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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Ironic...but not really funny!

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nate
Navigator

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240 Posts

Initially Posted - 11/10/2003 : 11:27:55

Just a few days ago, I posted a question about sailslugs and what I should do if they ever break. This was prompted by a few other posts discussing plastic sail slugs that were breaking in heavier conditions.
Well yesterday I found myself in the same situation...we were racing in our club's annual Gold Cup in really fun conditions that had the wind blowing around 20 with a few gusts to keep us on our toes. It was the last race of the afternoon and I was heading downwind to the C mark with a Hunter 23 right beside me. We rounded the mark and as I started trimming the main I noticed it had a bit more "shape" than normal. Six slugs had gone at the mark and left me with nothing to do except pull the main down and head for home. BUMMER!!

So I've decided no more plastic crappy slugs...my main is new and I don't feel like I need sacrificial slugs to keep it from blowing out if the wind pipes up. I'm going with SS slug bales and I'm going to shackle them on (no more webbing) so I can change out a broken one in between races if this happens again. So, this brings me to a question...which size sail shackles do I order? WM has 5/8, 3/4, 7/8 and 1". The slugs are 3/8" correct? Thanks for the help!

Nate Adams
C25 #5695 WK/SR
"Heeling Properties"
Lake Mead, NV

Nate Adams
C25 #5695 WK/SR/Trad
"Heeling Properties"

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 11/10/2003 : 12:23:25

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">The slugs are 3/8" correct?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

My old slugs were 3/8", but my new main has 1/2". The 1/2" slugs required enlarging the mast slot a little bit to allow the larger slug into the mast slot.

Edited by - on

Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 11/10/2003 : 12:36:12

C-25s seem to come with 3/8" slugs. I switched to 1/2" slugs w/SS bails & shackles, no problem. (The mast luff groove is at least 1/2".) There are also extra supper heavy duty 1/2"x2" slugs available ($2 ea. from SailRite I think). I use those at head, reef tacks, clew. My mast gates are a little tight on 1/2" slugs, but that's just an installation issue.

-- Leon Sisson

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 11/10/2003 : 12:53:34

FYI...

Two 1/2" SS/Nylon sail slugs from West Marine - $7.99

Two 1/2" SS/Nylon sail slugs from SailNet - $4.16

Two 3/4" SS sail shackles from West Marine - $7.49

Two 3/4" SS sail shackles from Sailnet - $2.50
(3/4" Plastic shackle insert - .10 ea)

Edited by - on

nate
Navigator

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240 Posts

Response Posted - 11/10/2003 : 13:06:31

Thanks Don,
I saw the different shackle sizes in the WM bible...just not sure which length to buy for my mainsail. 7/8" seems like it should be long enough. Just wanted to get the info today so I can give the guys at WM a call and have the stuff on the truck this week. (Our local WM store generally doesn't have this kind of stuff in stock so I have to wait until Thursday for their weekly delivery.)
I think I will try the 1/2" slugs as well....thanks guys!!

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 11/10/2003 : 14:14:04

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I saw the different shackle sizes in the WM bible...just not sure which length to buy for my mainsail. 7/8" seems like it should be long enough.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Nate,

The shackle size probably depends on the distance from the sail grommets(the side closest to the luff) and the edge of the luff, allowing a little for the SS bale on the slug.

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 11/10/2003 : 15:44:41

My original C25 main actually has 7/16" slugs (measured with a micrometer)... They seem to be an uncommon size these days.

I think either 3/8" or 1/2" slugs should work just as well (with the aforementioned mast gate enlargement).

Don't forget to get the "protectors" (little plastic shields) if you're going to install stainless shackles. (I think my original main takes 3/4" stainless shackles)

Be sure to check www.sailrite.com for pricing.
They specialize in this stuff.

Edited by - on

Lee Panza
Captain

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USA
468 Posts

Response Posted - 11/12/2003 : 02:33:58

Just a word of caution on the sail slugs with the stainless steel bails; the exposed metal in the grooves of the slugs will be in contact with the edges of the mast slot, and will wear those edges over time, making them rough. This will be especially true when you raise the main with any lateral wind pressure on it.

I've been renovating an older boat (not a Catalina) that was donated to our local Sea Scouts, and raising the main was an ordeal, due to the rough edges of the mast slot, until I changed-out the slugs for the all nylon ones. Now I'll have to replace the nylon ones from time to time as they wear out on the roughened mast slot edges, but at least I can get the main up reasonably easily.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 11/12/2003 : 08:48:12

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Lee Panza
 Just a word of caution on the sail slugs with the stainless steel bails; the exposed metal in the grooves of the slugs will be in contact with the edges of the mast slot, and will wear those edges over time, making them rough. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Thanks for the reality check. I often raise my sails with the wind over my starboard bow quarter. It is a function of our prevailing winds and the path in and out of the club.

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 11/12/2003 : 09:08:57

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Just a word of caution on the sail slugs with the stainless steel bails; the exposed metal in the grooves of the slugs will be in contact with the edges of the mast slot, and will wear those edges over time, making them rough.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

You can find SS slugs that have nylon in the area of the mast kerf if you are concerned about wear. Although this picture from SailNet shows this nylon, when you order these slugs from them you get the regular style.

