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C250 investigation

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Steve leBlanc
Deckhand

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USA
21 Posts

Initially Posted - 10/19/2003 : 00:36:51

I have just come back from the Long Beach Boat show and the comadore, wife, really liked the Catalina 25. In fact she liked it much better than our Mac M25. She even stated that she would feel safe going to Catalina in it. This is a BIG plus for me.

So here are the questions:
1) I do not have much confidence in the water ballast system, safety and handeling wise. How safe is this system and how well does the boat handle?
2) The model I was looking at was the wing keel version. The brochure states the wing keel is 3 feet, so I figure I would need 4 feet of water just to get it to float off the trailer. Does anyone out there have a wing keel model and do they ramp launch it? If so, how difficult is it?

Thank you all in advance
Steve L.

SL

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 10/19/2003 : 10:46:49

Hi Steve,
I am confused that so many people have read this thread and not responded. I first need to tell you that you are in the wrong forum. You should be asking this question in the 250 forum, that is what the new boats are called.

Next you will get my take on your question. The WB is a compromise to marketing pressures from other WB boats. The Wing is the better boat. You’re blessed by living in SOCO and you should get the 250 wing on a Trail Rite trailer, (They are made in SOCO). Do not allow a dealer to sell you any other trailer. Trail Rite has been making custom trailers for Catalina for over 25 years. The mast raising system on the 250 incorporates the Trail Rite trailer. With the trailer tongue extension there will be no issues about ramp launching, you will love the new boat. If you cannot ramp launch a wing with the extension then you are trying to launch at the wrong place.

You now need to read extensively in the 250 forum and remember all the posts about problems are from the few people who have problems, the vast majority of the people have no issues. There is on issue that seems real and that is relative to rudders. It is a non issue for the wing people so that is another reason to by the wing. We 25’ers with swing keels have issues that did not appear for years, any system with more moving parts will ultimately have more issues than the system with fewer moving parts. Remember the WB is a boat with a hole in the bottom. I hope you get the boat and join our organization. Of course we in the 25 forum feel you can find a wonderful boat like ours for 10K and under and would love to have you join our rank as well.

<img src="http://members.cox.net/fhopper/Catalina25/sigbow.jpg" border=0>Frank and Martha in Wichita KS. Lake Cheney

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 10/19/2003 : 11:54:03

Welcome, Steve!

Frank (& Martha) are right: First, post your question on the Catalina 250 Forum--many of the 250 owners may not be watching the posts on the C-25 (older model thru 1989) forum.

You'll find over there that Arlyn Stewart, for example, sails his water ballasted C-250 on passages across northern Lake Huron--easily as challenging as a cruise to Catalina. The C-250 WB has the advantage for launching, retrieving, and towing--not just because of draft, but because you leave some 1200# of ballast in the ocean, to be picked after you launch the next time. I've heard of few real problems with it (on their forum), and in some ways it has a nicer ride due to the fore-to-aft distribution of the ballast, which reduces pitching somewhat.

The Wing is apparently slightly stiffer, slightly simpler, slightly heavier to tow, has considerably more headroom below and a little more freeboard (windage). If trailer-sailing, the WB probably has the edge, and if you leave her in the water, the wing definitely is the choice. But the wing is definitely trailerable--I've seen it launched.

Either way, you've found the class of the newer 24-26-footers. You can learn a huge amount about it over on the C-250 forum. I followed this forum for about a year before we bought our C-25, and knew more about it than the seller did!

Dave Bristle - 1985 C-25 #5032 SR-FK-Dinette-Honda "Passage" in SW CT

Edited by - on

osmepneo
Past Commodore

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USA
1420 Posts

Response Posted - 10/19/2003 : 12:48:34

Steve,

I agree with what Frank and Dave have said. This forum is a tremendous asset and a wealth of information about our boats.

Basicallyt, if you have a question someone has been there, many have been there are are willing to share their experiences with you. That makes the c25/250 forum like family. I can't recommend the boats more strongly.

Don Peet
c25, 1665, osmepneo, sr/wk

<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3ce31b3127cce8f8c0cbf1bca0000001010 " border=0>
The Great Sacandaga Lake, NY
On the hard

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ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 10/19/2003 : 16:46:33

If you're used to a Mac 25 (really not that bad of a boat), you'll find that the C25 and C250 are built like a tank compared to it.

Couple the heavier construction with tons more room (Catalina 25's are actually comfortable to be aboard).

