Association Forum - have any of you capsized your C25's?

Assn Members Area · Join

Home.

Association Forum

Ships Store

Cruising

Racing

Technical Tips

Photo Gallery - New

Boat Search - Updated

Manuals & Brochures

Swap Meet

Links

Officer Flag Line & Staff

Bylaws & Constitution

Members Area

Join the Association

Notice:
The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.

Association Forum

Username:	Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

All Forums

Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

have any of you capsized your C25's?

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Author

Topic

77Gypsy
Captain

Member Avatar

USA
356 Posts

Initially Posted - 10/29/2004 : 00:27:51

if so:
what were the circumstance?
which keel model?
how long before she righted herself?

Steve
78 C25 SR/FK - Gypsy

Edited by - on

aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1709 Posts

Response Posted - 10/29/2004 : 07:48:41

I've come close in high-wind, gusty, racing situations but she always rounded up nicely. It's a scary experience and is always a wake-up call to reduce sail.

Al
GALLIVANT #5801

Edited by - on

lcharlot
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Antigua and Barbuda
1301 Posts

Response Posted - 10/29/2004 : 08:36:15

The most heel angle I have ever seen was a little past 45º, not enough to get water over the cockpit coaming. Once the heel angle exceeds 50º, the rudder is almost completely out of the water and the boat rounds up before it will heel any more. This is in steady-state conditions; in the event of a storm or squall hitting you with a sudden blast of strong wind, the boat could get knocked down before you could react and release the sheets or steer the boat into the wind. This would be especially a risk if you had a large headsail up. Since Gypsy is a fin keel, and not a swinger, if you ever had a knockdown, at least you wouldn't have to worry about overstressing the keel trunk and pivot joint. The thing to keep in mind is that the Catalina 25 is a "coastal cruiser", and isn't designed or built for rough, open ocean conditions. The biggest risk that a knockdown poses is that it would possibly tear the pop-top open, flooding the boat and sinking it before you could take any remedial action.

Edited by - on

Bill Holcomb
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
769 Posts

Response Posted - 10/29/2004 : 11:12:23

Hi Steve,

I had water coming over the portside coaming into the cockpit on a rough spinnaker broach one day in 25 knots of breeze. It was pretty exciting, but with the hatchboards in the companionway, I was not worried about sinking. As Al and Larry noted, the boat rounded into the wind and righted itself without assistance from me........And, I doused the chute.

Bill Holcomb - C25 Snickerdoodle #4839

Edited by - on

Buzz Maring
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1774 Posts

Response Posted - 10/29/2004 : 12:06:23

... the boat rounded into the wind and righted itself without assistance from me........And, I doused the chute. - Bill

Wow ... if that had happened to me, I would have had to change my shorts right after dousing the chute!

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

USA
5932 Posts

Response Posted - 10/29/2004 : 13:18:13

Once or twice each summer I lay my fin keel on her side until a little water pours over the gunwale into the cockpit. It almost always happens when the wind is gusting hard and the boat is overpowered, and usually when I'm not paying close attention. A couple of times it has gone over so far that the unsecured port cockpit locker lid fell open, but no water has ever entered the locker. More often than not, my boat doesn't round up. I think the reason is because my rig is adjusted to minimize weather helm, and my sailplan is usually fairly well balanced. When the rudder pulls clear of the water, the boat wallows on its side until I ease the sheets or the wind gust eases.

I don't think it is likely that you would turn a C25 turtle in the absence of fairly sizable waves, which never happen on small inland lakes. A possible exception is a tall rig swing keel boat with the keel raised. I could imagine it getting knocked down so quickly that it would put the mast tip in the water. If that happened, it's hard to say whether the boat would have enough leverage to right itself.

I agree with Bill that the boat probably wouldn't sink if the hatchboards were in place.

Edited by - on

Greg Jackson
1st Mate

Members Avatar

84 Posts

Response Posted - 10/29/2004 : 16:58:44

I've also broached and poured water in, but I think that is really a long way from a capsize.

I think a real capsize probably needs 60+ winds or getting hit broadside by a breaking wave where the wave height is nearly the beam of the boat.

I would like to point out an exception to some of the previous comments, suggesting you're safe as long as the the hatchboards are in place. Getting blown over on the port side and stuck there because your spinnaker fills with water, you can very quickly sink the boat if the port locker flips open. Recommended practice is to clasp all lockers, and install deadbolts to keep the hatchboards from flipping out when the boat gets knocked down. Under such nasty conditions I personally feel that Catalina made a big improvement when they went from 2 latches on the pop top to 4 latches. If you sail in conditions where these things are issues, you might consider a stronger method for keeping the pop-top from popping.

