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Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Initially Posted - 10/06/2003 : 11:37:22

I added this to my "documentation" folder. I thought others might like to do the same. Note the reverse L shape port settee.
<img src="http://members.cox.net/fhopper/Catalina25/jag25view.jpg" border=0>

<img src="http://members.cox.net/fhopper/Catalina25/sigbow.jpg" border=0>Frank and Martha in Wichita KS. Lake Cheney

Edited by - on

timpky
1st Mate

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USA
41 Posts

Response Posted - 10/06/2003 : 12:41:07

I find the set up for the main sheet to be interesting. On mine it is mounded to the end of the boom and back to the traveler mounted on the transom.

Tim Peoples
Sarasota, FL
78 Catalina 25 SK Hull #875

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 10/06/2003 : 15:18:15

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
I find the set up for the main sheet to be interesting. On mine it is mounded to the end of the boom and back to the traveler mounted on the transom.

Tim Peoples
Sarasota, FL
78 Catalina 25 SK Hull #875
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>
I wonder if Jaguar Yachts has the traveler bridge in the picture available for sale?

<img src="http://members.cox.net/fhopper/Catalina25/sigbow.jpg" border=0>Frank and Martha in Wichita KS. Lake Cheney

Edited by - on

SteveMcHugh
Deckhand

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USA
12 Posts

Response Posted - 10/06/2003 : 15:52:59

I was in Seattle this past summer and saw many 25s with the travler set just below the main hatch.

Edited by - on

Brooke Willson
Admiral

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USA
983 Posts

Response Posted - 10/06/2003 : 17:14:37

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> I was in Seattle this past summer and saw many 25s with the travler set just below the main hatch.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Steve, when you say below, do you mean the ends were below the level of the seats? If so, were the ends mounted through holes in the seats, or attached to the vertical walls?

It has long seemed to me that this would be the best place to mount the traveler, but I've never seen it. Anone out there got a picture?

Brooke

Edited by - on

osmepneo
Past Commodore

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USA
1420 Posts

Response Posted - 10/06/2003 : 18:34:48

osmepneo's traveller is a Harken ball bearing traveller mounted just aft of the companionway. IT IS CLASS ILLEGAL. If I ever race in a c25/250 event, I'll have to work out a transome mounted traveller.

The Harken traveller is bolted to the seats, port and starbord, and the traveller is controlled by a continuous line, which allows one to adjust it from either side, either pulling it to windward or letting off to leeward.

It weould be a great arrangement if sailing with people who knew how to adjust the main sheet and the traveller. ZIt is a pain, and possibly a sexual misconduct issue to reach under the legs of the crew to get to either the traveller or the main sheet.

One of my projects this past year, now over the winter is to rebuild the transom mounted traveller for day sailing with other crew. I'll try to get a picture for you next w/e.

Don Peet
c25, 1665, osmepneo, sr/wk
The Great Sacandaga Lake, NY

Edited by - on

Bill Holcomb
Admiral

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USA
769 Posts

Response Posted - 10/07/2003 : 10:16:17

Hi Don,

I think you meant to say that your traveler is NOT class legal. The C25 class rules state "Travelers must remain on the transom and will be limited so that the mainsheet attachment point may not travel past the point at which the factory installed traveler bar intersected the transom. No rope or wire travelers will be permitted." So, clearly, a traveler setup other than at the transom would not qualify for C25/C250 Association rules racing.

Technically, for PHRF racing, the handicapper should penalize non-stock setups too. Although, I suspect that most handicappers don't know the rules from class to class well enough to make this determination. So, the handicappers only pay attention to sail size, etc.

Finally, for those racing skippers reading this thread, if you feel that an alternative to the current rule should be considered, any current member of the association can propose changes to the constitution, by-laws, and racing rules. The proposed change can then be voted on by the members.

Bill Holcomb - C25 Snickerdoodle #4839

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osmepneo
Past Commodore

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USA
1420 Posts

Response Posted - 10/07/2003 : 11:59:56

Yes, Bill, I meant to say that my traveller configuaration is not class legal, my IT IS CLASS ILLEGAL was and is an awkward way of saying it. thanks for clarifying it.

Does your comment

No rope or wire travelers will be permitted.

mean that ropes or wires connect to a ball bearing block, to control the traveller adjustment are illegal?

