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Biminis Again

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DaleV
Deckhand

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8 Posts

Response Posted - 07/22/2003 : 21:48:52

I installed a Bimini from CD last weekend and I won't go without it again. It mounts on top of the coaming as far forward as you can and still be flat. I clears the mainsheet in the back and covers the companionway very nice. Going forward is still on the learning curve so I'll have to wait to pass judgment on that. I have some pictures thar i'll try to post.
Dale

SK/SR #4382

Edited by - on

Dave B
Admiral

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Mali
863 Posts

Response Posted - 07/23/2003 : 10:30:30

Thanks, Dale... I'm sure several of us are anxious to see what you've got.

Dave Bristle, 1985 C-25 #5032 "Passage" SR/FK/Dinette/Honda in SW CT

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LeighMarie
Navigator

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USA
188 Posts

Response Posted - 07/25/2003 : 08:44:12

When we purchased our boat last year I also purchased the CD bimini to install. However, when we got it in the water and into the sun we realized we really like the sun! I put the bimini together in my living room - and it looked very nice there! But we decided to not install it and to enjoy the sun instead. If anyone's interested, it's still new complete with instructions and hardware....

Dave & Sharon on "Leigh-Marie"
Hull #5128

Edited by - on

Dave B
Admiral

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Mali
863 Posts

Response Posted - 07/25/2003 : 11:52:40

Dave and Sharon:

Aluminum or stainless frame?

Sharkskin or Sunbrella cover?

Color?

Price?

Dave Bristle, 1985 C-25 #5032 "Passage" SR/FK/Dinette/Honda in SW CT

Edited by - on

LeighMarie
Navigator

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USA
188 Posts

Response Posted - 07/25/2003 : 22:02:55

Hi Dave,

I have the aluminum frame with blue Sunbrella fabric. I think I paid around $350 for it from CD. I'd let it go for $225 or so. I just got it last year.

Dave & Sharon on "Leigh-Marie"
Hull #5128

Edited by - on

skipn809
Navigator

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111 Posts

Response Posted - 07/25/2003 : 23:56:35

Hello Dave and Sharon--

I have hull # 5121. It was originally bought in Texas. I am wondering where your boat started, and we it ended up?

Skip 1985 C-25 T/R #5121 "Corporal Punishment" N.E. Mo.

Edited by - on

matsche
Captain

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USA
280 Posts

Response Posted - 07/26/2003 : 08:00:55

Tall Riggers (Mark, Brooke, Skip):

I too have the TR/low-boom/too-much-sun challenge. I haven't done the measurements yet, but was considering a comprimise that I think's been discussed on this board before. That is, reefing the main, easing the downhaul and raising the boom as far as possible for easy cruising in the shade. Then, in the late afternoon, stowing the bimini, shaking out the reef and lowering the boom for better sailing. Have you guys considered this option and/or done any measurements to see if it'd work? I think that with the reef in, we basically have something close to a standard rig.

John Matsche 1985 TR/FK #5171

Edited by - on

LeighMarie
Navigator

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USA
188 Posts

Response Posted - 07/26/2003 : 09:02:10

Skip,
I'm not sure of the history of our boat, but I do know it's an amazing boat! It is a 1985, as is yours, andI purchased it in January of 2002. That owner said he bought it from what he thought was the second owner, although he doesn't know how long that second owner had it. This third owner, the guy I bought it from, had owned it for about 5 years. At least 2 or 3 of those years he had not had it in the water. When he had it in it was in the St. Joseph area of Lake Michigan. I now have it in a slip in Muskegon Lake in Michigan at the Muskegon Yacht Club. I guess I have no idea where the boat was prior to the Lake Michigan era of the boat. I should email the previous owner and see if he knows.

I have done a lot to the boat in the past 2 years, and the only thing still frustrating me is the electrical in the mast. I put a new steaming light on this past Spring, and now both the Steaming light and the Anchor light go on at the same time but are both very dim. I'll have to look more into that this Fall when I take the boat out of the water.

