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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

keel winch failure

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premodco
Deckhand

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USA
22 Posts

Initially Posted - 08/28/2003 : 19:28:15

I have an 85 SK. When I went to lower the keel by turning the crank counter clockwise I heard a shap sound coming from the winch and then it wanted to free wheel down. (i.e. if I let go of the handle, the winch would spin rapidly until the keel was fully lowered.) Also, if you crank it up, it will not stay put, but just free wheel back down. I did not want to take it apart today, but I expected to find a broken piece or two on the floor, but there was nothing. Nor do I see any kind of "paw" like you might find on a typical winch. I know there are parts inside the winch...like friction pads of some sort.

Question 1-what broke and where is it

Question 2-are internal parts available

Question 3-If I get a new winch form Catalina Direct, will my old handle work with it?

I was lucky to have had a good grip on the handle, that it was a calm day and not my wife or son was lowering this thing. That handle would have been deadly.

adam starr

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 08/28/2003 : 23:51:43

There is a little spring-loaded rocker pawl that is held in place by a bolt on the 'inside' of the winch. Can't say if that's what broke, but there isn't much else in there to go 'ping'.

Replacement part available? Dunno... my guess is if it's an older model winch, probably not. It is shame to pay $90 for a new winch over a $1 part.

There was a discussion on winch handles awhile back, probably show up in a site search on winch.. to the best of my aging recollection, I think there were issues with the new/old winches on handle compatiblity.

As you've already realized, these winches are not an area where scrimping is a good idea.

Currently maintaining two holes in the water...'77 Venture 23 and new to the family,
'78 Catalina 25

Edited by - on

lcharlot
Master Marine Consultant

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Antigua and Barbuda
1301 Posts

Response Posted - 08/29/2003 : 00:44:27

I just replaced my winch last weekend, and paid $50 more for a new handle, later to discover that the old handle fits the new winch just fine. Oh, well, I guess I have a spare handle now.

Larry Charlot
Catalina 25 #1205 "Quiet Time"
Folsom Lake, CA

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Brooke Willson
Admiral

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USA
983 Posts

Response Posted - 08/31/2003 : 21:47:40

Adam: been there, done that, and almost broke my finger when I reflexively tried to grab the spinning winch handle. Call Catalina Direct and tell them you want a new winch, AND that you want the adapter that mates the shaft and the handle. The adapter is held on with an Allen screw that in my case was firmly rusted in place.

There is no pawl on the winch -- there's a pretty ingenious clutch mechanism that opens to let you lower the keel, then closes as you lift.

It takes a minor contortionist to get to the bolt heads on the winch. I don't remember the hex head size, but having a LONG box wrench is almost mandatory.

Good luck!

Brooke

Edited by - brooke willson on 08/31/2003 21:50:16

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ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 09/01/2003 : 00:11:28

"There is no pawl on the winch"

Yes there is... at least on my stock '78 vintage winch.

Look about halfway between the shaft for the main drum and the shaft for the 'crank/brake' assembly. There will be a 'third' bolt on the front plate of the winch.

On the 'inside' of that bolt is a pawl with a stainless wire spring. The pawl engages a smaller 'secondary' gear on the crank shaft. The engagement of that secondary crankshaft gear is what lets the brake bind tight and hold the keel up... and loosen when you turn the crank in reverse. The brake system wouldn't work without the pawl.

I sent you both some emails with shots of the winch.

Currently maintaining two holes in the water...'77 Venture 23 and new to the family,
'78 Catalina 25

Edited by - on

Brooke Willson
Admiral

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USA
983 Posts

Response Posted - 09/01/2003 : 07:55:35

I stand corrected. My point was (and is) that there's not a ratcheting mechanism as on a trailer winch, wherein a pawl must be manually released for the winch to reverse.

If he has a 1985 boat (same year as mine) and the winch is original, he would do well to replace the winch rather than repair it. He's gotten his money out of that winch, and should retire it. It's a small investment for peace of mind.

Brooke

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 09/01/2003 : 11:40:57

"wherein a pawl must be manually released for the winch to reverse"..

Yup, true enough... I wasn't really trying to be anal here, but the orginal message context was asking what could go 'ping' inside the winch. Overall, it's a rugged and ingenious system that works remarkably well.

Completely agree if the winch was in a failure mode, I'd just replace it. Mine was still functioning properly... just rusty... so I cleaned, re-lubed and repainted. Ff cleaned up regularly, there's very little to go wrong.

I've 'rebuilt' several of these... (Venture swing keels use the same system)

Currently maintaining two holes in the water...'77 Venture 23 and new to the family,
'78 Catalina 25

Edited by - on

ddlyle
Captain

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302 Posts

Response Posted - 09/02/2003 : 21:55:40

<b>Speaking of maintenance ...</b>
<i>Good Idea !!</i>
So, how can I lubricate my (1986) winch?
What other maintenance should I do?
It works great and I leave my keel down 98% of the time.
(I only raise it when traversing skinny water, or I ended up too near
(on) a shoal,<img src=icon_smile_shock.gif border=0 align=middle> which fortunately is sandy here and not rocky.)
Thanks

Cap'n Dave
Sailing The Blues
1986 C25 sr/sk #5413

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ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 09/02/2003 : 23:56:10

There is really not a whole lot of maintenance to do in there. There is a total of... lets see... about 6 parts or so.

Once extracted from the boat, you can dismantle the winch quite easily in a few minutes.

I had removed my cabin steps to ease the replacement of the keel cable, hose and turning ball. While I had things torn out, I went thru the winch.. as it was getting rusty. I think servicing the winch whenever you change the keel cable is probably a good maintenance interval.

Wire brush rust away... and wipe clean with thinner, prime and paint as needed. Inspect the pawl and spring and make sure they are ok.
Put a little grease on the moving portions of the shafts during re-assembly and you're done.

(Always being careful to keep any grease away from the brake pads).

Rust is the real enemy of the winch... I wish they made one in stainless !

Currently maintaining two holes in the water...'77 Venture 23 and new to the family,
'78 Catalina 25

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The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.