Edited by - on

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3323 Posts

Response Posted - 11/12/2003 : 11:55:03

Frank - I come out of our marina on the O/B (we are not allowed to sail in the marina) and just turn head-to-wind to put up the main (with full battens it won't hoist anyway unless head-to-wind).
Derek

Edited by - on

nate
Navigator

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240 Posts

Response Posted - 11/12/2003 : 13:38:40

The sail slugs I ordered from Sailrite do have the "rockers" decribed by Don. Thanks guys!

Edited by - on

Brooke Willson
Admiral

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USA
983 Posts

Response Posted - 11/12/2003 : 14:00:46

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I often raise my sails with the wind over my starboard bow quarter. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Frank, that's an unusual boat you have there. In nautical parlance, the quarter is between the stern and the beam (180 to 90 degrees). I think what you meant was with the wind on the starboard bow . . . between the bow and the beam -- about 45 degrees or so.

At any rate, it will be less effort and wear and tear if you put the nose into the wind when you raise the sails.

Brooke

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 11/12/2003 : 17:59:33

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Brooke Willson
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I often raise my sails with the wind over my starboard bow quarter. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Frank, that's an unusual boat you have there. In nautical parlance, the quarter is between the stern and the beam (180 to 90 degrees). I think what you meant was with the wind on the starboard bow . . . between the bow and the beam -- about 45 degrees or so.

At any rate, it will be less effort and wear and tear if you put the nose into the wind when you raise the sails.

Brooke
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Thanks I fretted over that and thought I still didn't have it quite right. I prefer to raise my sail with my boom over the port quarter just ot get the comotion out of the boat. Maybe I need to get used to the very high boom in the std rig and break old habits.

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roomatthemark
Deckhand

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USA
3 Posts

Response Posted - 11/13/2003 : 08:59:58

I got a new sail two years ago from Quantum. I eliminated the slugs altogehter and went with bolt rope only. The sail goes up and down as smooth as silk. Instead of flaking, I roll the sail on top of the boom.

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 11/13/2003 : 09:23:46

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I got a new sail two years ago from Quantum. I eliminated the slugs altogether and went with bolt rope only. The sail goes up and down as smooth as silk. Instead of flaking, I roll the sail on top of the boom.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Steve,

How does this work when singlehanding or in bad weather?

I assume that since you no longer have slugs that, essentially, you are feeding the boltrope into the slot when hoisting the main every time and removing the main when dousing. Since I'm an all weather sailor, at times dousing the main is quite the adventure, but with the slugs holding my main to the mast, its not so bad. How much is the degree of difficulty increased when dousing the main with the bolt-rope since the luff is no longer attached to the mast, especially when the wind is howling?

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 11/13/2003 : 10:18:07

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dlucier
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I got a new sail two years ago from Quantum. I eliminated the slugs altogether and went with bolt rope only. The sail goes up and down as smooth as silk. Instead of flaking, I roll the sail on top of the boom.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Steve,

How does this work when singlehanding or in bad weather?

I assume that since you no longer have slugs that, essentially, you are feeding the boltrope into the slot when hoisting the main every time and removing the main when dousing. Since I'm an all weather sailor, at times dousing the main is quite the adventure, but with the slugs holding my main to the mast, its not so bad. How much is the degree of difficulty increased when dousing the main with the bolt-rope since the luff is no longer attached to the mast, especially when the wind is howling?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

My 16ft daysailor was a boltrope main. A boltrope main has beautiful shape. When you drop it you leave a foot or so in the kerf and tie off the halyard. You can then roll it from the middle and your head is pre-fed for the next hoist. Most sails will drop down the companionway if you open the hatch, but in really bad weather it would be at a disadvantage. Everything is a comnpromise!

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 11/17/2003 : 12:52:19

While perusing the C25 Owner's Manual I discovered that the mast slot varies depending on the rig, standard or tall. The standard rig mast has a 3/4" round mast slot, while the tall rig slot is 3/4" wide by 1/2" deep.

This may mean something for the guys with tall rigs because using a 1/2" sail slug in a 1/2" mast slot might not allow enough wiggle room, especially if a little crud creeps into the slot. It may just be better to use a 5/16" ( or even 3/8") slug to add a little clearance in the slot making hoisting and dousing the main a little easier.

Click on this link to take you to the picture in the C25 Owner's Manual.

[url="http://www.catalina25-250.org/manbro/pictures/4-1-4.gif"]Mast and Boom [/url]

Edited by - on

deastburn
Captain

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USA
334 Posts

Response Posted - 11/19/2003 : 13:42:22

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I got a new sail two years ago from Quantum. I eliminated the slugs altogehter and went with bolt rope only. The sail goes up and down as smooth as silk. Instead of flaking, I roll the sail on top of the boom.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

How do you reef? It seems to me that slugs slide down quickly onto the boom, flaking the sail easily, esp. with lazy jacks, which permits single-line reefing led back to the cockpit, a real advantage for us single-handers (dual line for two reefs). I can't really visualize how you would rig reefing for a bolt rope main and lead the reefing lines back to the cockpit.

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