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Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3323 Posts

Initially Posted - 08/05/2003 : 22:37:10

If we were to hold next year's Nationals on Canyon Lake, Texas(Officers willing <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>) how many of you guys & gals would be willing to trailer to us? We are 250 miles South of Dallas and 600 miles South of Oklahoma City - basically a long way from everywhere <img src=icon_smile_sad.gif border=0 align=middle>
It would be economically impossible to hold it for less than 10 boats (total). We are a small but active yacht club with great race committees...
Derek

<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3dc30b3127cce942c608d6f1e0000001010" border=0>
TRFK#2262"This Side Up"

Edited by - on

gnorgan
Admiral

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USA
563 Posts

Response Posted - 08/06/2003 : 00:00:21

End of June? Count me in <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_cool.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_cool.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_approve.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_approve.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_approve.gif border=0 align=middle>
...and I didn't even check the mileage yet <img src=icon_smile_shock.gif border=0 align=middle>
(and I didn't ask my wife, either <img src=icon_smile_shock.gif border=0 align=middle>)

Gary & Susie Norgan
1989 C25 tall/wing
Classical Cat #5944
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3dc35b3127cce94ddf43b35f60000001010" border=0>

Edited by - on

Bryan Beamer
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1038 Posts

Response Posted - 08/06/2003 : 00:16:25

Daylight Again & crew will be there.

Bryan Beamer
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3d935b3127cce8ab87c3b48020000000010" border=0>
Daylight Again
C250wk #495
2003 National Champion

Edited by - on

svmoxie
Past Commodore

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USA
331 Posts

Response Posted - 08/06/2003 : 09:29:38

Let's see.... drive 1500 miles one way with 7000 lbs of boat and trailer to compete with Derek in his "house"..... hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

Seriously, I will be there but not likely with Moxie. I wouldn't miss it! Hopefully we can stir up some support. Derek how many local Catalinas do you think would participate?

Clif

Clif Thompson
Treasurer C-25/250 National Association.
svMoxie '81 25 sk

Edited by - on

Steve Kostanich
1st Mate

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88 Posts

Response Posted - 08/06/2003 : 11:36:41

I have a question concerning the make-up if a C-25 National Regatta fleet. We have std. rig, tall rig , swing keel, fin keel, and wing keel from the original C-25, and it sounds like the C-250 goes headsup in this mix also. If this is the case, we are not really much of a "One design" fleet. I would think that the C-25 and C-250 would at least be separated, aside from all the other differences.
Just wondering.
Steve Kostanich C-25 1119 Equinox sr/sk laying Oly., WA.

Edited by - on

svmoxie
Past Commodore

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331 Posts

Response Posted - 08/06/2003 : 13:26:31

Hi Steve,

Good question and your exactly right...

As long as there are enough boats for each class, ie. more than one, the tall rigs compete against each other, the standards against the other standards and the C250s against each other. Times are then corrected for differences in the keel configuration. If there are enough boats of each type we can break it out and have a true one design race but we race with all the classes running at the same time. The limiting factor becomes how many boats show up to race.

Hope that clears it up some. Take a look at the results from the 2003 Nationals on the racing page. It will help to see the classes we ran this year.

http://www.catalina25-250.org/racing/03nat.html

Regards

Clif Thompson
Treasurer C-25/250 National Association.
svMoxie '81 25 sk

Edited by - on

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3323 Posts

Response Posted - 08/06/2003 : 13:58:28

Clif - I know that Steve S. would race his C250, and I could probably persuade Buzz to enter his SRSK C25. Bren might be available on his C250 WB (depending on his schedule). We have a few other C25's on the lake that have never raced but maybe...
I'm returning to Texas tomorrow so I'll chat with the Club's Exec. Comm. this weekend (it's our Moonlight Regatta Sat. evening). We would need a minimum of 10 confirms to make it economically feasable for our club - we are friendly, but poor <img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle>
Derek
P.S. I haven't heard from our Officers yet...

<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3dc30b3127cce942c608d6f1e0000001010" border=0>
TRFK#2262"This Side Up"

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osmepneo
Past Commodore

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USA
1420 Posts

Response Posted - 08/06/2003 : 16:35:33

osmepneo does not have a trailer, but I'll plan on attending and looking for a ride.

