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Tall rig, how to tell

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mtiffee
1st Mate

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USA
57 Posts

Initially Posted - 08/28/2003 : 08:55:12

The search function on here always times out so sorry if this has been covered.

I haven't been able to do a side by side comparison with another C-25, but last night was sailing next to one and noticed his mast seemed shorter and his boom seemed higher than mine. Other than measuring, is there a way to tell a tall rig from a standard rig?? I'm wondering if I have a '89 WK/TR.. The PO wasn't sure when I bought mine and I've just always assumed SR.

Mike

Mike
'89 SR/WK "Freelancer"
#5927

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 08/28/2003 : 09:13:53

Those are the symptoms... The mast is 2' taller, and the boom 1' lower, giving you a 3' longer luff. If you have an original (or proper) mainsail, have it fully hoisted, and your boom is only about 5' above the cockpit sole when sheeted in tightly, that's a pretty good clue.

Dave Bristle - 1985 C-25 #5032 SR-FK-Dinette-Honda "Passage" in SW CT

Edited by - dave bristle on 08/28/2003 10:28:08

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djones
1st Mate

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USA
56 Posts

Response Posted - 08/28/2003 : 11:07:23

The tall rig and standard rig have slightly different mast extrusions. Look at the vertical slot the main sail rides in. Measure from the inside edge of the slot inward toward the center of the mast. if the depth is 3/4", you have a standard rig mast. If it's 1/2", you have a tall rig mast.

-don

Don & Freda Jones
"Swept Away" '83 C25 SR/FK
Charlotte, Southport, NC

Edited by - on

Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 08/28/2003 : 17:32:31

<center>Tall rig or standard rig? How to tell.</center>

One way is to measure the luff of your mainsail and compare it to the dimensions listed in the owner's manual available elsewhere on this website.

Another method is to run a tape measure up the mast with one of the halyards. From that, estimate the length of the mast extrusion to the nearest foot. As I recall, the tall extrusion is exactly 30', and the standard is 28'.

There is also a difference in the cross section, or foot print, of the two extrusions. According to the factory drawings, the tall extrusion is 6"x3-1/4" and the standard is4-1/2"x3".

-- Leon Sisson

Edited by - on

matsche
Captain

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USA
280 Posts

Response Posted - 08/28/2003 : 18:12:06

Bruises on your forehead! Also, if you can't figure how on earth you could get a bimini to fit under your boom while sailing, then you've got the tall rig. Welcome to the club!

John Matsche 1985 TR/FK #5171

Edited by - on

oldsalt
Admiral

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USA
578 Posts

Response Posted - 08/28/2003 : 19:18:04

You have a tall rig. <img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle>

Mark, Silver Girl, '83 lead fin keel, tall rig #3744

Edited by - oldsalt on 08/28/2003 19:21:48

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 08/28/2003 : 20:18:07

An easy way to determine if you have a tall rig without measuring a thing and without leaving your home is to simply call and ask Catalina Yachts. Have your HIN ready when you make the call.

<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>Don Lucier<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b2d904b3127cce9f7cd9ffdf1d0000003010" border=0>
North Star SR/FK

Edited by - on

Douglas
Master Marine Consultant

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1595 Posts

Response Posted - 08/28/2003 : 21:37:26

Is this about the old Polish guy wanting to know how tall a telephone poll was ? <img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b2d823b3127cce9e4e988f98170000001610" border=0>

Doug&Ruth
Triska (Alberg 29)
Tacoma Wa.

Edited by - on

Sea Trac
Master Marine Consultant

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Vanuatu
1357 Posts

Response Posted - 08/28/2003 : 21:52:42

Ah, man. Now I've got rig envy.

J.B. Manley, Antares '85 FK/SR #4849
Grand Lake O' The Cherokees, NE Oklahoma

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 08/28/2003 : 22:09:59

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Ah, man. Now I've got rig envy.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>
I wouldn't trade if you paid me... unless of course you REALLY paid me. The low boom would p!ss me off, and I'd be constantly reefing in the winds I enjoy most. It may look more manly (pardon the pun), but it's not for everyone.<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

Dave Bristle - 1985 C-25 #5032 SR-FK-Dinette-Honda "Passage" in SW CT

Edited by - on

Sea Trac
Master Marine Consultant

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Vanuatu
1357 Posts

Response Posted - 08/28/2003 : 22:31:24

I know. I really do love my boat. And, I just keep telling myself...Shannon 50, Shannon 50, Shannon 50.

