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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 250 Specific Forum

boat buying advice

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DogBoy
Deckhand

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6 Posts

Initially Posted - 07/19/2003 : 23:30:02

I've been looking for an easy to trailer boat that can handle lake michigan, sleeps at least 3 in comfort, and most important (to my wife) has a door on the head. I think I've found my boat in a 95 250wb, and I'm looking to buy a used one, but I've never purchased a used boat. I've ordered a book about surveying to give me the basics (Surveying Fiberglass Sailboats: A Step-by-Step Guide for Buyers and Owners by Henry C. Mustin), but is there anything specific that I should be looking for on a 95 250wb? I'm not worried about something that may require a little elbow-grease, but are there any major systems on the 95 model that are prone to failure that should make me think twice about writing the check?

I'm also curious how much additional maintenance is required for the CB. I've only sailed a compac 23, so never dealt with a CB before.

Looking forward to being a 250 owner!

DB

Edited by - on

Oscar
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2030 Posts

Response Posted - 07/20/2003 : 08:51:20

Welcome....

Judging from what goes on on this forum, and it's quite a bit, most 250 WB owners are happy with their purchase. From what you describe it would suit your needs.

Although there seem to have been no major problems, the 250WB , like any other boat, has specific handling characteristics, equipment requirements, and maintenance quirks.

It would be too much to rehash everything here. What I recommend you do is read, read, read in the 250 section, and the tech section of this forum. I specifically suggest that you learn about the following recurring subjects:

*Trailering vehicle requirements. (Figure 5500 lbs)
*Trailer requirements. (Tongue extension/bow roller)
*Mast raising and lowering systems. (Trailer based vs gin pole)
*Engine requirements. (Shaft length etc.)
*Tiller or Wheel.
*The different rudders (3) that are out there.
*Reefing/Weatherhelm/Heel (She's sensitive under some conditions, nothing we can't live with)
*All the acessories that have been found to be "indispensible".

I know others will add to this list. Also, when you run into a post by "Arlyn" follow the link to his website. There's some good stuff there.

Then you can look at a used boat and determine condition vs. price, ie. "value"

As far as the CB is concerned, there are no known major maintenance issues, although with age I'm sure some work will need to be done. As the 250 CB is only a fraction of the 1500 or so pounds of the Catalina 25 CB, I'm sure it won't be a major problem.

Finally, if you look at a boat, take some good pictures, post them here, (instructions in the practice forum) and I know folks will comment on what they see.

Good luck, and keep us posted.

Oscar
<img src="http://www.woodenshoemusic.com/Images/familypics/LKforumshot.jpg" border=0>
Lady Kay 250 WB #618
In the driveway in Behtlehem, PA ready to go anytime.

Edited by - Oscar on 07/20/2003 08:58:56

Edited by - on

Dave B
Admiral

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Mali
863 Posts

Response Posted - 07/20/2003 : 21:44:54

Welcome, Dog...

I'm not a 250 owner, but I looked hard and followed this forum before we bought our C-25. The one small, upgradable issue I recall with the CB is the cable, which tended to kink and break in earlier models. At some point, they added a swivel or some such thing that prevented twisting and kinking--you should be able to find some discussions about that. You might try the Search option (see right side of the header) looking for centerboard, cable, etc.

For your criteria, the C-250 is hard to beat! And for support, Catalina Yachts is a company that is second to none.

Dave Bristle, 1985 C-25 #5032 "Passage" SR/FK/Dinette/Honda in SW CT

Edited by - on

Ray Seitz
Captain

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USA
416 Posts

Response Posted - 07/21/2003 : 07:10:29

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> And for support, Catalina Yachts is a company that is second to none.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote> I would second that and add this forum as an even better means of support with problem solving etc.

Arlyn Cruises in Lake Michigan/Huron and I have sailed in Erie; The C250 is quite able.

I have had, so far, no additional maintenance with the CB. I did read a lot on this forum prior to buying the C250 and always try and be careful not to extend the CB all the way down and never pull it up all the way. I marked the line which lowers and raises the CB so I know when it is almost at the bottom or top.

I would have any used boat surveyed professionally prior to signing on the dotted line.

