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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 250 Specific Forum

Decisions,Decisions

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kenn
Deckhand

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3 Posts

Initially Posted - 11/10/2003 : 11:15:40

This looks like the place to get some honest, straight feedback, so here goes. My wife & I own an 89 Mac 26D (daggerboard).We bought it about a year ago and it was our first boat.This last summer we rented a Cat 250wk in San Diego and took it out a couple of times, we really liked the way it handled. We are now looking to move up to a better class of boat and here is the dilema. We are looking for a late model 2002 or so, or a new boat. We are narrowling it down to either a Cat 250 or Hunter 260. We would probably be looking for a water ballast. We live in Tucson and have to trailer it to get to either the lakes, or down to the sea of cortez ( haven't made that trip yet).We like the extra head room on the Hunter, but it also costs a few thousand more. I am not sure of the quality of the boat vs the Cat 250., and that is the dilema. Can anybody provide some feedback on the comparisons of the two models, and also the handling capabilities of the 250 wk vs wb.

Edited by - on

Oscar
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2030 Posts

Response Posted - 11/10/2003 : 11:56:13

Do you have a day or two? Welcome to the forum, you have come to what is easily the most active forum I have ever been on. Lots of questions get answered here, and we have fun in the process.

I recommend you lock yourself up with a pot of tea and read everything there is here....Now I know that is a bit impractical, so I'll get the ball rolling, as I know many others will chime in.

1: I don't know of anyone that regrets getting their 250, WK (wing keel)or WB (water ballast). There are lots of little irritating things that go wrong with cheap mass produced boats, but there are to my knowledge no major structural problems with the boat, and between the members of this forum we have DIY fixes for just about everything.

2: I don't know many people here that will have something nice to say about a Hu..Hu...Hun....I can't even type the word. (or Ma...Ma Ma you know what for that matter) Maybe it's a Chevy-Ford thing, but all we remember is the horror stories of things going really wrong with those boats. Plus, while the 250 is no Hereshoff design, IMHO the Hunters are outright ugly.

Finally, they are either smaller, or the 26 which is over 8'6" wide and requires permits to trailer which is a royal rectal discomfort. (Don't let a sales man talk you into "getting away" with illegaly trailering an oversize load....)

3:That brings me to the next point. Trailering. The 250 WB is hands down the most road friendly 25 footer out there. One person can rig, launch and retrieve the boat with all the standard equipment. Later boats came with the mast raising system on the trailer, it is the preferred method. Also, a trailer extension is a must. There are ways to empty the ballast tank right before retrieval to raise the boat four or so inches, and loose the weight. It makes it easier. As far as a towing vehicle, leave yourself a comfort zone, and get something that will pull 7000# or so. Then the 5000+ of the WB+trailer+motor+stuff will be well within the envelope. I use a 1/2 ton Suburban, I wouldn't want to do it with much less. The longer the wheel base, the more stable the rig.

4: WK vs WB.....they boath sail well, very well. They have the motion of a bigger boat and they are fast in light air and comfortable. The WK has more head room, but doesn't trailer as easily. Those of us that sail in bigger waters with bigger winds find the current rudder lacking on the WB. It works, but it could work better. The WK rudder is larger and works better, but when mounted on the WB has to be hung after launch. Other solutions are being worked on, meanwhile we're all sailing happily.

Again, read what is here and ask questions. There are numerous people like me with nothing to do but blab about their boat.....

Oscar
250WB#618 Lady Kay on the Chesapeake

Edited by - Oscar on 11/10/2003 12:04:56

Dkn420
Captain

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USA
298 Posts

Response Posted - 11/10/2003 : 12:21:29

Kenn: I would agree with Oscar's observations and advice. I have a new (2 months) C250wk, but I keep it in the water and don't plan to trailer at this point in time, but I did purchase the boat with the trailer. My boat was purchased at Lake Tahoe and it towed very well down the hill and to Lake Oroville in Northern California with a Chevy Silverado 1/2 ton 4wd with the trailer towing package.