It is a traditional rig, swing keel. I put on a furler genoa last year and will be replacing the original mainsail next year.

Dave & Sharon on "Leigh-Marie"
Hull #5128

Edited by - on

Dave B
Admiral

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Mali
863 Posts

Response Posted - 07/26/2003 : 13:45:56

John: You can use Search to find several discussions on your idea. I would caution that you consider the position of the boom relative to the mast slot gate (I guess it's called the kerf).

Dave Bristle, 1985 C-25 #5032 "Passage" SR/FK/Dinette/Honda in SW CT

Edited by - on

skipn809
Navigator

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111 Posts

Response Posted - 07/26/2003 : 16:42:23

Dave and Sharon--

I would suggest you have a look at the wire plug connection at the deck. It is possible both lights are feeding off one pin in the connector causing a short. That might explain the dimness if the wires are touching at the connecting screws. Also, you might feel the wire between the deck and mast to see if it feels at all warm. It shouldn't, and if it does it is probably because you have a short maybe even with the ground wire, which could eventually cause a wire to melt. Hopefully, the fuse would blow first. I'd also make sure the wires are not touching in the lower portion of the connector, and finally I'dcheck the fuse block to make sure there is not a crossed feed wire there. (I can see somebody bypassing a fuse to get both lights to run off the same fuse. If the wires to the pins in the deck connector are seperated, then you have a connection somewhere in the mast. I don't mean to be a know it all-- I've just encountered the same problem thru experience ( read- stupid mistakes).

John--

I have decided to move the traveller to the cabin top to make use of a bimini. I think I will be able to use a 36 to 42 inch high 6 footer, mounted near the rails (maybe even a 48 inch mounted on the tracks), and have enough head room to sit comfortably. Of course you can't stand up in the cockpit, but it will be the same dimensions and set up as I had on a Spindrift 24, and I got along OK even making way to the foredeck from the cockpit. I am still measuring and figuring. I need to sail a couple more times to get things sorted out, and if I come to any useable solution, I'll post for you to review and make suggestions. Maybe between the two of us, we will be able to figure something out.

Skip 1985 C-25 T/R #5121 "Corporal Punishment" N.E. Mo.

Edited by - on

Sea Trac
Master Marine Consultant

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Vanuatu
1357 Posts

Response Posted - 07/29/2003 : 11:02:10

Here are the pictures that I promised. In retrospect, my bimini appears to be EXACTLY like Don's, although it is mounted slightly further forward. I wanted to post pictures of it stowed aft, up and forward, but my card ran out of memory. I also forgot to take measurements. Anyway, stowed aft it rests (outside the lifelines) across the stern pulpit about where the forward stanchions are located. Stowed up it hangs exactly where the aft end is located in these pictures. Stowed forward it rests just fore of the closed main hatch (again, I call this the ankle breaker, and it makes opening the main hatch a pain). Hope these are helpful.
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3d909b3127cce8be2124da7af0000001610" border=0>
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3d909b3127cce8be21d5566180000001610" border=0>
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3d909b3127cce8be210f526260000001610" border=0>
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3d909b3127cce8be213dc66960000001610" border=0>
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3d909b3127cce8be2161ba7fb0000001610" border=0>

J.B. Manley, Antares '86 FK/SR #4849
Grand Lake O' The Cherokees, NE Oklahoma

Edited by - on

Dave B
Admiral

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Mali
863 Posts

Response Posted - 07/29/2003 : 12:22:52

Thanks, JB! BTW, nice job on your teak!

One question: Regarding the "ankle breaker" and other comments, if you were to do it over, would you position the bimini differently, such ase on the coaming so you could step through to the side-deck? That would provide a few inches less shade on each side, but I'm thinking it might make movement forward easier. The downside might be that the bimini wouldn't lie on the cabintop--or maybe that's an upside. <img src=icon_smile_question.gif border=0 align=middle> I have several reasons for not being interested in laying it on the stern rail.

Again, thanks for the great pics and description!