Don Peet
c25, 1665, osmepneo, sr/wk
The Great Sacandaga Lake, NY

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 10/07/2003 : 15:37:35

One note on the traveler located in front of the companionway - makes for difficult in and out of the cabin, especially while underway.

dw

D. Wolff - "The Flying Wasp" #401 sr/sk
Chief Measurer C-25/250 National Assn.
<img src="http://www.flags.com/images/layout/category_images/t_3964.jpg" border=0>

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Brooke Willson
Admiral

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USA
983 Posts

Response Posted - 10/07/2003 : 16:04:04

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>One note on the traveler located in front of the companionway - makes for difficult in and out of the cabin, especially while underway.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

It certainly does if the traveler car is centered. With the car even a little to one side or the other, it shouldn't be a big hassle. I've thought about this for five years now, but haven't seen a C25 with the relocated traveler yet. I'll gladly accept stepping around the mainsheet for a cockpit-covering bimini, not getting clotheslined on tacks and gybes, and a mainsheet tail not draped on the wrong side of the tiller.

I do love my C25, but the traveler location is, IMHO, the single worst piece of its design (although the icebox is close).

Brooke

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Chip Hunt
Navigator

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120 Posts

Response Posted - 10/07/2003 : 18:30:43

i could be wrong, but i think this is an exploded view of a c27.

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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5933 Posts

Response Posted - 10/07/2003 : 18:48:06

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>i could be wrong, but i think this is an exploded view of a c27. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

I looked at that picture half a dozen times and didn't notice that!

Steve Milby "Captiva Wind" C-25 T/FK #2554

Edited by - on

Bryan Beamer
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1038 Posts

Response Posted - 10/07/2003 : 19:56:25

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>One note on the traveler located in front of the companionway - makes for difficult in and out of the cabin, especially while underway. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

The C250 wk has the traveler in that location. It is no big deal to get in or out of the cabin. The kids use it as a hand hold.

Bryan Beamer
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3d607b3127cce8d07b033366e0000003180" border=0>
Daylight Again
C250wk #495
2003 National Champion

Edited by - on

10timesSaltier
1st Mate

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80 Posts

Response Posted - 10/07/2003 : 20:49:12

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>i could be wrong, but i think this is an exploded view of a c27. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

I'm no expert, but most 27's I've seen don't have a transom-hung rudder.

Brian.
Great Salt Lake (10-times saltier than the ocean)
"SAFARI", '81 C25 TR-FK #2275

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Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 10/07/2003 : 21:26:16

It is a 25, go to the Jaguar site in my other post and you will get to see the interior.

<img src="http://members.cox.net/fhopper/Catalina25/sigbow.jpg" border=0>Frank and Martha in Wichita KS. Lake Cheney

Edited by - on

aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1709 Posts

Response Posted - 10/08/2003 : 10:06:53

Just to beat this topic to death one more time......I have considered changing the main sheet traveler to the hatchway or extend it port and starboard on the transome, for some years. In my opinion, the existing traveler does not allow enough space to close or open the mainsail leach. It is also very difficult to release the main sheet from the traveler jaws when it is under load, a serious safety issue. Finally, I also would prefer to lean forward to adjust/release the main sheet and keep slightly left or right of center when cruising, rather than having to duck around it at each tack.

Can you show a photo of your system Don?

Al Eckhart
C25T 5801

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osmepneo
Past Commodore

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USA
1420 Posts

Response Posted - 10/08/2003 : 10:54:01

I'm planning on going to the boat Friday a.m. and will take the camara over to get a picture. I'll be back in the afternoon, I have a 4:30 wedding that afternoon.

Pictures are coming!

Don Peet
c25, 1665, osmepneo, sr/wk
The Great Sacandaga Lake, NY

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Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 10/08/2003 : 11:31:34

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
I have considered changing the main sheet traveler to the hatchway or extend it port and starboard on the transome, for some years. In my opinion, the existing traveler does not allow enough space to close or open the mainsail leach. It is also very difficult to release the main sheet from the traveler jaws when it is under load, a serious safety issue.
Al Eckhart
C25T 5801
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>
The guy in our fleet that finishes well in racing took advantage of Harken's custom bending and removed the horse from the transom, making room for a Harken track to fit all the way across the transom (to the places where the old vents used to go rises). he has a Harken mainsheet purchase and the cam cleat is "up side down" pointing up instead of down. I think you just take it off the bottom of the mounting plate and put it on the top. The action is very smooth and easy to release. I agree this original 20 year old rig I have is a killer. I am looking at a Schaefer X trac that I can mount on my horse (through bolt) at an angle that will be in line with the mainsheet, that should help the car move more freely. This Schaefer idea seems to be the cheapest fix I can come up with. Right now there might as well not be a traveler back there, it is too hard to use to be of value. If it does not work out I am going to the companionway too! Years ago I did that on a Spirit 23. I read where the loads would be "soo great" and over designed something awfull. I used a solid 2x12 piece of oak and cut notches on both sides so it covered the cockpit and had only 2 inches of height over the seats. I was able to mount some instruments and doo dads on the deep part that hung down in front of the companion way. The varnish (urathane) held up nicely and it looked good when I traded the boat.

