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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Long VS Extra Long

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FrankM
Deckhand

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USA
7 Posts

Initially Posted - 11/05/2003 : 21:24:04

I've been restoring my boat for 4 years. The only thing holding me up is a motor. I really want a Honda 9.9 extra long, but a 9.9 long has
become available to me for $1100.00 , which is affordable to me at this time Q: Should I hold out for the extra long shaft at a cost of 2000 more or buy this motor and go sailing now? FM

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 11/05/2003 : 21:38:44

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by FrankM
 I've been restoring my boat for 4 years. The only thing holding me up is a motor. I really want a Honda 9.9 extra long, but a 9.9 long has
become available to me for $1100.00 , which is affordable to me at this time Q: Should I hold out for the extra long shaft at a cost of 2000 more or buy this motor and go sailing now? FM
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
It seems to be a question of motor mount geometry. If you can get a long deep enough then it will work. Do you use a transom cut out or an external mount that can be relocated? I remember hearing about Peterson 1/4 tonners but I cannot picture one. If an external mount is what you use then the Garelick 70191 and the Garhauer are the two with the longest throw. The 70191 has a 15 1/4 " vertical throw but I am unsure How much of that is below the horizontal.

Edited by - Frank Hopper on 11/05/2003 21:43:46

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 11/05/2003 : 21:41:35

My Honda 8 long shaft works great and only cavitates when I am at (or forward of) the mast except once in a while in a steep wake or something. $1100 is a great price. I'd go for it. You can always sell it for what you paid.

PS. I have an after market Garhauer motor mount with two down positions and gets the anti-cavitation plate about 4" under water on the lower setting with nothing in the cockpit (when I am sitting there it is deeper). See if you can determine how deep the motor will be. 4 to 5 inches is about a minimum.

Edited by - JimB517 on 11/05/2003 21:44:07

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 11/05/2003 : 21:50:22

Hmmm... A Doug Peterson quarter-ton, huh? The basic issues are how deep your prop will be and how much pitching you expect while you're using it. You can take some measurements, hoping for at least 4" from water level to the anticavitation plate (meaning the top of the mount is 18" or less above the waterline. If it's higher, and the motor doesn't work out, you should be able to sell it for about what you paid, and then go for the XLS.

(If I'd written this faster, it wouldn't have been a duplication of everything above!

)

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 11/05/2003 21:56:51

atgep
Master Marine Consultant

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1009 Posts

Response Posted - 11/05/2003 : 21:55:57

Either go for the Long shaft, or settle for a sailmaster. You should be able to locate one for about that price. I could not see coughing up 2-3k for a motor when that is all some people spent on their boats. I would love a nice 4 stroke but my sailmaster gets me there and back. The shorter shaft would only be an issue in rough weather if the mount was low enough to start with. If it is too low you dunk the eng. if it is too high you cavitate. If the weather is that bad you should have some wind to go along with it.
The only other condition is if you had to run an inlet to go sailing. They usually are motored but can get nasty, even on nice days. Then safety might justify the added expense. my .02 $ worth

Edited by - on

FrankM
Deckhand

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USA
7 Posts

Response Posted - 11/05/2003 : 23:28:15

Thanks For the responces, Since I've never had the boat in the water,
I think I'll spend a lot of time just learning to sail it, the long shaft will do fine, When I'm ready for a circomnavigation, I'll get a longer motor, maybe! FM

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 11/06/2003 : 06:21:10

Sounds good, Frank... BTW, if you do spring for the "big iron", the new (since '02) Honda 8 is the SAME ENGINE as the 9.9 for several boat units less. All that's missing is a few hundred RPMs at the top end--the part of the throttle you'll never use. In the Power Thrust configuration (larger, lower pitch prop), the 8 has roughly the equivalent thrust of a standard 15.

Edited by - on

Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1916 Posts

Response Posted - 11/06/2003 : 15:30:34

Having had three different motor mounts on my boat, the Standard issue Garhauer, and both of the Garhauer models, 71090, and 71091, I think I can comment on them (but intelligently?)
If I had a long shaft older motor which wasn't too heavy, I would go with the Garhauer. The reason is where the lift travel is. The Garhauer goes down several inches further. The 71090 definitely doesnt go down past horizontal, and the 71091 goes just a few inches below horizontal. So in other words, the amount of travel is meaningless compared to where the travel is.
I settled on the 71091 because I bought a Honda 8 extra long shaft, which is 108 lbs. The 71091 has the best lifting balance for this motor. The 71090's springs are so strong that you have to push the 108 lb motor down. It's a pain. If you had a lighter motor, you would have to stand on it. The 71091 has the same springs, but the arms are longer, so you have greater lever arm distance (for you engineering types, or physics students)
The 71091 is a really heavy duty mount which should take lots of abuse. I may even trailer my boat without taking the motor off. Of course I filed out the mounting holes and used 3/8" carriage boats instead of the facory 5/16" bolts (six of them) with starboard backing inside and outside of the transom. One of my winter projects is to reinforce themotor mounting board to the aluminum frame with larger, and more bolts.
By the way, the Honda tech rep told me that the 8 also has a different cam than the 10, so it delivers higher torque at low speed, which is what you want on a slow moving sailboat. I haven't checked out the part numbers in my factory manual, someday I'll do this. Someday I'll figure out my digital camera and how to post pics.
That is my frank opinion

Edited by - on

Charlie Vick
Captain

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USA
423 Posts

Response Posted - 11/06/2003 : 16:12:48

"That is my frank opinion"
Frank Gloss
89WK/TR

This is getting bad.
I hope its a really short winter!

CVick
PanaceaII '81 C25 #2439 SRSK
Fort Smith, AR

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 11/06/2003 : 16:51:52

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Charlie Vick
[br...I hope its a really short winter!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Winter hasn't even started yet...

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ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 11/06/2003 : 21:15:04

"... Winter hasn't even started yet..."

Yeah, but we sail all year round here... (ducks and runs for cover)

Edited by - on

LeighMarie
Navigator

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USA
188 Posts

Response Posted - 11/07/2003 : 08:32:22

I had a new 2002 Honda 9.9 4 stroke that was a long shaft. It absolutely was not long enough despite what the salesman told me, even after putting on 2 different mounts in 2 different spots. I sold it and got a new 2003 extra long shaft. It works great! I lost some money on the deal, but I now have a motor that stays in the water, is as dependable as the day is long, and I no longer worry about it.

Piece of mind is worth a lot! You can fool yourself into thinking the long shaft is long enough, but it's not when you need it in waves.

Edited by - on

Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1916 Posts

Response Posted - 11/07/2003 : 09:35:47

I'll second what Dave and sharon said,
My 2003 8hp extra long shaft electric start Honda is great. Theonly time it failed was entirely my fault by letting condensation collect in my fuel tank. It is heavy though

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 11/07/2003 : 10:09:02

The Honda 8 "Classic" model has been re-introduced... it had a 23.5" shaft as I recall. The 'low' position on my Garhauer mount puts the prop way down in the water.

Excellent motor and lighter than the 'new' generation Honda. Haven't priced one lately, but I paid $1300 or so for mine in the mid-90's.

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