Dave Bristle, 1985 C-25 #5032 "Passage" SR/FK/Dinette/Honda in SW CT

Edited by - on

Sea Trac
Master Marine Consultant

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Vanuatu
1357 Posts

Response Posted - 07/29/2003 : 13:38:51

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
BTW, nice job on your teak!
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Thank you very much, Dave, but it's nothing that four solid days of sanding and eight coats of Bristol Finish wouldn't produce for anyone.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
One question: Regarding the "ankle breaker" and other comments, if you were to do it over, would you position the bimini differently, such as on the coaming so you could step through to the side-deck? <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

No, I wouldn't position it differently for my needs. Before I reconfigured the boom (i.e., sail stops, downhaul, and adjustable topping lift that allow the main to be fully raised and the boom to be kept at its highest possible position without compromising sail trim), I compensated for the "ankle breaker" by stepping onto the coamings and up to the cabin top. However, I wasn't happy about replacing busted up ankles with placing my whole body in a much less secure position. So after coming very close to getting splashed by the four foot wake of a 50' Carver while my eight year old son was on board, I started looking for other solutions.

I now sail only with the bimini up or stowed aft. When up, I have enough room to move forward from the cockpit by placing a foot on the side deck in front of the bimini and slipping between the frame, cabin top and forward bimini stay. When stored aft, I have enough room to duck under the bimini to adjust the outboard. I also like to sail standing on the cockpit seat, and the stowed bimini gives me a secure place to lean and a convenient handhold.

I think that my configuration fits my needs and, not to be offensive, my body shape. I certainly don't think it's the right configuration for everyone. The space between the frame and the cabin top is relatively small. However, placing the frame further back will require its placement on either the toe rails or the coamings. Each with their own set of problems: toe rails = genoa car interference, coamings = substantially shortened frame = stowage problems.

Finally (sorry to be so long winded here), a further drawback about my configuration is that it cannot be stowed aft at dock, because the frame interferes with the shorepower connection. Therefore, I must keep it up (deterioration factor) or stowed up (backstay pressure, bungee deterioration, and swim ladder interference). None of these drawbacks concern me as much as those that I've eliminated, though.

Hope this helps your decision-making process.

J.B. Manley, Antares '86 FK/SR #4849
Grand Lake O' The Cherokees, NE Oklahoma

Edited by - on

Dave B
Admiral

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Mali
863 Posts

Response Posted - 07/29/2003 : 16:51:17

Thanks for the details, JB... They're very helpful to me and apparently several other shade-seekers. They say every boat is a compromise--I guess every comfort on a boat requires a compromise!

Thanks again,

Dave Bristle, 1985 C-25 #5032 "Passage" SR/FK/Dinette/Honda in SW CT

Edited by - on

kansasboatman
Deckhand

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17 Posts

Response Posted - 07/29/2003 : 22:52:07

All this discusion on biminis is veryyyy interesting....wish I had seen it several weeks ago when orders came down from Fleet Hdqs. that we would procure a bimini. Ordered it from CD and after beiong on backorder finally arrived. Unpacked it on the boad and was very surprised to see it was nothing more than a "sandard bimini" used on runabout power boats, etc.....how disappointing. I had assumed, wrongly, that CD had a line on a unit that was friendly/custom made for the standard C 25. AFter getting it assembled it quickly became apprarent, that in its factory configeration it could not be mounted to open up under my boom on my standard rig. The boom is now about 27" off the cabin roof whcih I assume is normal for regular main sheet operation.
has anyone resorted to cutting 5 or 6 inches + off the legs as suggest in the packing instructions to make it fit.....or raising the boom and screwing up the main sheet?

I am just about ready to disassemble it, return it to CD and just take the heat from Fleet Hdq. and the ole Kansas August Sun.