<img src="http://members.cox.net/fhopper/Catalina25/sigbow.jpg" border=0>Frank and Martha in Wichita KS. Lake Cheney

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Rollins
1st Mate

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USA
50 Posts

Response Posted - 10/17/2003 : 22:36:58

Regarding the traveler, has anyone ever considered taking two straight stanchion bases and mounting them opposing just below the cockpit seat level; then put a length of stainless tubing into the stanchion bases, slide it into the cockpit, and place it across the cockpit just forward of the cockpit lockers to use as a traveler mount; then take the existing traveler bar off the stern and screw it to the tubing; then move the existing traveler forward? It wouldn't cost much, and should be pretty easy to do. Plus, it would be easy to 'undo' if you don't like it. I'm thinking of it, but thinking is as far as its gotten so far. I too don't like where the traveler is located.

Mike Rollins
Wind Walker SR/WK

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ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 10/18/2003 : 12:09:33

"...considered taking two straight stanchion bases..."

I wonder if the stock traveller tubing will be stout enough if moved forward?

Remember that the mainsail gets more and more leverage as the mainsheet control is moved toward the mast. Most of the forward mounted travellers I've seen are secured and supported over their entire length. (with a structural bridge over the cockpit)

WOTAM - '77 Catalina 25 SK/SR Sail Number 158

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 10/18/2003 : 21:45:44

[quote]
Regarding the traveler, has anyone ever considered taking two straight stanchion bases and mounting them opposing just below the cockpit seat level; then put a length of stainless tubing into the stanchion bases, slide it into the cockpit, and place it across the cockpit just forward of the cockpit lockers to use as a traveler mount; then take the existing traveler bar off the stern and screw it to the tubing; then move the existing traveler forward? It wouldn't cost much, and should be pretty easy to do. Plus, it would be easy to 'undo' if you don't like it. I'm thinking of it, but thinking is as far as its gotten so far. I too don't like where the traveler is located.

Mike Rollins
Wind Walker SR/WK

What you are describing sounds alot like the traveler support ion the exploded view at te top. I emailed Jaguar to see if I could get one but did not get an answer. I wonder who in England is Jaguar's Garhauer.

<img src="http://members.cox.net/fhopper/Catalina25/sigbow.jpg" border=0>Frank and Martha in Wichita KS. Lake Cheney

Edited by - on

IndyJim
Navigator

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USA
130 Posts

Response Posted - 10/26/2003 : 01:22:25

Brooke,
When I bought my C-25 two years ago, the PO had converted to the "below the companionway" mainsheet traveler. And I guess I was a bit naive about it getting in the way. And I guess it does when it is positioned in the middle but non prohibitive to cabin entry.

What it does achieve is: My bimini never conflicts with mainsheet hanging off the end of the boom. And as I happened to mention on another posting (apologies for being repetitive) I can stand behind my wheel steering without being lynched!

So, Brooke, sir, you are right on the money. I will try to snap a couple of shots of it the next time I'm onboard if you'd like.

I have several modifications that the PO did that I have since found out are a bit different. The dodger, bimini, wheel steering and companionway traveler just to name a few.

As I have stated before, there are no wrong configurations if it fits your needs. The C-25 sailing world would be pretty boring if we all had the same set ups.

Edited by - on

Brooke Willson
Admiral

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USA
983 Posts

Response Posted - 10/27/2003 : 13:21:08

Jim, I would love to see your pics of the traveler and the bimini. Please especially show us how the traveler is anchored to whatever it's attached. And poor old Steve on 77Gypsy would probably love to see pics of your wheel steering setup.

Brooke

Edited by - Brooke Willson on 10/27/2003 13:21:59

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 11/15/2004 : 21:36:41

Lets look at this again

Edited by - on

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3324 Posts

Response Posted - 11/15/2004 : 22:53:41

I've posted these pics before - it's how I turned a useless piece of equipment into a usable item!

(Total cost $144)

The control lines are left separate to avoid crew tripping over a continuous line.
Derek

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Sea Trac
Master Marine Consultant

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Vanuatu
1357 Posts

Response Posted - 11/15/2004 : 23:16:08

Now that we've brought the topic up again...

Although Derek's configuration addresses beautifully one critical issue regarding the C25 traveler, it doesn't address my personal primary issue; sail shape and wind dumping.

Has anyone calculated the boom/mainsail angle of attack acheivable on the original traveler configuration vis-à-vis the companionway configuration vis-à-vis the cabin top configuration? The addressable angle of attack for each of these positions should be different. Additionally, the boom stress loading should be radically different.

A little engineering help, please!

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