Some of the older C250 used a different method of raising the mast than the current models which use the trailer winch and strap. The latter method works like a dream. The c250 does trailer very nicely. My only complaint is headroom.

Mark Melchior's Texas Sailor Website is also quite useful. http://www.texassailor.com/lorelei.htm

<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3d831b3127cce891ba4a976e00000001010" border=0>On the water
C250 WB Sea Major #628

Edited by - on

bear
Admiral

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USA
909 Posts

Response Posted - 07/21/2003 : 07:54:27

Welcome Dog,
I have owned a 1995 C250 WB going on three years. It is the
first sail boat I ever owned and ever sailed. A few comments for your consideration. #1 Study Arlyn's website for all the mods and updates he has completed on his C250, very informative on C250 WB. You will have a tiller and not a wheel, nothing wrong with that. The center board and in particular the cable that raises and lowers the board may be the weakest part of the boat. I have had no problems but use it sparingly, The cable is visible with a flashlight and mirror while boat is on the trailer. The swing keel does allow movement of the boat into shallow water, 3-4 ft. We sleep on our boat usually two nights a week, not bad for two people. The head room is a little cramped until you can get the pop top up. Before getting serious I would have any C250 looked at by a knowlegeable person, much like buying a car. Over all though no complaints here, but you are hooked up to the right forum and you should use this forum to enhance your knowlege of the C 250 WB. The info is here for the taking.

"Bear" on Brandy 1995 C 250 WB #089

Edited by - on

bill bosworth
Navigator

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USA
172 Posts

Response Posted - 07/21/2003 : 11:12:06

We've owned our 95 wb for about 3 years, we've owned several fin keel boats for the past 30 years or so, and couldn't be more pleased with our catalina. I like the centerboard, and take advantage of the ability to raise and lower it to trim the boat. We also have a tiller and am very happy with it, tillers are very simple systems that require only a little varnish every couple of years. One advantage of buying a used 250wb is the ease of trailering, we got owrs 750 miles from home. Towing it back was no problem, you tend to forget that it's back there. Our mast raising system uses a pole and block and tackel to raise the mast, it's a great system and goes smoothly with just my wife and myself.
We don't stay on out boat very frequently, but use it as a day sailor. It has a super cockpit and is the best boat that we have ever owned for swimming. The open transom can't be beat.
The 95 vintage 250 is such a simple boat that there isn't much that can go wrong. After reading some discussion on this forum about broken center board cables, I got and carry a spare, but have never had a problem.
Our boat was professionally surveyed prior to purchase, but nothing was found, About the only thing that I have had to do to it in the past three years besides bottom painting and waxing, was to change the through hull fitting for the anchor chain locker, and rebed the life line stansions.

Good luck in your boat hunt, the innernet is a great way to find a boat, this forum is the place to look for advice and encouragement.
Bill C250wb #134 serendipity

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DogBoy
Deckhand

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6 Posts

Response Posted - 07/21/2003 : 13:51:23

Thanks for all the responses. I am glad to see that there aren't any major issues with the boat. I do have a question about surveying a used boat. The boat is a couple of states away from me, so how do I find a reputable surveyor if I go that route? I don't think I necessarily want to rely on the broker to suggest one for me.

Also, how much will a survey of a boat like this cost? I've heard anything from 100 - 200 per foot, but the thought of paying $2500 to $5000 on a 95 boat with an asking price near 20 is daunting. Is it really worth that much piece of mind? The electronics in the boat are very simple, there is a porta-pottie so plumbing is also fairly limited, and the engine is an outboard. It seems like all that is left is rigging, deck and hull. Won't a thorough inspection of this reveal anything serious? I guess I'm not eager to pay that much for a used boat survey when I can buy a brand new boat for just a little more. Any thoughts?