O

Edited by - on

Sea Trac
Master Marine Consultant

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Vanuatu
1357 Posts

Response Posted - 07/29/2003 : 23:31:41

I was just looking for my copy of the order form and commissioning ticket from when my boat was originally purchased in '85. Unfortunately, I think they're up on Antares. If memory serves, however, I think my bimini came from Catalina Yachts. I'll look for the info when I go up tomorrow night or Thursday night, and I'll also remember to get some measurements this time. That might be a help to any SR'ers that are shopping.

J.B. Manley, Antares '86 FK/SR #4849
Grand Lake O' The Cherokees, NE Oklahoma

Edited by - on

Dave B
Admiral

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Mali
863 Posts

Response Posted - 07/30/2003 : 08:42:13

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
The boom is now about 27" off the cabin roof whcih I assume is normal for regular main sheet operation.
has anyone resorted to cutting 5 or 6 inches + off the legs
O
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>
Hello, O...
Were you thinking of mounting it to the cabin top? The CD unit is supposed to be 36" tall, and the stated width is 73-78" which allows it to be mounted to the side-deck outside of the coamings (as in the pictures above). In that position, I'd say 36" is too short--there's at least 42" below the boom on my standard rig--maybe more from the side-decks. Being 6' long, the side-deck position puts it partially over the companionway. What if you put yours on top of the coamings, forward of the winches? Would that clear your boom and give you enough height?

Also, keep in mind that the length of the legs is greater than the height of the raised bimini--as shown in JB's pics, the legs are angled approximately 45 degrees. If the raised bimini is close to the boom, you'd have to push the boom up to fold it forward or back, but I wouldn't expect that to be a problem.

I adjusted my boom stop and topping lift during a sunset sail last night--will take some new measurements today.

Dave Bristle, 1985 C-25 #5032 "Passage" SR/FK/Dinette/Honda in SW CT

Edited by - dave b on 07/30/2003 09:49:19

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 07/30/2003 : 10:22:33

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Also, keep in mind that the length of the legs is greater than the height of the raised bimini--as shown in JB's pics, the legs are angled approximately 45 degrees. If the raised bimini is close to the boom, you'd have to push the boom up to fold it forward or back, but I wouldn't expect that to be a problem. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Yes, the boom needs to be raised to fold the bimini and, as you stated, is not a problem. My topping lift is led to the cockpit so to fold the bimini, I simply release the mainsheet and haul on the topping lift. Additionally, I have marked my topping lift with tape to make sure I don't lower my boom to a point where it might hit the bimini.

Issues to keep in mind when installing a bimini is the location of the bimini frame in relation to the genoa cars, sheets, electrical outlet, and winch. On my boat the frame is such that I can't get a full 360 degree turn on the winch handle. This means that I have to ratchet my sheets in, which I do anyway due to a balky shoulder.

<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>Don Lucier<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b2d904b3127cce9f7cd9ffdf1d0000003010" border=0>
North Star SR/FK

Edited by - on

Dave B
Admiral

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Mali
863 Posts

Response Posted - 07/30/2003 : 17:48:31

O: Here're my measurements for an '85 standard rig with the boom resting just low enough so the sail lifts it at both the tack and the clew and tensions the luff when raised:

Height from top of coaming, forward of winch, to bottom of boom: just over 40"

Height from side deck to bottom of boom: about 46"

Width between outside edges of the coaming forward of the winch platform: 69"

Width for mounting on side-deck outside of coaming, forward of winch: 74-80"

The Catalina Direct bimini allows for a 73-78" mounting width, which suggests it should be mounted on the side-decks, and is not quite wide enough for the genoa track mounts. However, at 36" high, I think it's unnecessarily short for a standard rig (by almost 10").

Looks like I'll be shopping BoatUS (who will do a stainless frame) and the outfit Skip suggested on the previous page. (West says nothing about stainless in their catalog.) Relief is in sight!

