and top to bottom. This can't be done sitting in the cockpit, or worse yet, with a fear of being on deck because there are times when it cannot be avoided.

Andy P.
#5708

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Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3321 Posts

Response Posted - 12/24/2001 : 12:45:22

Andy - that reminds me of my old Obs/Gyn Professor who said "Obstetrics is 98% sheer boredom - and 2% sheer terror!!
Just as then, I now like to be prepared for that 2%...
Hope everyone has a safe and Very Happy Holiday Season.
Derek

Edited by - on

andy p
1st Mate

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55 Posts

Response Posted - 12/24/2001 : 14:00:48

Who was That famous English chap who always carried his umbrella, even on the sunny days? You can never be too careful but there's a trend in some of these threads (whatever the topic: sails, anchors, rigging, motors, etc.) where the advice hinges on dramatic situations that are in reality very rare events for the casual weekender to sail into. It's a mistake for the novice to avoid learning situations on the very days where they are perfectly safe and when mistakes are no big deal. Just my opinion. Very happy holidays to all!

Andy P.
#5708

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ssteakley
Captain

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USA
467 Posts

Response Posted - 12/31/2001 : 19:13:34

Tray et.al.,
Well after reading all this and having several non-sailor guest aboard on a 15-20 knot day. I had to go hide in the lee of a hill, go up to the mast and reef the main. That is when I realized I had a unused clutch and with the addition of a block I could easily run the jiffy reef line to the cockpit. I have to agree fully with Derek and confirm that everything you can do from the cockpit the better. I have a 250WK #385 and besides the racing and safety issues, there is also the single handing issues that demand that being able to manage the boat completely from the cockpit is a great advantage. I have since reefed the main from the cockpit 3 times and I owe this new convience to this web site and to its contributors. Thanks y'all and have a great New Year!
S.Steakley
Moonchaser #385

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Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3321 Posts

Response Posted - 01/01/2002 : 12:33:42

Whoopee! Another convert!!
May y'all have a Very Happy and Successful 2002 - fair winds and moderate seas!
Derek

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Tray
Navigator

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Namibia
224 Posts

Response Posted - 03/27/2002 : 20:10:18

I know this topic is rather old, but I ran into a snag while putting together the pieces I need to do the job.

My mast plate is not modified with the wings that you can attach blocks to. I've already acquired a deck organizer and rope clutches, but I need to come up with something at the base of the mast. I don't understand the difference in all the blocks I see in the West Marine catalog. There are so many to choose from. Can somebody tell me what kind of block should be attached at the mast base?

Thanks.

Tray
C-250WB #554
"Weeny Bean"

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 03/27/2002 : 20:53:33

Will the C25 mast step/halyplate plate sold by Catalina Direct work on a 250? This link shows the plate that they sell for the 25. http://www.catalinadirect.com/halyard%20plate%20c-25.html As for the turning blocks at the base of the mast, you will want ones that are properly sized for the line diameter of your halyards and the working load they will be under. The folks at Catalina Direct are pretty good about providing advice as to what works best on Catalinas so you may want to give them a call. The brand of the block is more of a personal preference/quality/bearings/how much do you want to spend issue. Some people swear by Harken, others Schaefer. Some think the Ronstan's look cheaply made. I recently replaced my genoa cars with Garhauer cars and I like the cars as well as the price($35.00 ea).

Don Lucier, Northstar
C25 SR/FK

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