Don Peet
c25, 1665, osmepneo, sr/wk
The Great Sacandaga Lake, NY

Edited by - on

Gary B.
Admiral

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USA
969 Posts

Response Posted - 08/06/2003 : 18:35:25

Hey, Steve K.

There is talk down here on the Columbia River about a regatta next summer at Lake Pend Oreille (sp?)(Bill Holcomb's stomping grounds). Would you be at all interested in getting in on that conversation? We might call it a "Regional" regatta, but I am wagering that we can get more folks there than has been the case at the "Nationals". What do you think? Some "fun" events as well as racing is being discussed......sounds like some fun to me. I hear it's gorgeous over there. Maybe others on Puget Sound would be interested as well.....

Wish you would have joined us for our One Design Regatta on the river this weekend. We only have 5 C25s for sure....waiting to hear from others. Happy sails to you.

Gary B.
Encore! #685 SK/SR

Edited by - on

gnorgan
Admiral

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USA
563 Posts

Response Posted - 08/07/2003 : 00:36:56

I have looked at the Lake Pend O. on their website and it looks pretty coooool <img src=icon_smile_cool.gif border=0 align=middle> to me. Need to check mileage there, also. Texas lake is about 1350 miles one way for me (SoCal). Maybe I haul to Pend O., then out to Columbia R. next summer to do the race you just did the past weekend? We were up on the Columbia River last summer for two weeks....sure would like to retire there, too, in 8-10 years. Teaching allows us to go places in the summer. Just need to make the "lesson plans" enough in advance to keep everything and everyone in order.
Actually, why not have the whole country just split into, say, four regional "nationals"? Or six regions, two west coast, two middle of the country, two east coast, northern and southern for all three? Sure, we need to find organizers and marks and committee boats and, etc., etc., ad naseum. Each area organizes for around the same time each year. Save the traveling and gas money.
I guess for me, having an east coast nationals takes away from what a "national" race truly means when I prefer not to drive across the country to do the racing.
Call the six areas regional races, then maybe have a west and east coast national race, sort of like having a west and east coast Catalina Rendevous. Use local races to tune for regionals which get you ready for East/West side of country national racing. Don't really need to be ON the coast, necessarily, just near each.
<img src=icon_smile_blackeye.gif border=0 align=middle> Oops...I'm a bit long-winded tonight...sorry

Gary & Susie Norgan
1989 C25 tall/wing
Classical Cat #5944
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3dc35b3127cce94ddf43b35f60000001010" border=0>

Edited by - on

Bryan Beamer
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1038 Posts

Response Posted - 08/07/2003 : 01:36:23

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> There is talk down here on the Columbia River about a regatta next summer at Lake Pend Oreille (sp?)(Bill Holcomb's stomping grounds). Would you be at all interested in getting in on that conversation? We might call it a "Regional" regatta, but I am wagering that we can get more folks there than has been the case at the "Nationals". What do you think? Some "fun" events as well as racing is being discussed......sounds like some fun to me. I hear it's gorgeous over there. Maybe others on Puget Sound would be interested as well.....
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Are there any C250's invited to this dance?

Bryan Beamer
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3d935b3127cce8ab87c3b48020000000010" border=0>
Daylight Again
C250wk #495
2003 National Champion

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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5909 Posts

Response Posted - 08/07/2003 : 10:25:44

Gary, your suggestion that there be regional regattas and an east coast and west coast national regatta is logical, but impractical. It’s difficult enough to persuade one person or club to sponsor a regatta each year. It would be doubly difficult to persuade two or more sponsors to make that commitment. Someone in those areas would have to volunteer to sponsor each regatta. At the moment, we are all talking about next year’s regatta, and, so far, nobody on either the east or west coast has stepped forward and volunteered to organize it. Only Derek has tentatively made that offer, and he’s in Texas. The National Association doesn’t really choose where the regatta will be held each year. The location is determined by the sponsor.

