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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Swing keel pin

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steephen
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100 Posts

Initially Posted - 11/04/2003 : 14:42:14

Okay, after much talk, a new winch and some thought, I'm getting ready to re-bore the keel and install a new pin kit on my 1980 C-25 swinger. I've read in these pages about lowering the keel via the jacks and threaded rod method. Has anyone actually bored the hole on site? Made a jig for doing so? Any special advice?
Also, the new winch clicks while raising, but is friction released while lowering, rather than cam released; are people confident with that? Finally, has anyone drilled out and installed for a fatter keel pin than the standard 3/8" original?
Thanks to all.

Stephen Z on "Little Wing"

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Ben
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1234 Posts

Response Posted - 11/04/2003 : 15:02:31

The keel winch on my swinger clicked when being cranked up, but didn't on the way down. I don't know if confidence is the word I would use since I didn't have any experience with that kind of winch. The "ignorance is bliss" side of me just hoped it was magical boat dust that kept the winch from flying out of control.

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ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 11/04/2003 : 21:26:30

"Also, the new winch clicks while raising, but is friction released while lowering..."

This is by design. The pawl only engages when turning in the "up" direction... as you turn the winch handle to lower the keel, the friction brake releases slightly, letting the drum 'unwind'. As soon as the drum starts to unwind, it tends to tighten the brake.

Hence, as you lower the keel, the brake sort of 'chases' you as you turn the handle. When you stop turning the handle, it instantly "catches up" and stops the drum.

What 3/8 inch keel pin? Are you refering to the bolt holding the keel cable fitting to the keel... or the pin in that fitting that goes through the rolled clevis on the end of the cable?

The keel pin on my early (#158) C-25 is very firmly fixed in the keel and the pin pivots in the bronze hinges. (PO may have had a hand in this setup)

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GeorgeB
1st Mate

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90 Posts

Response Posted - 11/05/2003 : 08:41:27

Steephen

I made a similar repair to Abegweit. We dropped the Keel and drilled out the hole oversize. Instead of using a larger pin(not sure where you would get one), I had a bronze bushing set in the hole, and used the origional pin.

I had the yard do the job, and had a macnine shop do the boring and installation of the bushing. Turned out to be expensive. Next time I'd shop around to find a better price. I wouldn't want to tackle the job with common power tools

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steephen
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100 Posts

Response Posted - 11/05/2003 : 20:35:05

Clam & George:

Thanks for the info. I heard there was a replacement cable pin set-up from Catalina Direct which was a bit heavier than the original. When I bought my boat she'd been lowered onto the cable swage, and the cable had been sheared off; I worry that the eyebolt in the keel was damaged at that time. If I'm going to install a new one, I was thinking of upping the thickness.
I heard CD also ships a replacement pivot pin and bushing, once you bore out the hole. Trying to figure out if I can do that job myself.... First I need to lower the carriage that holds the pivot pin. I've heard it's usually the hole that wears oblong, not the pin itself. Anybody looked at this?

Thanks,

Little Wing

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ClamBeach
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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 11/05/2003 : 22:14:03

First, get your hands on the the Catalina Direct Owners Guide... that will answer many of your questions.

I don't know what the swaged eye could have jammed against inside the keel trunk to break it off.

This is the usual point of failure when corrosion sets into the fitting, it typically breaks right at the end of the swage... and the result is usually the keel falling into the down position.

This often damages the forward part of the keel trunk. The cable can also break at the swage if the keel fitting has turned and won't allow the swage to rotate into alignment with the winch opening as the keel is raised. The new style fitting is designed to eliminate this problem.

I'd inspect your keel pivot area and keel trunk very carefully.

The keel pivot can be lowered gracefully by using (4) pieces of 3/8" NC all-thread of an appropriate length. You unscrew one hinge retaining bolt at a time and replace it by screwing the all-thread into the hull fitting. You then place a nut on the all thread and turn it up to hold the hinge in place.

After all 4 pieces of all thread are in place, you can (slowly) lower the front of the keel by unscrewing the nuts in unison.

I believe there is a full write-up on this in the 'techincal' section that can be accessed from the home page of this site.

You'll find that the main keel pin is much bigger than 3/8" !

Edited by - on

tojohnso
Deckhand

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11 Posts

Response Posted - 11/07/2003 : 13:21:41

Stephen,

I did it myself in place. If you have some mechanical apptitude, experience, and the correct tools you could do it as well. I used a magnetic base drill to drill a new oversized hole in the keel. Final hole size was 1-5/16. The mag base drill worked great, the area next to the hole is perpendicular to the hole so it was easy to get things lined up. My advice would be to step up in size in small increments and use caution cast iron is not very nice to drill. I then epoxied a stainless steel busing in the hole. It is now bettter than new!

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Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 11/07/2003 : 16:09:31

Stephen,

I installed a pivot bushing in my 1979 swing keel several years ago using methods similar to those described by tojohnso and GeorgeB. I installed a 1.50" O.D. bronze bushing using WEST epoxy reinforced with powdered metal as I recall. The machine shop part is non-trivial -- be sure to get firm estimates from shops that understand what they're getting into. I'm pleasantly surprised to hear that someone had success with the mag drill approach. Yes, cast iron is scary to drill -- it sounds crunchy.

Damage to the swaged keel cable end can occur if a C-25 runs hard aground with the keel almost fully retracted. The slack cable can pivot away from the "to-hull" pipe where the turning ball is, and get bound up in the top of the aft end of the swing keel trunk when the keel is forced all the way up. This would also put large loads from unintended directions on the keel lifting eye-bolt, and could damage the keel trunk too.

The stock pivot pin is 1.00" in diameter. The four pivot bearing mounting bolt holes in the hull are 3/8-NC lined with stainless steel. The tapped hole in the keel for the lifting cable attachment is 1/2-NC. The newer cable attachment fitting assembly is a much better design than the old one piece eye-bolt.

-- Leon Sisson

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steephen
Navigator

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100 Posts

Response Posted - 11/07/2003 : 18:45:02

Thanks for all the help, folks. I'm going to lower her on the threaded rods and see what shape the keel pin is in. When the boat was hanging from the slings during launch, I could move the down-posision keel several inches in the port-starboard plane.
Where might one look for a magnetic drill base? I have two brothers who are machinists, so a new bushing and/or a new fat pin shouldn't be hard to come by.

Stephen Z.

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Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 11/07/2003 : 21:00:13

Stephen,

Re: "<i>Where might one look for a magnetic drill base? I have two brothers who are machinists, ...</i>"

Ask your machinist brothers if they know where you can rent a big mag drill for a day (and help you use it). It's not the sort of thing most people would consider a wise investment for the home hobby shop. Plan on buying your own drill bits though, unless those same brothers can lend you some to tear up. They can also guide you in selecting intermediate drill sizes. It might not be as straight forward as going up in the smallest available steps. There's a formula as I recall.

-- Leon Sisson

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 11/07/2003 : 21:16:41

Simple drill speed chart (posted elsewhere tonight too)
http://www.winsloweng.com/articles/drillChart_content.htm

Portable magnetic base drill presses are pretty expensive...
a local fabrication or machine shop might have one they are
willing to rent.

Edited by - on

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