This is the first boat I have purchased or owner and it can be a frustrating experience at time as Oscar describes. After my research and talking to boat owners I liken the Catalina to a Toyota and the Hunter to a "Datsun"

(Not trying to start a car controversy)...but the Catalina seemed to be the stronger of the two, just something you can feel when you are onboard.

I would certainly read very deliberately the "Warranty" for each boat and have the dealer explain to you in detail what it means and how it would be applied in the event of any problems, and even ask him to put those things in writing.

Don't let them tell you the boat must be paid for prior to delivery...you should have the right to inspect the boat before you make the final payment to the dealer or else you loose any leverage you have if the boat is flawed.

Make sure everything you order for the boat is in working condition upon delivery, such as instrumentation. Make sure there are no flaws or damage from the transportation to the dealer. Make sure everything is with the boat, mine was delivered without sails. Even things that were wrapped at the factory for shipping, like the rudder, were flawed upon examination. I found a bad spot on my rudder, after it was installed by the dealer, that he apparently missed.

Make sure they raise the mast and instruct you in how to do that task, and the little things to look out for when doing so. Make sure that the part to rest the mast on when trailering come with the boat. Mine didn't, I found it on the delivery list and from a comment made by Oscar on the Forum and requested that the dealer get one from the factory and send it to me, but as yet they haven't responded to my request.

Reading the past Forum and current discussions is a great learning tool...and factor into the price all the things you have to do that they don't tell you about...like bottom paint and such things which you will discover as you go along.

You can't beat the feeling of sailing with family and friends and the C250 is great for doing that...it is a great experience and you get to meet a lot of great and helpful folks in the process...

Dan #727

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 11/10/2003 : 12:25:06

There are several design issues with the hunters that make a lot of us nervous. The lack of a backstay and the use of the strutted diamond rig is a bizzare thing for Hunter to have done. They seem to have wanted to create a mast raising method that simply got too strange for most of us to live with. The rudders are intersting and may work fine but seem to be rigged from a salvage yard. The 260 has another interesting issue that is shared with the 250. How do you get on these things? The 250 provides a step cut into the hull side of the coaming area, it is small but functional. The 260 provides a step out on the swim platform. The people who have one that I am familiar with have to step out the transom swim ladder opening onto the step and swing around the side of the boat to get to the dock. (And there is no backstay to hold onto while doinng this maneuver). The freeboard is just too high to get on the boat with out boarding steps. Mostly I think we are all repulsed by hte lack of naval hardware on the boats. Stanchions don't look like stanchions, fitting don't look likre they should, the whole thing just comes across like it is a 3-5 year lifespan boat. 250's are strange boats to be around also. They have some angles at the dock where they are just as ugly as the Hunters, but under sail they are beautiful boats, (and on a trailer they are beautiful). I think its is the extreme freeboard off both boats that look odd at the dock and when underway the slightest heel makes them look right again. Even the Hunters look ok under sail until you get close and start wondering if the rig is going to come down.
Get a 250 WK

Edited by - on

cathluk
Admiral

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USA
513 Posts

Response Posted - 11/10/2003 : 15:56:34

You mentioned you were looking for a 2002. We bought a 2 year old C250WK so we haven't had the experience with the dealers, but if buying used be sure to get a survey (even for a 2 year old boat) and have the previous owner show you how to rig & operate everything. Get the manuals for everything. We had the previous owner help us deliver our "new" boat to our marina. It was a good chance to find out how everything worked before being on our own.

One note on the WB vs. WK - the WB has considerably less headroom. I've never sailed a WB so I can't speak to the handling.

Happy boat hunting.

Edited by - on

DogBoy
Deckhand

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6 Posts

Response Posted - 11/10/2003 : 17:10:11

Another issue to consider is the beam. I believe the Hunter 260 beam is > 8.5 ft., meaning you have to get a permit to trailer it in some states.