G. Jackson

Edited by - on

Bill Holcomb
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
769 Posts

Response Posted - 10/29/2004 : 17:32:33

Greg's right about filling the portside cockpit locker 'n sinking the boat. Two Capri 25's that I know of have sunk just this way here in the Pacific NW. One on the Columbia River near the confluence with the Snake River; and the other in Commencement Bay just out from Tacoma. In both cases, the boats were knocked down on their portside and the cockpit locker hatch fell open. Water poured into the locker and the boats both sank in about 5 minutes.

Granted a Capri 25 is a lot different from a Catalina 25. But both have big portside lockers.

I always have a short piece of 1/4" line knotted on both ends through the hasp.

Bill Holcomb - C25 Snickerdoodle #4839

Edited by - on

Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 10/29/2004 : 18:24:30

Re: keeping the cockpit lockers latched. On my last three boats I've used latching hasps like this one:

(Except in stainless steel or bronze. The one pictured is zinc and therefore junk.)

In rough conditions I keep them from opening accidently with a snap hook like the one on the left:

If you're the type to loose non-captive hardware, you could tie a short piece of light line from the loop of the hook to whatever is handy nearby.

Oh yeah, and another scary possibility for getting lots of water below in a knockdown is those clothes dryer vents on the early C-25s.

I removed mine, repaired the holes in the deck, and moved my stern cleats aft where they belonged in the first place.

-- Leon Sisson

Edited by - on

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3324 Posts

Response Posted - 10/29/2004 : 19:01:55

I use the same "dog-snap" as Leon on the port locker. Works perfectly and is easy to open quickly (like if you need the bucket in the "warehouse".
I've never had water in the cockpit of "TSU" - had the lee rail under a few times. If you quickly dump the mainsail she comes right back on her feet!
I did have the distinction of sinking a C22 SK...

Derek

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

3072 Posts

Response Posted - 10/29/2004 : 20:25:42

I use the snaps on the lockers too... I saw a V21 sink (rather quickly) during a knockdown when a locker lid came open. On 'nasty' days I also stuff a rag in the dumpster vents.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 10/29/2004 : 21:30:43

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Leon Sisson
 Oh yeah, and another scary possibility for getting lots of water below in a knockdown is those clothes dryer vents on the early C-25s.

I removed mine, repaired the holes in the deck, and moved my stern cleats aft where they belonged in the first place.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Leon: My understanding is that those vents are intended to vent gas fumes from that locker (which isn't an issue on later models)... What's your take on that?

Also, since I have a padlock for the port "dumpster", I just leave it in the hasp even if it's unlocked.

Edited by - on

Sea Trac
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Vanuatu
1357 Posts

Response Posted - 10/29/2004 : 22:13:02

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Dave Bristle
 Also, since I have a padlock for the port "dumpster", I just leave it in the hasp even if it's unlocked.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Ditto

Edited by - on

Lightnup
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1016 Posts

Response Posted - 10/29/2004 : 22:53:42

I slide one end of a long bungee cord into the port locker hasp and the other end into the starboard locker hasp. Because it's long, it lays on the cockpit floor so I don't trip over it.

Steve

Edited by - Lightnup on 10/29/2004 22:57:58

lcharlot
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Antigua and Barbuda
1301 Posts

Response Posted - 10/29/2004 : 23:39:42

This thread is starting to make me think that the dumpster hatch might be added to the list of Catalina 25 "fatal design features", along with "The Factory Curtain Burner" and "The Self-Destruct Gas Fume Detonator" (main switch panel on Mk. I's). We can call the dumpster hatch "The Factory Self-Foundering Device"

Edited by - on

Brooke Willson
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
983 Posts

Response Posted - 10/29/2004 : 23:46:33

I just wonder about the genesis of Steve's question. Have a bad day on the bay, Steve?

Brooke

Edited by - on

77Gypsy
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
356 Posts

Response Posted - 10/30/2004 : 00:04:37

no, haven't been out in a while actually. i wanted to know how much abuse a c25 could take because i'm planning a 2 week sail of the entire bay in the late spring. i have sunk 2 boats in the past though, they were both day-sailors so my paranoia made me post the question.

Edited by - on

Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 10/30/2004 : 00:58:03

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Leon: My understanding is that those vents are intended to vent gas fumes from that locker (which isn't an issue on later models)... What's your take on that?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Well, it was my experience that those original vents weren't particularly effective at elliminating gasoline fumes below deck in the first place. On my 1979 C-25, I subdivided the port locker and installed a 12-gal permanent fuel tank sealed in its own tight fitting vented enclosure. The new fuel compartment vents are 1" hose running to mini clamshell cowls inside the cockpit. The interior of the actual fuel tank is vented via marine industry standard 5/8" gas hose routed to a screened and shielded vent outside the coaming.