Edited by - on

bear
Admiral

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USA
909 Posts

Response Posted - 07/21/2003 : 17:08:44

Dog Boy,
Only my two cents again, perhaps there is a 250 WB owner in your area or the area of the boats location who would assist in pre-purchase insp for a minmal fee and no liabilty for anything that turns up after purchase. I also think "around twenty grand" might be a bit much for a 95 C-250 WB. You should also be able to take the boat out for a tryout also before putting your name on the dotted line. Also there is a NADA guide for sail boats on the web. "Good Luck" "Bear" on Brandy

Edited by - on

DogBoy
Deckhand

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6 Posts

Response Posted - 07/22/2003 : 09:37:34

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
I also think "around twenty grand" might be a bit much for a 95 C-250 WB. You should also be able to take the boat out for a tryout also before putting your name on the dotted line. Also there is a NADA guide for sail boats on the web. "Good Luck" "Bear" on Brandy
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Wow, reality check. I have contacted a few surveyors in the area (off the internet) and they all say 350 to 500 to survey the boat including travel. That makes a world of difference. Oh, and the around 20 is really more like 18, and that is the asking price, not what I'm willing to pay. I think I was just rounding everything up in a fit of panic. I'm all better now.

With my new perspective, I'm just going to personally inspect the boat for anything obviously wrong (to save on the cost of the survey), and then if I don't find anything, I'll do the survey.

I do have a few more questions: How do you check the condition of the CB cable if the boat is on the trailer? Can it be done? Also, is there an easy way to identify the rudder generation?

Again, thanks for all the help.

Edited by - DogBoy on 07/22/2003 10:06:49

Edited by - on

Ray Seitz
Captain

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USA
416 Posts

Response Posted - 07/22/2003 : 12:12:36

Dog Boy? sounds like your on the right track. <BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>With my new perspective, I'm just going to personally inspect the boat for anything obviously wrong <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

It has been a little while since I have priced marine surveyor's and they were a little cheaper then, but it sounds like you checked around a bit.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>they all say 350 to 500 to survey the boat including travel. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

I can't really answer you newer questions but I am sure other more knowledgeable than I will help out. I think one of the rudders (2nd generation)was a kick up, which I have seen and it is very different from mine.
Good luck
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3d831b3127cce891ba4a976e00000001010" border=0>On the water
C250 WB Sea Major #628

Edited by - RAY SEITZ on 07/22/2003 12:18:06

Edited by - on

bren737
Captain

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291 Posts

Response Posted - 07/22/2003 : 13:24:43

'Around testy grand' actually seems about right to me. Before I decided to buy new, I shopped around the country for several months for a good used 250. Very few were on the market at the time and the closest I could find were actually two in the Dallas area. One was a '97 the other a '98, both WK (I wanted a WB). However, both of these boats were listed in the upper twenties--no trailer with either. Recently, locally, there was an '01 WK which sold (no trailer) for a little over twenty from what I understand.

Bren Peterson
C250WB, #642, "Ruah"
San Antonio, TX

Edited by - bren737 on 07/22/2003 13:25:43

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sailgal
Captain

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USA
400 Posts

Response Posted - 07/22/2003 : 13:32:09

Dog, as for your question regarding the center board cable....find out how old it is and if you discover it is original replace it. I just did mine this year, and Catalina provided me with a new upgraded cable free. The new cable is line instead of stainless and they feel the change prevents the cable from snapping. Install was painless and took only minutes to perform. My only hardship was dry hauling the boat, as I keep my baby in a wet slip year round. Good luck!! The 250 is a great boat.

Suzie, Tropical Sleigh
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3da07b3127cce96a441e875780000001010" border=0>
WB #619 Sarasota FL.

Edited by - on

bear
Admiral

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USA
909 Posts

Response Posted - 07/22/2003 : 15:52:09

Dog- I think your doing Ok and probably will do well performing your
own initial insp. Regarding the center board cable. The original cable
is stainless steel and can be viewed with the dolly wheel cranked all the way up and crawling under the trailer. I viewed my cable with a bright flashlight looking up in the tunnel that the center board rests in. My only concern when viewing the cable was no broken strands, so far so good. Certainly the current owner knows how long the cable has been around. Regarding the rudder, I asked Arlyn Stewart to define the difference between a first generation and second generation rudders, which he did. I believe both of those are kick up rudders. That subject and the third generation rudder can be fully researched and viewed on this thread using the search machine. The answers are there. "Bear" on Brandy

Edited by - on

Oscar
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2030 Posts

Response Posted - 07/22/2003 : 15:58:15

Dog,

I looked at a 95 with trailer.....asking 16-ish, this was in February in the Virginia area. The boat was in poor shape. Water inside, life forms in the cushions and carpet, plywood wet at the bottom. Trailer looked like it would need a thorough once over. Lots of elbow grease needed on deck. Many fittings bent, etc. etc.