Edited by - on

Oscar
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2030 Posts

Response Posted - 11/10/2003 : 18:15:32

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">meaning you have to get a permit to trailer it in some states.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Only Hawaii is 9'. Actually there are a surprising number of states, ten in all, that restrict boat trailers to 8'. I don't think the 8' states would fall over six inches, but exceeding 9' would really be pushing it. To learn more go here:

http://www.boatus.com/trailerclub/laws.asp

Oscar
250WB#618 Lady Kay on the Chesapeake

Edited by - Oscar on 11/10/2003 18:30:56

frog0911
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1349 Posts

Response Posted - 11/10/2003 : 21:45:15

Actually the beam on the Hunter 260 is listed as 8'11.5". That means the trailer has got to be well over 9'.

Edited by - on

Oscar
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2030 Posts

Response Posted - 11/10/2003 : 21:55:15

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">That means the trailer has got to be well over 9'.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Standing behind Lady Kay the trailer looks to be just a few inches narrower than the boat. The rubrails being the widest part of the boat, and the fenders being the widest on the trailer.

Oscar
250WB#618 Lady Kay on the Chesapeake:

Edited by - Oscar on 11/11/2003 08:53:14

Ray Seitz
Captain

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USA
416 Posts

Response Posted - 11/11/2003 : 07:12:20

In addition to the usual states I tow in I tow in KY and MI which are both 8' states and they have never given me a problem. I do not obtain Wide Load permit the fines, for the first offense, are generally less than one might pay for say 15 MPH over the speed limit

.

I have checked into a wide load permit (for possible larger boat) in a few states close to me. The permits are not what I would consider expensive or difficult to get up to about 12'wide. The reason I say about is because, this is where wide load permits are a pain, the states vary a lot on the widths, time of day, route and on and on.

All in all I think 8.5' is a nice width.

Sorry Kenn got off the original subject. Bottom line there are a lot of choices and compromises you have to make. You will have to decide which choices best suit your needs, keel vs. CB-WB, trailer vs wet slip, new tow vehicle vs. current tow veh. etc. Most of us on this website own or owned Catalinas so we are biased. One thing I do not think you will find with some of the other makers you have mentioned is a support group like this forum.

Edited by - Ray Seitz on 11/11/2003 07:25:08

bill bosworth
Navigator

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USA
172 Posts

Response Posted - 11/13/2003 : 20:35:18

I would like to make a point on the overwidth issue. I was stopped while pulling a trailer that was 8'6" which at the time was 6" overwidth. I was issued a sitation

. I did a little research and in NYS the fine was a manditaory $500. I was able to plebargan down to a moving offence of some kind and saved a pile of money. Needless to say, I cut the axels down by 6 inches. I had pulled the trailer a number of times with no problem, but one day found an officer with a tape measure. It does happen.
Bill
c250wb, Serendipity

Edited by - on

azexploder
1st Mate

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USA
78 Posts

Response Posted - 11/14/2003 : 00:42:34

If you would like to try a ride in a WB, I am sailing in the AYC races 11/22-23 and 12/6-7. I could always use some help.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 11/14/2003 : 12:04:11

I was looking at both boats (C-250 and H-260) a few years ago at an indoor boat show. The Catalina dealer walked me over to the Hunter display and had me push on the side of the hull of a 260. It popped in and out ("oil-canned") with relatively little effort. I tried that on the C-250--solid as a rock.

Another story I've told here... A member of our boat club was backing his H-240 out of his slip, caught a shroud on a piling (at under 0.1 knot), and snapped the mast in half--at which point the whole thing came down in a heap of broken metal and tangled rigging. I helped him detatch and organize things, and was amazed by the light-duty mast extrusion--it struck me as being like a Coors can. I don't know whether a backstay would have prevented the break--the struts certainly didn't--but I seriously doubt our C-25 would've lost the mast in that situation. (It might have broken a spreader.)

Hunter has some interesting ideas on their boats, but, IMHO, for a solid, well-rigged boat with timeless style, lasting value, and support from the manufacturer and the owners' association, you can't beat Catalina. Headroom versus trailerability... Every boat is a compromise. You can trailer a 250WK, but the WB is the obvious choice for highway hauling and ramp launching/retrieving.