-- Leon Sisson

Edited by - on

Lightnup
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1016 Posts

Response Posted - 10/30/2004 : 09:13:54

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">i have sunk 2 boats in the past though...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">So recruiting crew is a little more difficult now?

That's got to be a horrible feeling to watch your boat sinking and not be able to do anything to stop it. May it never happen to your C25 (or anyone else's).

Steve

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 10/30/2004 : 12:41:15

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by 77Gypsy
 i wanted to know how much abuse a c25 could take because i'm planning a 2 week sail of the entire bay in the late spring. i have sunk 2 boats in the past though, they were both day-sailors so my paranoia made me post the question.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
A great thing about the Chesapeake is you can sail for weeks and never be someplace where you can't run and hide fairly quickly (and enjoy yourself while you're hiding). The C-25 can probably handle more of what Chessie has to deal out than you (or I) can. I've been in 35 steady (45+ gusts) with 4-5' short-period waves on Long Island Sound and ducked for cover because it was too much for me and the Admiral--Passage was probably having a great time!

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 10/30/2004 12:42:16

Brooke Willson
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
983 Posts

Response Posted - 10/30/2004 : 14:38:50

In the late spring you will probably have a wonderful trip. I've been sailing on the bay in my C25 for six years now. I've been nearly knocked down once, when I had too much sail up and a big gust hit. I buried the starboard rail, but then the boat came back up and I had to make profuse apologies to my wife who was below. As long as you stay in port when the winds are high (above 25 kts or so) and the seas big (I've crossed the bay in 5 footers with no problem, except it wasn't a lot of fun). As Dave says, you can always tuck into a creek if a squall kicks up.

I've had to modify my schedule -- stay in port an extra day because of weather -- or change destination because of the wind -- but have found the C25 is a great bay boat. This is not crossing the Atlantic, after all. Just do it.

Brooke

Edited by - on

ssteakley
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
467 Posts

Response Posted - 11/02/2004 : 23:48:30

Or you could move up to a C30...alll 10,600 pounds, We loved our C250 but no regrets moving up to the C30, a perfect boat for a couple interested in cruising or phrf racing
Steve Steakley
C30 ST/Fin #4455
"Hey You"

Edited by - on

ssteakley
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
467 Posts

Response Posted - 11/03/2004 : 00:01:20

Edited by - on

deastburn
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
334 Posts

Response Posted - 11/12/2004 : 23:39:28

I cannot speak for the swingers, but the finners should be reassured that the C25 is highly unlikely to go over only from the force of the wind. Going to windward even with a full headsail and mainsail in strong breezes (25-35 knots) can produce interesting angles of heel, but the boat inevitably reaches a point where it spills wind out of its sails and rounds up. Most boats that suffer knockdowns do so as the result of wave action, not wind. The exception to that, as Bill H rightly pointed out, is a spinnaker broach, which in even a moderate sea can be extremely dangerous. Even then, a true capsize seems unlikely without the help of large, cresting waves.

For myself, I am much more afraid of rig failure from being overcanvassed than I am of the boat going over. So I tend to be a conservative sailor who favors his comfort over drama. Which is, in any case, the only way I can get the First Mate to come on the boat.

Edited by - on

John Ace
Deckhand

Members Avatar

USA
24 Posts

Response Posted - 11/16/2004 : 09:36:52

Had water up to the cabin windows in a +30k storm while heaving-to, I'd forgot to release the main, as soon as I did the boat settled down.

Had my worst knock down in my C22 with NO SAIL UP! Got hit by a super-cell, +60. As luck would have it my motor was on the leeward side and by swinging it I was able to bring the bow to windward and right the boat. There were no waves (lake) so I was in no danger of capsizing, however, with out the motor, I would not have been able to right the boat until the wind died some, which it didn't for about 15 minutes, and could have been blown to a lee shore.

That incident gave me a lot of faith in my C22, and my C25 is even better.

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 11/16/2004 : 10:35:39

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Getting blown over on the port side and stuck there because your spinnaker fills with water, <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Which is exactly why I have a sailing knife in the pocket of my life jacket. We've used it some hairy circumstances too, none of which on the Catalina, but I still have it with me, especially when the kite is up.

Edited by - Champipple on 11/16/2004 10:39:53

Topic

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Jump To:

Association Forum

Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.