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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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All this talk about outboards...

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deastburn
Captain

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USA
334 Posts

Initially Posted - 08/23/2003 : 11:50:29

has set me to thinking...

The C25 was designed before four-stroke outboards came along. I inherited "Wood Duck" with the original, lightweight Garhauer bracket and a 6hp two stroke that weighed in at about 45lbs. I replaced this with the much heavier OMC bracket and a 9.9 Honda which weighs in at 115 to 120 lbs with electric start and alternator. It is mounted with major backing and extra fiberglas to reinforce the transom.

But...

Has anyone ever heard of a C25 dumping its outboard, bracket, and part of the transom overboard in protest at all this extra weight and its major leverage? I know the C25 is one tough little boat, but when it is pounding through the waves with the equivalent of me or my wife hanging off the stern, I sometimes become alarmed...

Am I just a worry-wart?

Dave on "Wood Duck" (#2616)

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tinob
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1883 Posts

Response Posted - 08/23/2003 : 12:03:14

Welcome to the club Dave, it's the ole boyscout adage,"be prepared" that's got us schnukkered(?) I've worried a lot as a swinger and a little less since retrofitting the wing but never thought the transom would fall off with my Johnson 9.9. Thanks for sharing. That should take my mind off to-hulls and rigging failure for awhile<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

Val on Calista # 3936

Val Bisagni]<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3df11b3127cce94709c5ff2e90000000010" border=0>

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Gary B.
Admiral

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USA
969 Posts

Response Posted - 08/23/2003 : 12:39:12

Rest easy. I have had a Yamaha 9.9 four stroke on my C25 swinger since 1985. Put on a heavier bracket (not sure of brand, but it was from Catalina at the time). I simply used LARGE fender washers for backing. I trailer with the OB on (tied up to the stern pulpit so weight is NOT on the bracket). Never had a problem, no cracks, and it gets SERIOUS use in often pretty big water. Don't by into all the nay-saying that happens here on the forum sometimes.

One caveat: My old C25 is a '78; I cannot speak for structural differences that may have occurred with later models.

Gary B.
Encore! #685 SK/SR

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 08/23/2003 : 14:49:52

I think you're safe... But not knowing any better, I put my new bracket on a fairly large (particularly vertically) piece of 1/2" Starboard so the extra weight, not to mention thrust, is pushing in on a fairly large area that extends well below the bracket. A smaller piece of Starboard inside under the nuts/washers for the upper bolts spreads some of the same leverage.

Dave Bristle - 1985 C-25 #5032 SR-FK-Dinette-Honda "Passage" in SW CT

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ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 08/23/2003 : 16:47:32

Similar to Dave's approach, I mounted 1" X 4" pieces of Teak underneath each leg of the Garhauer outboard mount.

Locking nuts and large fender washers bedded in 101 complete the install.

If all that structure lets go, It's very likely that I've got lots bigger problems to worry about.

Heh heh... if you've ever owned a Mac... you'll know that the Catalina is built like a dreadnought by comparison. ;>)

Currently maintaining two holes in the water...'77 Venture 23 and new to the family,
'78 Catalina 25

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Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 08/23/2003 : 18:44:20

<center>Motor Mount Attachment To Transom</center>

Where my retractable outboard motor bracket attaches to the transom, I have the following reinforcements. My 1979 C-25 transom came from the factory with about 1/2" plywood core but no inner fiberglass laminate. Where the motor mount is located, the inner hull liner has a natural gap of maybe 3/8" to 3/4" from the transom plywood. There is now a large thin plate of stainless steel between my motor mount and the transom (outside). Inside, I used a large holesaw to cut away the inner hull liner around each of the four motor mount bolt holes. I then used the same holesaw to make up 3/4" thick plywood cookies to fit the holes in the liner. After saturating the cookies with epoxy, I installed them in the liner holes with epoxy and milled fiberglass mush. It's significant that the cookies be thick enough to more than fill the gap between the liner and the transom so that, with the generous addition of the epoxy mush, the cookies tie the liner to the transom at the motor mount bolt locations. After the mush cured, I redrilled the mount holes oversize, and refilled them with liquid epoxy thickened with more milled fiberglass. Duct tape was used to form an outer mold wall and an inner funnel to contain the epoxy while it cured. Finally, I redrilled the motor mount holes in the hull and reattached the mount assembly, bedding the bolts with polysulfide sealant.