The boat did not sell for that, I'm not sure if and for how much it went. Guess that would be a low end reference.

We ended up buying a new one. Not without "teething" but, no life forms <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

Oscar
250WB#618 Lady Kay on the Chesapeake:
<img src="http://www.woodenshoemusic.com/Images/familypics/Forumshots/chesapeake.jpg" border=0>

Edited by - on

willy
Captain

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USA
422 Posts

Response Posted - 07/23/2003 : 15:17:28

Hey DB!
This spring I was in the same boat(no pun intended) as you. I kept looking for a 250WB... driving to Roanoke from Wilm DE to look at the boat that Oscar mentioned...by the way the guy that was selling that one for 17K had bought it off EBay for 9K and had never seen it... and driving to Southern Mass to look at one up there. In both instances i was extremely disappointed in the sellers version of "pristine". I will do you the biggest favor I can. Call this man...
Dave Condon
American Marine & Sail Supply, Inc.
1310 Old US 264 Hwy.
Zebulon, NC 27597
(919)404-1550 office
(919)404-1119 fax
He sold me my boat for A LOT less than I could find anywhere else. Delivered it to Delaware for the cost of his gas and a hotel room for one night, and knows the boats inside out. Not only that he has used boats also. Whether he has a late model 250 or not I don't know, but I will tell you if I ever had to buy another, he would get my business.
Bill

Edgy
Rehoboth Bay, DE

Edited by - on

frankr
Captain

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256 Posts

Response Posted - 07/24/2003 : 12:51:34

I also got my C250 WK from American Marine & Sail. The price was great compared to the Annalpolis area dealer. I had looked at alot of used sailboats and was really getting tired of the relative and misused term of good/excellant condition. They have a web site http://www.americanmarinesail.com/

Edited by - frankr on 07/24/2003 12:53:47

Edited by - on

arlingva
Navigator

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USA
116 Posts

Response Posted - 07/27/2003 : 13:36:42

Just thought I would jump on the bandwagon. I couldn't even get the Annapolis, MD dealer to give me a price. I went to New London, CT to buy my 2002 WK. They charged me $600 to deliver, but I saved 9k over the tentative price the Annapolis dealer was mentioning.

Bill

Bill Swanson
C250WK #614

Edited by - on

lewalskim
1st Mate

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USA
70 Posts

Response Posted - 08/05/2003 : 13:54:16

Dog,
I found my '96 250 WB in Ft. Myers, FL for $14k. It has wheel steering, bimini, all canvas covers incl. motor and wheel, VHF marine radio, knotmeter/depthsounder, Auto helm and a '97 Honda 9.9 l/s 4-stroke. I didn't get it surveyed since I had another keelboat surveyed and watched what was inspected. It was out of the water on a lift at the time I first saw it. My wife and I brought it up the intercoastal to St. Petersburg by ourselves over a weekend and slept on it.
My wife and I were at a Sail Expo in Nov 2001 and after looking at all the Hunters/Precisions etc... we fell in love with this boat. I couldn't afford a new one so I bought Sailboat Trader magazine and dreamed. In March '02, there was my boat.
I think that there are deals out there to be found if you are patient. If I had the money, I would have bought a brand new one at the Expo. I think that they are worth every cent for quality of workmanship and materials regardless of some problems that arise. My family and I have enjoyed sailing, motoring, swimming and just sitting eating dinner on our boat.
I had my CB cable replaced when I had a bottom job at a local marina. I think that the ball sheave on mine has some seating problems but I don't think that it is unrepairable; I just need to attend to it. I keep mine in a slip at our local marina. It's really nothing special to look at compared to the grander boats in the marina but it seems that everytime I'm on it, someone commends me on having such a great looking boat and that it looks very user friendly inside and out.

I hope that you can find a boat for yourself and enjoy it as much or more as most of the 250 owners do.

Good Luck!

Mark Lewalski
"Little Wind"
C250WB #206
Safety Harbor, Fl (aka Tampa Bay)

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Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
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