In 1985, immediately after the national regatta, we sent invitations to all the C-25 local clubs and, as I recall, printed an invitation in the Mainsheet, inviting all who wished to sponsor the next national regatta to submit proposals. I prepared a simple, one-page form for the sponsors to fill out and return to us. We received about 12-13 proposals that year. The organization actually had numerous locations to choose from. Presently, the local clubs are not well organized, and are generally less active, so, I don’t know whether such an approach would work today. An invitation for proposals should be published each year in the first issue of the Mainsheet after the national regatta. This forum only reaches some members. The Mainsheet reaches more members.

Sponsoring the national regatta doesn’t have to be either expensive or hard work. Bill Meinert did a great job this year, and he and his family and other helpers worked very hard, but it can be done much more simply.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> There is talk down here on the Columbia River about a regatta next summer at Lake Pend Oreille (sp?)(Bill Holcomb's stomping grounds). Would you be at all interested in getting in on that conversation? We might call it a "Regional" regatta, but I am wagering that we can get more folks there than has been the case at the "Nationals". <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

If you can get that many boats there, why call it a regional regatta. Why not call it the National Regatta? Why don't you guys and Derek, and anyone else, submit proposals to the National Officers.

Steve Milby "Captiva Wind" C-25 T/FK #2554

Edited by - on

osmepneo
Past Commodore

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USA
1420 Posts

Response Posted - 08/07/2003 : 13:14:21

Steve's comments hit a significant nail on the head. The strength of the National Association has to be in the local fleets that provide their members - all their members - benefits of belonging. As the local fleets are strengthened, then we would be able to have fleets that can organize and conduct national and regional events that some members will wnat to participate in. So it seems to me one focus of the Cat25/250 National Association has to be building up the local fleets. Strong local fleets will translate into strong regions and a strong National Association.

I would also agree that if Gary (Pacific NW) and Derek (SW) are interested in hosting major Association events, then they should both give the national officers something to talk about for a selection of a regatta site for 2004.

Don Peet
c25, 1665, osmepneo, sr/wk
The Great Sacandaga Lake, NY

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azexploder
1st Mate

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USA
78 Posts

Response Posted - 08/07/2003 : 23:30:52

Too many mountains between PHX and WA to drag to PNW. TX is 1000 miles of flat desert. I'll make TX if it is held there.
Getting close to racing time in the desert here. You can actualy touch the stainless without first degree burns now.
I will be battling a few C25's and ODay 25's in the PHRF. First time racing in the C250, spent last year with the C22.

regards
mike
C250 WB bluebyu2

Mike
C250 0048
Bluebyu2

Edited by - on

Gary B.
Admiral

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USA
969 Posts

Response Posted - 08/08/2003 : 01:10:39

FRIENDS: We are just BEGINNING to have conversations about next year at Pend Oreille (am I spelling this right?) It is Bill Holcomb's stomping grounds. After our "flotilla cruise" to the San Juans this summer, Ray Clift, of Fleet 94 contacted Bill. There is NO WAY I can speak for members of Bill's club about what they are able or willing to host in terms of a regatta, but the conversation must begin somewhere. I will try to speak to the racers in Fleet 94 this weekend, as we are competing in our annual One Design Regatta here on the Columbia.

Also, having just met and raced with Derek, in no way do I want to be perceived as trying to "upstage" a Nationals at Canyon Lake. I just know that for the number of us the the PNW, Texas is just as far for us to travel as it is for lots of you to come out here.

If we end up having a regatta with 10-15+ C25s, one probably SHOULD call it a "Nationals", as that is more boats than currently attend, it sounds like. Brian, I have no idea if C250s would be invited. Certainly, I cannot believe that anybody would choose to "diss" you, but we are rather 2 breeds of animal, I think. I have no idea how you rate next to us. Frankly, one really needs one fleet of tall rigs and one fleet of standard rigs as it is....Stay tuned, or get into the conversation yourself if you are interested in a Pend Oreille regatta next summer. Preliminary talks make it sound like the end of June when there's a better chance for decent air. I only know that Encore! would make every effort to attend and compete!

