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 Swing Keel toggle removal		  New Topic  Topic Locked
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Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts
Initially Posted - 10/26/2003 :  09:54:11  Show Profile  Visit Frank Hopper's Homepage
I got the keel toggle retro fit kit from CD. I cannot get the old eye out of the keel. It appears in perfect shape but will not turn by sticking a phillips screw driver through the eye and trying to unscrew it. Do I want more leverage or is this a sign to leave well enough alone?
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Bill Holcomb
Admiral

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USA
769 Posts
Response Posted - 10/26/2003 :  10:02:26  Show Profile
Hi Frank,

A PO may have put some sort of "lock-tight" or "liquid metal" on the threads to keep from having the toggle back out. You may need to heat the keel near the toggle with a propane torch to break the old toggle loose.

Bill Holcomb - C25 Snickerdoodle #4839
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Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts
Response Posted - 10/26/2003 :  10:06:00  Show Profile  Visit Frank Hopper's Homepage
Thank you, I take it I can rest asured that the keel is threaded and this is supposed to come out with only reasonable effort. How bad will the fumes from the bottom paint be if I put a torch to this.
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ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts
Response Posted - 10/26/2003 :  11:29:04  Show Profile
This is a scary part of the retrofit job... if the stud breaks off you're into a full keel pull and a drill and re-tap job. So take your time.

Here's what worked for me.

I was worried about this too and spent several days 'preparing' mine for extraction.

I applied some very GENTLE heat on the stainless with a propane torch, then shot some penetrating oil around the threads (like PB Blaster) and let it get drawn into the threads as the bolt cooled.

I'd wait several hours, and repeated this process over several days.

At that point I figured I'd done the best I could short of applying more SERIOUS heat to the keel... (as you've speculated, that might produce some unpleasant fumes... and my keel had been epoxy coated, which was another consideration)..

On my bolt, a 'home variety' screwdriver wasn't adequate to supply enough torque to get things started.

I used a millwrights' rolling bar that fit nicely in the fitting to break the bolt free. Don't try to unscrew the fitting in one long turn... loosen a half turn (or what feels resonable), then tighten it back in a little bit, this helps prevent debris in the threads from binding. Spritz with penetrating oil frequently. Repeat until you have it out.

Since the new fitting has a retaining 'pin' to keep it from backing out, I used plenty of never-seeze (graphite anti-siezing compound) when I put the new fitting in.

I also had to do a consideable amount of grinder and file work on the new fitting to make it sit properly in the old-style (1978) keel cutout.

Good luck and remember that patience goes a long ways on stuff like this.
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ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts
Response Posted - 10/26/2003 :  11:30:02  Show Profile
This is a scary part of the retrofit job... if the stud breaks off you're into a full keel pull and a drill and re-tap job. So take your time.

Here's what worked for me.

I was worried about this too and spent several days 'preparing' mine for extraction.

I applied some very GENTLE heat on the stainless with a propane torch, then shot some penetrating oil around the threads (like PB Blaster) and let it get drawn into the threads as the bolt cooled.

I'd wait several hours, and repeated this process over several days.

At that point I figured I'd done the best I could short of applying more SERIOUS heat to the keel... (as you've speculated, that might produce some unpleasant fumes... and my keel had been epoxy coated, which was another consideration)..

On my bolt, a 'home variety' screwdriver wasn't adequate to supply enough torque to get things started.

I used a millwrights' rolling bar that fit nicely in the fitting to break the bolt free. Don't try to unscrew the fitting in one long turn... loosen a half turn (or what feels resonable), then tighten it back in a little bit, this helps prevent debris in the threads from binding. Spritz with penetrating oil frequently. Repeat until you have it out.

Since the new fitting has a retaining 'pin' to keep it from backing out, I used plenty of never-seeze (graphite anti-siezing compound) when I put the new fitting in.

I also had to do a consideable amount of grinder and file work on the new fitting to make it sit properly in the old-style (1978) keel cutout.

Good luck and remember that patience goes a long ways on stuff like this.
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Steve Kostanich
1st Mate

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88 Posts
Response Posted - 10/26/2003 :  13:40:48  Show Profile
Fhopper,
Like Clambeach said, the new fitting doesn't fit the cut-out in the early keels, (my boat is '79 model) so rather than cut on the keel to make it fit, I milled a small section out of the fitting to make it clear. I have my own milling machine, but a local machine shop could easily do it. It's about a 20 minute job. You could do it yourself with a hand drill,hacksaw and file, but stainless if tough to work with hand tools. Also, the ears on the fitting need to be closest to the keel's bottom end, or they will touch the hull when the keel is up, and could punch the hull on a keel-up grounding.

Steve kostanich C-25 Equinox 1119 sk/sr
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rclift
Navigator

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USA
152 Posts
Response Posted - 10/26/2003 :  16:16:09  Show Profile
Since the main purpose of replacing it is because it might rotate and fall out and it obviously isn't doing that in its present condition I would consider doing nothing. That was the very advice that was given me by the local boat yard when they tried to take it out. Basically, They said it wasn't in bad shape and obviously wasn't going to move without breaking so leave it alone. Sure beats an expensive repair if you break the cast iron.

Ray Clift
Buzz 1361
Oregon
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ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts
Response Posted - 10/26/2003 :  16:51:00  Show Profile
"Since the main purpose of replacing it is because it might rotate and fall out"

You must also consider other modes of failure like work hardening, crevice corrosion, and stress fractures. I agonised over this job a bit myself. But simce my fitting was visibly 'egged out'... I just gritted my teeth and did it.

Next time I do it, I may "do it right"... drill thru the keel, use a stainless U-bolt (like a clevis) and build my own eye on the cable end using swage-lock fittings... perhaps go up a size on the cable too, but I don't think cable size is really the problem.
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svmoxie
Past Commodore

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USA
331 Posts
Response Posted - 10/27/2003 :  11:07:15  Show Profile  Visit svmoxie's Homepage
Frank,

I used a drift pin on mine with a steel pipe extension for more leverage. Slow constant pressure did the job without heat or penetrating oil. However Bruces approach is certainly the right one.

Good Luck
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Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts
Response Posted - 10/27/2003 :  13:23:05  Show Profile  Visit Frank Hopper's Homepage
Thank you everyone, I will go buy the large allen today and proceed with caution. However it does all look like new, so I may chicken out and put the retro fit kit away for the fall haul when things don't look this good.
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Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.