Don't worry about the pun; doesn't bristle me t'all. <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

J.B. Manley, Antares '85 FK/SR #4849
Grand Lake O' The Cherokees, NE Oklahoma

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 08/28/2003 : 22:57:23

I wouldn't trade for a TR either.

The increased sail area would be trickier in the heavier winds of my sailing venue. Heck, I'm glad North Star came with a 135 RF genoa instead of a 150, because the 135 is more than enough sail for my prevailing winds.

<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>Don Lucier<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b2d904b3127cce9f7cd9ffdf1d0000003010" border=0>
North Star SR/FK

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Buzz Maring
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1774 Posts

Response Posted - 08/28/2003 : 23:06:31

Ah, man. Now I've got rig envy. - J.B.

Holy cow J.B. ... you got me laughing so hard I got tears in my eyes! ... <img src=icon_smile_clown.gif border=0 align=middle>

Buzz Maring
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3df23b3127cce9306a9b3abad0000001010" border=0>
~~Freya~~
C-25 SK/SR #68

Edited by - on

mtiffee
1st Mate

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USA
57 Posts

Response Posted - 08/29/2003 : 00:40:55

Hmmm. maybe I'll have to measure or call Catalina.

If you goto http://www.catalina25.com there is a picture of my boat, maybe someone will recognize some clues.. If I have a TR, I'll have to update my for sale listing for her..

http://www.catalina25-250.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=4366

Thanks for the suggestions.

Mike

Mike
'89 SR/WK "Freelancer"
#5927

Edited by - on

Douglas
Master Marine Consultant

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1595 Posts

Response Posted - 08/29/2003 : 01:18:51

Standard rig. Yep standard rig. No wait maybe not.

Doug&Ruth
Triska (Alberg 29)
Tacoma Wa.

Edited by - Douglas on 08/29/2003 12:42:28

Edited by - on

Sea Trac
Master Marine Consultant

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Vanuatu
1357 Posts

Response Posted - 08/29/2003 : 10:29:19

Mike,

I'm just curious 1) why you're selling that beautiful boat, and 2) how on earth did you end up with the catalina25 domain name?

J.B. Manley, Antares '85 FK/SR #4849
Grand Lake O' The Cherokees, NE Oklahoma

Edited by - on

matsche
Captain

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USA
280 Posts

Response Posted - 08/29/2003 : 11:23:52

Hey come on guys! Ease up on the tall rigs. There's advantages to it too! Especially on those light air days: Who says size doesn't matter? <img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle>

John Matsche 1985 TR/FK #5171

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Buzz Maring
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1774 Posts

Response Posted - 08/29/2003 : 11:51:50

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Hey come on guys! Ease up on the tall rigs. There's advantages to it too! Especially on those light air days: Who says size doesn't matter? <img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle>

John Matsche 1985 TR/FK #5171

<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

There's no doubt about it, having more canvass up can be a real advantage when you know what you're doing ... Derek kicks everybody's gluteus maximus on Canyon Lake!

As for me ... I prefer a beer and a bimini ... <img src=icon_smile_cool.gif border=0 align=middle>

Buzz Maring
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3df23b3127cce9306a9b3abad0000001010" border=0>
~~Freya~~
C-25 SK/SR #68

Edited by - on

Douglas
Master Marine Consultant

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1595 Posts

Response Posted - 08/29/2003 : 12:41:39

Here is my view on the Tall rig. You can always take in a little sail but if you dont have the tall rig you can't put more up. Our light air summers suck unless you have as much sail as you can get up. <img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b2d906b3127cce9f661340ae310000001610" border=0>

Doug&Ruth
Triska (Alberg 29)
Tacoma Wa.

Edited by - on

tinob
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1883 Posts

Response Posted - 08/29/2003 : 14:54:52

Mike, definitely a tall rig. The better photo to determine tall/reg would be a picture of the bruises on your head. Stand tall in the cockpit while under sail and then tack, no bruises regular rig.