Gary Bruner

Encore! #685 SK/SR

Edited by - on

Bryan Beamer
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1038 Posts

Response Posted - 08/08/2003 : 11:26:46

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>If we end up having a regatta with 10-15+ C25s, one probably SHOULD call it a "Nationals", as that is more boats than currently attend, it sounds like. Brian, I have no idea if C250s would be invited. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

If c250's are not invited then it cannot be considered the Nationals.
The C25/250 Nationals consists of 3 classes
C25 TR
C25 SR
C250

I personally want the Nationals to be in the place were we can have the most boats in all 3 classes.

Bryan Beamer
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3d935b3127cce8ab87c3b48020000000010" border=0>
Daylight Again
C250wk #495
2003 National Champion

Edited by - on

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3323 Posts

Response Posted - 08/08/2003 : 14:19:25

Gary B. - in no way do I think that Bill's venue is "upstaging" the Nationals - maybe it will become the Nationals...
Bryan - I don't know about Lake Pend D'oreille, but the C250's are MOST certainly invited to any Nationals.
Steve - as soon as I can get a rough estimate on attendees, and discuss the logistics with my Exec. Comm. I will certainly put a proposal to the Officers.
Derek

<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3dc30b3127cce942c608d6f1e0000001010" border=0>
TRFK#2262"This Side Up"

Edited by - on

Gary B.
Admiral

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USA
969 Posts

Response Posted - 08/09/2003 : 11:55:57

Bryan: My comments about the C250 are only because fleet 94 has none as members. I am only aware of one or two on our river. I have no idea if C250s populate Lake Pend Oreille and surrounds. We'll have to find out, won't we? If it's a party, I'm for open invitations to all! I was simply commenting on the fact that I was unsure how they would rate. Currently, we are allowing TR to compete level with the SRs in our One Design regatta. If they begin to dominate, we'll have to re-think that situation. I will know more after 3 races today and 2 on Sunday!

Gary B.
Encore! #685 SK/SR

Edited by - on

John G-
Admiral

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793 Posts

Response Posted - 08/09/2003 : 14:56:31

Steve Milby wrote:
“An invitation for proposals should be published each year in the first issue of the Mainsheet after the national regatta. This forum only reaches some members. The Mainsheet reaches more members.”

I will be glad to put something in the Mainsheet. One of the officers should contact me so we can word it the way they want. Deadline for next issue is the first of September.

Don Peet “Osmepneo” wrote:
“The strength of the National Association has to be in the local fleets that provide their members - all their members - benefits of belonging. As the local fleets are strengthened, then we would be able to have fleets that can organize and conduct national and regional events that some members will wnat to participate in. So it seems to me one focus of the Cat25/250 National Association has to be building up the local fleets. Strong local fleets will translate into strong regions and a strong National Association.”

I agree. However both Ed Jakubas and I have made every attempt to contact the local fleets by snail mail and e-mail. The fact is even though we list about 21 fleets we only have four (4) active fleets. Fleet #3, Fleet #8, Fleet #94 and 250 Fleet #1. Fleet #94 seems to have the most active racing program and it looks like with this thread they are making a bid for the 2004 Nationals.
 

[url="http://www.peregrinefund.org/"]<img src="http://www.peregrinefund.org/images/intro_mid_image.GIF" border=0>[/url]
[url="http://www.catalina25-250.org/photo/peregrine2.jpg"]"Peregrine"[/url] C25-#4762 FK

Edited by - on

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3323 Posts

Response Posted - 08/10/2003 : 11:53:03

Well, so far we have two C25TR's, three C250's (two wk and one wb) and 2 possible extra crew. Another 5 probables and we can get more than speculation about Canyon Lake...
Derek

<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3dc30b3127cce942c608d6f1e0000001010" border=0>
TRFK#2262"This Side Up"

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Gary B.
Admiral

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USA
969 Posts

Response Posted - 08/10/2003 : 13:59:06

John: WAY PREMATURE to say that Fleet 94 is making a bid for nationals! One design race out here yesterday had only 5 C-25s, not as many as was hoped for (one tall rig). The regatta being discussed out here for next season would be in Lake Pend Oreille: not our Columbia River venue.

Please don't think that I, as fleet captain of Fleet 94, have made a bid for anything except ideas, comments, and suggestions.

