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Object lesson about old standing rigging

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jwilliams
Captain

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USA
357 Posts

Initially Posted - 07/10/2003 : 23:57:14

Hi all,

My buddy, Paul, called last night to ask if I would look at one of our neighbors roller furler. Something went awry overnight and the marina security people had to come to secure his roller jib since it had come unwound.

It is a Columbia 26, vintage '69. I went over this afternoon and looked at the masthead with my binocs. The forestay had pulled completely out of the banjo fitting at the masthead!

I talked to the guy and inquired about how old the standing rigging was. As far as he knew it was original. Bad news. Since his mast is stepped on the keel and through the deck, he has two choices: Boatyard to remove the mast and fix the rig, or bosun chair up to do it.

Glad our masts can come down easy...and that I replaced the standing rig on Hey Jude two years ago!

Jim Williams
Hey Jude C25fk 2958
Half Moon Bay, CA

Edited by - on

Dave B
Admiral

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Mali
863 Posts

Response Posted - 07/11/2003 : 00:18:45

Good point! I'm planning on replacing mine (18 years) after the end of this season.

Dave Bristle, 1985 C-25 #5032 "Passage" SR/FK/Dinette/Honda in SW CT

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Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 07/11/2003 : 08:34:24

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Good point! I'm planning on replacing mine (18 years) after the end of this season.

Dave Bristle, 1985 C-25 #5032 "Passage" SR/FK/Dinette/Honda in SW CT
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

We went about 22 years on ours, and the rigger who used our old set of rigging to measure for the new set was surprised the mast hadn't already come down.

D. Wolff - "The Flying Wasp" #401 sr/sk
Chief Measurer C-25/250 National Assn.
<img src="http://www.flags.com/dreamimages/Flags/measurer.jpg" border=0>

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drttu
1st Mate

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USA
41 Posts

Response Posted - 07/11/2003 : 13:41:52

This last Wednesday night, we had a storm come through Kansas and the next day I got a call from the Marina. My mast had come down. It looks like the masthead had a crack and then broke under a heavy wind. The backstay came out and then it came tumbling down. Luckily no one was hurt and there was no damage to the surrounding boats. I was out of town on business and looking at it this morning, there doesn't appear to be any deck damage but I'm taking it to another marina who will be doing the repairs. Luckily, my insurance company will cover it. It could have been a lot worse. My daughter and I were just sailing this past week and it could have picked then to come down. I only bought this boat last fall and this is my first season with this boat. I have a 1983 tall rig wing keel (factory retro fit wing). I'm going to replace the standing rigging while the mast is down to give me some peace of mind.

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Dave B
Admiral

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Mali
863 Posts

Response Posted - 07/11/2003 : 15:24:41

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
We went about 22 years on ours, and the rigger who used our old set of rigging to measure for the new set was surprised the mast hadn't already come down.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>
One reason I'll replace it is that when I had a rigger shorten the backstay this Spring so I could rake the mast back a little (the turnbuckle was out of turns), he said the top of the forestay was untwisted. He suspected that the PO had a halyard wrap on the roller furler, twisting the stay. He said it's still safe... I say it's just about time.

Dave Bristle, 1985 C-25 #5032 "Passage" SR/FK/Dinette/Honda in SW CT

Edited by - dave b on 07/11/2003 15:25:21

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Shawn
1st Mate

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USA
62 Posts

Response Posted - 07/11/2003 : 23:20:05

Stainless Steel is an unusual type of alloy. It generally won't show any visible sign of wear or decompositin before it gives it up. It can also show rust colored stains after less than one season of sailing. These stains are not neccesarilry a sign of corrosion.
If you don't know the history of your standing rig, have a professional check it out. If you have any "meathooks", have a professional check it out. If either of these is the case, save the cost of having a professional check it out, and put it towards a new standing rig.
This is my opinion, so take it for what it's worth. I tend to be overly cautious
(if there is such a thing) when it comes to the safety of crew aboard my boat or the boat itself.
The standing rig is the most important thing on a sailboat. Therefore (once again IMHO) any concerns regarding it should immeadiately jump to the top of the TO-DO list.
I replaced my rig myself for a relativly low price. I ordered the S.S. wire and the appropriate Sta-lock fittings from West Marine. The Sta-lock fittings are pretty simple to use, after the first one it took me about 10 min per fitting. I started by labeling each peice of wire as to its location and how much adjustment was left on each turnbuckle. Then I stepped the mast and went to work using the old wire as a guide for length of each new piece. I used my notes of turnbuckle adjustment to decide the appropriate length to shorten the new wire. Just take your time,and measure twice or thrice and cut once. If you have any doubts about your mechanical abilities, take it to a professional. I enjoyed the project and got a lot of satisfaction out of doing it myself. Not to mention saving a few bucks. Once again, IF YOU HAVE ANY DOUBTS TAKE IT TO A PROFESSIONAL. This is a very important part of your peace of mind regarding your vessel, so treat it accordingly.
Hope I wasn't overly dramatic.