Dave Bristle, 1985 C-25 #5032 "Passage" SR/FK/Dinette/Honda in SW CT

Edited by - dave b on 07/30/2003 17:50:56

Edited by - on

kansasboatman
Deckhand

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17 Posts

Response Posted - 07/30/2003 : 22:50:31

Thanks for everyone's comments, statistical input (measurements)
What you are saying about working with the boom and lift were confirmed today by CD tech support when I called them. Will measure distance from top of coamings forward of winch when I get back opujt to the boat. Right now the assemble folded bimini is upside down in the hold and I know this won't work next time my better half is with me!!!

Edited by - on

Sea Trac
Master Marine Consultant

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Vanuatu
1357 Posts

Response Posted - 08/01/2003 : 11:25:48

Here are some measurements from my '85 SR and bimini set-up (pictured above):

Bimini mount is 12" forward of coaming on side deck
Bimini forward main frame is 64" long
Bimini headroom is 71" above cockpit sole (with tensioners up)
Bimini coverage is 78" fore-and-aft and 80" port-to-starboard
6" of companionway is not covered when the hatch is fully open
Main sheet at boom is 12" aft of bimini
Gap between cabin below halyard winches and bimini main frame is 8"
Aft secondary frame is 12" forward of coaming winches when the bimini is up (I have to ratchet when the bimini is stored aft on the stern pulpit, but the two speed winches makes this no problem)
Lower sailstop (boom rest) top edge is 31" from cabin top

Hopefully that will help some of you plan your bimini project.

J.B. Manley, Antares '85 FK/SR #4849
Grand Lake O' The Cherokees, NE Oklahoma

Edited by - on

Dave B
Admiral

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Mali
863 Posts

Response Posted - 08/01/2003 : 12:29:19

Great help, JB! I hope I can get that much headroom...

Thanks!

Dave Bristle, 1985 C-25 #5032 "Passage" SR/FK/Dinette/Honda in SW CT

Edited by - on

frank679
1st Mate

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USA
42 Posts

Response Posted - 08/01/2003 : 21:39:45

I have a TR and to ensure that my wife would sail with me I had to install a bimini. To overcome the problem of the low boom I bought a used Ranger 26 Mainsail which is approx., 18 inches shorter than the 25 Mainsail, but has a longer foot. I lost very little in the way of square footage. Being very cheap I bought a bimini at a power boat store and mounted it on the genoa track. I have a stop in the main sail track to keep the main from coming down too low and when sailing the bimini is well below the boom. In dock I have three options, fold it over the cabin, fold it over the stern rail or attach it with bungee cords to the boom. I try not to go forward when sailing and have lines coming to the cockpit. If I do have to go forward I just unhook the forward lines and fold the tent back.

Frank. 1983 TR/FK Hull# 3816

Edited by - on

Dave B
Admiral

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Mali
863 Posts

Response Posted - 08/01/2003 : 21:42:54

Well, I just ordered a bimini from GMI (Skip's recommendation above) in Canada--stainless frame, light tan Sunbrella, with adjustable legs to hold it upright when folded--for a little under $500 with shipping, which about $210 less than CD. Another important difference is that it is up to 46" high, or 10" higher than CD's. I'll probably cut it down to 42-44". A 3" overhang front and rear allows for the possibility of adding a zippered window on the front--a poor-man's dodger.

I decided to get the additional legs so I could rig the forward straps to be easily released for going forward without the whole top collapsing rearward. It's a $35 gamble...

FYI, with aluminum frame and hardware, and no additional legs, the price is $199 plus $25 shipping (with free storage boot).

I'm pleased, and the Admiral is stoked! We'll see how it turns out.

Dave Bristle, 1985 C-25 #5032 "Passage" SR/FK/Dinette/Honda in SW CT

Edited by - dave b on 08/01/2003 22:04:05

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 08/01/2003 : 21:52:09

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Bimini headroom is 71" above cockpit sole<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

J.B.,

I don't know the exact measurement from my cockpit sole to my bimini, which is 1" below the boom, but I'm sure it's not 6ft(maybe 5ft?).

How did you get so much room under your boom?

<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>Don Lucier<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b2d904b3127cce9f7cd9ffdf1d0000003010" border=0>
North Star SR/FK

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