Gary Bruner
Encore! #685 SK/SR

Edited by - on

John G-
Admiral

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793 Posts

Response Posted - 08/10/2003 : 16:34:19

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
John: WAY PREMATURE to say that Fleet 94 is making a bid for nationals! One design race out here yesterday had only 5 C-25s, not as many as was hoped for (one tall rig). The regatta being discussed out here for next season would be in Lake Pend Oreille: not our Columbia River venue.

Please don't think that I, as fleet captain of Fleet 94, have made a bid for anything except ideas, comments, and suggestions.

Gary Bruner
Encore! #685 SK/SR
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>
 Gary,
Sorry. My mistake. <img src=icon_smile_blush.gif border=0 align=middle>
My geography of the Northwest and who is grouped with whom (?) is a little hazy.
I should not have included that last sentence.

The fact that there are two (or more) groups/individuals exploring the idea of getting the Nationals” in their area is great. I think this years Regatta has turned out to be a catalyst for the entire Assoc. to look forward to well organized and well attended Regattas’ each year.
Hopefully we have many more years of Nationals ahead of us and each region should get a chance to host a "Nationals". The disappointment of 2002 should be avoided if possible.
Also we do have only four (4) active fleets and I don’t mean to imply that only local fleets can host a “Nationals”.

One idea would be for the Assoc. officers to sanction various regional regattas and to designate one regatta each year as the “Nationals”. I think that would build back the idea of local fleets and add strength to the whole membership. There doesn’t have to be regional regatta’s in every area, only those who can put on a regatta that draws a good amount of C25/C250 members to sail and race would be sanctioned.
We should encourage all local groups to form fleets even if they are an auxiliary of a larger yacht club.
The success you (Fleet #94) are having as our newest fleet shows that the fleet structure can and should be rebuilt.
 

[url="http://www.peregrinefund.org/"]<img src="http://www.peregrinefund.org/images/intro_mid_image.GIF" border=0>[/url]
[url="http://www.catalina25-250.org/photo/peregrine2.jpg"]"Peregrine"[/url] C25-#4762 FK

Edited by - john g- on 08/10/2003 18:08:37

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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2980 Posts

Response Posted - 08/14/2003 : 14:31:35

I'd attend with boat a regatta at Canyon Lake even though my boat is cruiser heavy... the fellowship would be great.

A few thoughts, I would be in favor of regional regattas and really don't think its necessary to look at one location as the Nationals if two or more regionals are held.

Finally, I would suggest a poling of those who would attend a Texas location to see if a more favorable season of late April or early May would be preferred because of heat and winds.

Arlyn C-250 W/B #224
<img src="http://www.stewartfam.net/arlyn/rr.jpg" border=0>
N/E Texas and Great Lakes

[url="http://www.cox-internet.com/arlynstewart/"]Arlyn's C250 Mods n Cruisin Stories[/url]

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Oscar
Master Marine Consultant

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2030 Posts

Response Posted - 08/14/2003 : 15:25:19

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> even though my boat is cruiser heavy<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Arlyn, as stated elsewhere we had Lady Kay down to the waterline with people and stuff....my guess a thou or more lbs. Much less weatherhelm, no reef in 15 kts, tracking nicely 5.5-6kts boat speed, 35/40 degrees to the wind, a nice heavy-boat stable feel to it, not being stopped by the chop. In the right conditions cruising weight makes this boat handle very nicely. I'm sure you have similar experiences from the lakes.

Oscar
250WB#618 Lady Kay on the Chesapeake
<img src="http://www.woodenshoemusic.com/Images/familypics/Forumshots/sunglitter.JPG" border=0>

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Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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3323 Posts

Response Posted - 08/14/2003 : 21:05:33

And Arlyn makes SIX! We now would have a C250 fleet....but not enough for a C25 one...
Do I hear a 7???<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
Derek

<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3dc30b3127cce942c608d6f1e0000001010" border=0>
TRFK#2262"This Side Up"

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Carl B.
1st Mate

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83 Posts

Response Posted - 08/14/2003 : 22:45:32

I think I could make down I-35 with my C-25

"OBLIVIOUS" C25 '82 #3098 SR/FK/Trad

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