Shawn
1980 C25 tr/fk #1960

Edited by - on

Dave B
Admiral

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Mali
863 Posts

Response Posted - 07/12/2003 : 00:14:13

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
If you have any "meathooks", have a professional check it out.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>
Meathooks in a wire halyard are annoying. Meathooks in standing rigging are totally unacceptable. If one strand parts, you're looking at a disaster that is trying to happen!

Dave Bristle, 1985 C-25 #5032 "Passage" SR/FK/Dinette/Honda in SW CT

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Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1916 Posts

Response Posted - 07/13/2003 : 11:02:41

Hey Shawn,

Could you approxamate about how much you saved over the Catalina Direct prices for the new standing rigging you fabricated yourself?
I am considering replacing mine on my 89 model soon.

Frank Gloss
89WK/TR

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Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 07/13/2003 : 16:57:08

Frank,

Re: "Could you approximate about how much you saved over the Catalina Direct prices for the new standing rigging you fabricated yourself?"

I'm not Shawn, but I did make up my own standing rigging. Here's my thoughts and suggestions on comparing prices.

I found the best price on both the Sta-Lok eye terminals and the 316 alloy 1x19 rigging wire through Brion Toss Rigging. The best price on the Hayn bronze open body turnbuckles was from Defender or West Marine.

When comparing total cost of ownership, realize that the Catalina Direct rigging is roller swaged 302/304 with integral turnbuckle stud, as opposed to the parts I listed. What this means, is that the Catalina Direct rigging will have a shorter lifespan than the home made rigging. The eye terminated rigging can be flipped end-for-end every few years to even out the effects of oxidation. (Standing rigging ages faster at the lower end.) Also when wire replacement is needed with the Sta-Lok rigging, all you have to replace is the wire and terminal inner cones (cheap), not the whole original gang all over again. With separate turnbuckles, if the upper threaded stud gets damaged (bent while raising/lowering mast, dragged while trailering, snagged or bumped at the dock, etc.<img src=icon_smile_shock.gif border=0 align=middle>), you can get just that part of the turnbuckle separately, without having to replace the entire stay.

And speaking of turnbuckles, I despise the closed body tubular 302/304 stainless steel ones that are usually supplied if you ask for the cheapest rigging available.<img src=icon_smile_angry.gif border=0 align=middle>

This is starting to look long-winded, so I'll stop here.<img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle> Let me know if you have more specific questions for me.

-- Leon Sisson

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Dave B
Admiral

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Mali
863 Posts

Response Posted - 07/13/2003 : 19:03:37

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
And speaking of turnbuckles, I despise the closed body tubular 302/304 stainless steel ones that are usually supplied if you ask for the cheapest rigging available.<img src=icon_smile_angry.gif border=0 align=middle>
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>
Boy, do I agree! I had stays made up for a previous boat, and the rigger used the closed stainless turnbuckles... I almost lost the rig one day--a locknut had loosened, and the whole thing unscrewed. You can't see anything, and you can't cotter-pin them. They're a menace to the sport!

Dave Bristle, 1985 C-25 #5032 "Passage" SR/FK/Dinette/Honda in SW CT

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Shawn
1st Mate

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USA
62 Posts

Response Posted - 07/13/2003 : 21:16:47

Gloss,
I never priced Catalina Direct when replacing my rig. I had just purchased the boat and didn't know about them or this great site.
I got an estimate of somewhere around $2100.00 from a well known local rigging shop. If I remember correctly, the wire (316 s.s.) and all of the Sta-lock fittings were in the neighborhood of $1200.00. This was ordered through West Marine. I also performed the replacement without ever dropping my mast. I did it one piece at a time using halyrds and additional lines secured around the top of the mast as temporary shrouds. As I said earlier I was new to the boat, if I ever do it again I will step the the mast as it is easy to do on our boats. This project was done 5 years ago, so the prices are my best guesses from memory. If you want more accurate or detailed info, let me know. I can probably dig the invoices out of my files.
Shawn
1980 C25 tr/fk #1960

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