Downside... the 'conventional keel' Catalinas are twice the weight of your Mac and (IMHO) require a full-size 3/4 ton pickup to tow in safety. (though other folks have towed them with less).

When I set up and launched the C25 it only took about 10 minutes longer than my Venture 23... and that was due to re-hitching to the extended trailer tongue. ( that gives you the extra depth for launching.)

As far as water ballast... I've spent quite a bit of time on a WB Mac 26 'classic' and didn't have any concerns about it's stability at all. I'd feel comfortable taking one to Catalina Island.

If you don't want to spring for a new C250, there is a very active market in used C25's.

Be sure to check back with us if you 'get serious'

WOTAM - '77 Catalina 25 SK/SR Sail Number 158

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 10/19/2003 : 17:12:56

Generally, there are also a fair number of used C-250s available for well under the new prices. See yachtworld.com and boattraderonline.com. Be aware that some are mislabeled in the listings--the C-25 was built thru 1989 (maybe a couple in 1990), and the C-250 started up during the 90s. They're quite different boats.

Dave Bristle - 1985 C-25 #5032 SR-FK-Dinette-Honda "Passage" in SW CT

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 10/20/2003 : 14:44:08

Don't worry about taking your C250 (or C25) to Catalina Island in the summer. We've been twice this year, from Dana Point. I've sailed my C25 about 500 miles offshore (southern CA) this year alone. Nothing has broken in all those miles.

Join our National Association sanctioned Catalina Island cruise next summer!

The usual advice on the C250 : Water Ballast if trailering often, Wing if kept in a slip and trailered seldom.

<img src="http://www.indiscipline.org/cat25/pictures/icon.jpg" border=0>Indiscipline 1978 FK #398

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lcharlot
Master Marine Consultant

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Antigua and Barbuda
1301 Posts

Response Posted - 10/24/2003 : 10:50:08

We have a couple of Catalina 250 wing keel and three Catalina 25 wing keel in our sailing club and they all launch and retrieve regularly at the Folsom Lake launch ramp. The two parameters you need for an easy trailer launch of a wing keel boat are "depth" and "gradient". The ramp needs to be at least 12% gradient, 15% being preferable. And the depth at the end of the ramp needs to be at least 5 feet so that the rudder won't hit bottom, which will likely damage either it or the lower gudgeon. As for the C-250 wing vs water ballast issue, the wing keel boat has more righting moment and about 11" more headroom inside, is mechanically simpler, since there is no water valve and no retractable keel to malfunction. The only advantage to the water ballast is it weighs 1200# less on the trailer. You can tow a water ballast 250 with a basic 6-cylinder half-ton pickup, like a Ford F-150 or Chevy C-1500 (but not a mini-truck like a Ford Ranger or Toyota). The wing keel 250 pretty much requires a 3/4 ton truck with a V-8 or diesel engine and heavy duty drive shaft and rear axle. Remember, even if a smaller truck will pull a boat along a flat level highway, you need much more capability to haul that boat from a dead stop out of the water and up a 15% grade launch ramp. A new C-250 wing keel on a Trail-Rite trailer weighs about 5500#, compared to about 7800# for a Catalina 25 Mk. III or MK. IV wing keel (like mine). So, the 250 does weigh significantly less than the older Catalina 25, but the tradeoff is in creature comforts. The 250 is much more spartan inside. On the other hand, it is at least 10% faster than a C-25, especially in light air conditions, thanks to the lowered displacement which gives it less wetted area (less drag). Cost is another factor though; a new C-250 will cost you $37,000 with a trailer and 8hp motor, compared to $12000~$16000 for a Catalina 25 Mk. IV wing keel (assuming you can find one, it took me three years to find mine and I had to drive 6100 miles round trip to buy it and haul it home).
Back to the C-250 wing vs. water ballast issue - the bottom line I think is that you should only get the water ballast if you only have a light duty tow vehicle, or you find a water ballast boat for sale at an irresistable price, and you are willing to put up with a cabin interior that has only slightly more headroom than a Catalina 22. The 250 water ballast is really small inside, especially if you get a chance to compare a wing keel and a water ballast boat side by side.
Good luck boat shopping, and welcome to the Forum!

Edited by - on

Steve leBlanc
Deckhand

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USA
21 Posts

Response Posted - 10/25/2003 : 17:43:15

Y9ur all correct, I posted under the wrong one. What is more embarrasing, I've been looking under the C-250 for replies and have seen none. It was be accident I hit this site, but the information all of you have given me is very helpful. Thank you all

Edited by - on

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