Val on OUCH! Calista # 3936

Val Bisagni]<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3df11b3127cce94709c5ff2e90000000010" border=0>

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 08/29/2003 : 16:17:39

For a racer the tall rig is, without question, the way to go and I wouldn't really mind owning one, but the standard rig is probably a better choice for the majority of us C25 owners who are just casual sailors/cruisers. This is probably why Catalina built most C25's as standard rigs, to appeal to the masses.

The tall rig's advantages come into play in lighter winds where the larger sail area can keep the boat moving a bit faster than the standard rig. This is important when racing where every tick of the knotmeter is crucial, but when I'm out casual sailing/cruising and the wind starts to go south and the VMG starts to suffer (which in turn makes the Admiral suffer <img src=icon_smile_angry.gif border=0 align=middle> )it's time to fire up the iron genny and get to where I'm going.

Although I have never sailed a tall rig, I have to believe that with it's taller, more substantial rig and sails, the TR has to be more tender than the SR. This increased tenderness would not be a problem for me, but it would be for my admiral who believes our SR is too tender for her tastes.

<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>Don Lucier<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b2d904b3127cce9f7cd9ffdf1d0000003010" border=0>
North Star SR/FK

Edited by - on

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3324 Posts

Response Posted - 08/29/2003 : 16:25:40

Don - having raced both TR's and SR's I have to agree with you. In the 2000 Nationals I helmed Vern Marion's SR - the TR's on the first day, with wind 20+, all had to reef but we just kept boogeing with a full main. I also wouldn't want a TR on the Columbia River - Gary B's SR handled the 20+ winds there quite nicely! But on a lake it's very nice to have that extra sail area...although there are times you have to be quick about easing the mainsheet!<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>
Derek

<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3dc30b3127cce942c608d6f1e0000001010" border=0>
TRFK#2262"This Side Up"

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 08/29/2003 : 19:20:31

Question...

Have any of you tall rig owners put a standard rig main sail on your boat to raise the boom two feet for the added head/bimini room?

<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>Don Lucier<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b2d904b3127cce9f7cd9ffdf1d0000003010" border=0>
North Star SR/FK

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matsche
Captain

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USA
280 Posts

Response Posted - 08/29/2003 : 20:20:38

The Catalina 25's not a tender boat tall or standard rigged. You do have to reef earlier (usually above 15 knots), but hull shape and ballast are the same. The big disadvantage of the tall rig is the low boom. It makes adding a bimini more challenging and if you're not careful, you will get hit. To compensate you can reef the main while using a bimini, but I think it'd be foolish to install a standard sail on a tall rigged boat, as you couldn't take advantage of the later in low wind.

I'm not a racer, just another cruiser, but I like the added performance.

John Matsche 1985 TR/FK #5171

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 08/29/2003 : 21:03:10

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>The Catalina 25's not a tender boat tall or standard rigged. You do have to reef earlier (usually above 15 knots), but hull shape and ballast are the same.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

I didn't say the C25 was a tender boat, but instead was referring to the relative tenderness between the tall and standard rigs.

As you stated the hull and ballast are the same with the only difference being that the TR's mast extrusion is not only longer, but has a larger footprint making it more substantial(read "heavier"). This heavier rig with more windage aloft and the increased sail area would have to make the TR more tender(Again, I'm NOT saying these boats are tender) than the SR.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>I think it'd be foolish to install a standard sail on a tall rigged boat, as you couldn't take advantage of the later in low wind. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Well, I don't know about that. Say you did put an SR main on a TR...you would still have the massive headsail which on the C25 is the power sail and I'll bet loosing an arms length of cloth from the main might not appreciably affect performance for a cruiser.

<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>Don Lucier<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b2d904b3127cce9f7cd9ffdf1d0000003010" border=0>
North Star SR/FK

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 08/29/2003 : 21:15:51

I'm trying to picture an SR sail on a TR mast... Fully hoisted, the boom will be 3' higher than normal, probably above the kerf in the mast (which can be tricky when you hoist and douse the sail), and it's 2' higher than on my SR. That's about 7'6" above the cockpit sole. One effect that comes to mind is that the already silly C-25 traveler becomes essentially meaningless. But you surely have room for a bimini!

Dave Bristle - 1985 C-25 #5032 SR-FK-Dinette-Honda "Passage" in SW CT

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 08/29/2003 21:18:22

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