Good luck in your quest!

Edited by - on

Steve leBlanc
Deckhand

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USA
21 Posts

Response Posted - 11/14/2003 : 15:27:34

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by kenn
 My wife & I own an 89 Mac 26D (daggerboard).<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

You to. I have an 86 M25. Last month, or so, my wife and I were at the boat show in Long Beach. She climb aboard a 250WK, while it was on the trailer and all she said to me was "I like this boat better than ours" I have to agree with her. I liked the turnbuckels over the adjusters on the stay's and shrouds that the Mac's come with stock. The stays and shrouds looked of better quality, thicker, along with the spreaders. The interior seemed much brighted and larger along with the cockpit size. Not to mention the over look (lines) of the boat which I like much better that the newer Macs.

I am sure, and from what I have read so far, that this boat, and along with others, have there share of issues, but heck, that's a boat, a hobby and something to take out and play with.

That's just my opnion.

I almost have my wife talked into a used 270, heck I may end up with a 310, if I can also swing one of those new Lexus, 2 door hard top convertable model for her. OK the 310 is out for now. But the 270 is up to bat and the 250 is a slam dunk for us. I was told that I have to pay off the second first. I've got a year.

Edited by - on

Bryan Beamer
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1038 Posts

Response Posted - 11/14/2003 : 21:26:38

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I almost have my wife talked into a used 270,<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I wouldn't give up my C250wk for the C270 ever. The v-berth is smaller and the berth in the stern is smaller. All you get with a C270 is an inboard engine that is next to impossible to work on and a little more room in the main salon. IMHO either go with the C250wk or go right to the C310..

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 11/14/2003 : 22:37:44

Steve: Bryan raises an interesting issue regarding the 250 vs. the 270: outboard vs. inboard. For heavy-duty cruising in a 28-footer or larger, you have no choice. But we chose the C-25 in no small part because we could drive it with an outboard that lifts out of the water, is easy to service, reasonable to replace (which we did after our first year), and doesn't involve systems that go through the hull (cooling and shaft) and that are inside the cabin (with attendant odors). The main case against the outboard, even on a 25-footer, is that it can be lifted out of the water by severe pitching, causing cavitation and momentary losses of power. However, our extra-long Honda, on a bracket that puts it deep into the water, hardly ever cavitates, even crossing the wakes of some of the humungous yachts that plow through our area. And if we pick up a lobster pot warp on the prop, I can lift the motor, unwind the warp, and continue on our way.

So, inboard vs. outboard--it's a serious consideration and certainly a matter of your purposes for the boat and your personal taste.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 11/14/2003 22:42:35

Steve leBlanc
Deckhand

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USA
21 Posts

Response Posted - 11/15/2003 : 11:03:22

[quote]Originally posted by Dave Bristle
 Steve: Bryan raises an interesting issue regarding the 250 vs. the 270: outboard vs. inboard. [quote]

I was just talking with my wife on this subject today, this morning in fact. First the 310 is out due to cost.

Oh well

Her take was, she feels that the 250WK on a trailer would be the best choice for us.

When I need to work on the boat, and we all know how much fun it is to tinker with our toys, I can have it at the house where all my tools are; There are several marina's within 40 miles us where we can tow the boat and launch it. This of course would mean getting a 2500 or F250 series P/U, even though my F150 will tow the boat with the tow kit, it is a little too close to the weight limit of 7600 pounds, so hills and major stopping would be a bit of a stress on the truck.

The size of the C250WK seems perfect for both of us and from what I have been reading on inboard desiel vs. outboard, it seems that the outboard is much easier to perform maintanance on. So we are now back to the C250WK on a trailer.

I have noticed that the Catalina series, 250, 270, 310, or those that have a '0' at the end of their lenght, seem to have a better cabin layout, which was the one main selling factor that my wife liked.

This is going to be a rough, long, waiting year

Edited by - on

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