So far, so good, and I use a 10HP extra longshaft high-thrust engine. I've put over a thousand miles on the modification without incident. That includes a couple hundred miles in the open ocean. At one point, I was motoring into steep waves high enough to alternately wash over the bow, and lift the forward half of the boat out of the water. Although the boat interior was making lots of noises it doesn't usually make, and the motor mount assembly was squirming at all its pivot joints, the transom didn't appear to be flexing at all.

-- Leon Sisson

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ronrryan
Admiral

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USA
561 Posts

Response Posted - 08/23/2003 : 20:56:23

Leon, why am I not surprised? Whenever I want the full-bore solution to a problem, I look for the name "Sisson" on the post. God Bless, buddy, you set the standard for "doing it right" ron Orion SW FL

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ronrryan
Admiral

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USA
561 Posts

Response Posted - 08/23/2003 : 20:56:33

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ronrryan
Admiral

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USA
561 Posts

Response Posted - 08/23/2003 : 20:56:51

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deastburn
Captain

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USA
334 Posts

Response Posted - 08/23/2003 : 22:57:32

Leon:

Your solution sounds totally bulletproof. I do have to tighten the nuts on the inside of my transom once or twice during the season. Possibly vibration, but the bracket does loosen up a bit during the season. I filled the gap with liquid epoxy and then applied a large piece of 3/4" marine plywood soaked in epoxy to the inside of the transom for reinforcement. Then I used large fender washers to help spread the load. I bedded the bracket and bolts with 4200. Still, I have to check the brasket each time out, and check the nuts once or twice a season (the upper part of the bracket tend to pull away from the transom, while the lower part seems to "dive" into the transom.

I am not really worried, but sometimes in a roiling sea with the retracted motor banging hard against the waves on port tack, I do hesitate just a tad...

Davd on "Wood Duck" (#2616)

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Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 08/24/2003 : 10:28:47

ron and Davd,

Re: "buddy, you set the standard for 'doing it right'" and "Your solution sounds totally bulletproof."

Thank you both, you're too kind.<img src=icon_smile_blush.gif border=0 align=middle> I prefer to make each repair only once if possible because I'm just too lazy to do it over a second time.<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle> I'd rather be sailing.<img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle>

-- Leon Sisson

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Earl Landers
Navigator

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USA
157 Posts

Response Posted - 08/25/2003 : 10:41:54

Just for a different perspective,
I was at my local Catalina dealer last week when they took a McGregor in for some repairs. With this post in mind, I lifted on the empty motor bracket and was able to deflect the transom about 1/2 an inch <img src=icon_smile_shock.gif border=0 align=middle>. Our Cat's are very strong in comparison <img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle> Using my XL shaft as a lever, I can't deflect the transom on my boat at all. And, how many Mac's do you know of that sank because their trasom broke off?

Happy Sailing

Earl Landers
'83 C25 SR/SK
"Gentle Spirit"
http://home.bak.rr.com/edlgs

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 08/25/2003 : 11:34:03

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
...And, how many Mac's do you know of that sank because their transom broke off?
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>
I guess sometimes it's good to be flexible!

Dave Bristle - 1985 C-25 #5032 SR-FK-Dinette-Honda "Passage" in SW CT

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MattL
Admiral

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USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 08/25/2003 : 17:05:14

The older mac's I don't think have a problem, it is the new ones that are an atrocity. Come to think of it, I hardley ever see the new mac's out of the slip anyway.

Matt/Brigitte Loeffler
E.C. Rider
Cat 25 86'
FK/SR _/)

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 08/25/2003 : 21:17:23

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
...Come to think of it, I hardley ever see the new mac's out of the slip anyway.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>
There's a new 26X with a Honda 50 in a slip in our club... I saw it go out once. I suspect they beefed up the transom a little on that puppy, but it's the strangest looking craft I've ever seen with a mast! Looks like it'd probably go backwards attempting a beat. But then if he cranks up that 50, I guess he'll get wherever he wants to go.

Dave Bristle - 1985 C-25 #5032 SR-FK-Dinette-Honda "Passage" in SW CT

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OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 08/25/2003 : 21:23:34

I did have some gelcoat cracking so I had the transom reinforced with fiberglass. Transom is now straight as a board and zero flexing.

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jsummerfield
1st Mate

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USA
96 Posts

Response Posted - 08/25/2003 : 21:27:28

On 16 August a McGregor with a 70 hp outboard was planing across Clear Lake headed toward Galveston Bay. I do not need a 70 hp, just a reliable outboard.

John

John
C25 3973 FK/SR
"Texas Tango"

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