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CD bow roller w/ bruce anchor?

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Sunshine Daydream
1st Mate

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57 Posts

Initially Posted - 11/25/2003 : 22:54:00

Has anyone used a Bruce anchor with the Catalina Direct stem fitting/ bow roller upgrade? How do you like it?

Scott & Kelly Larson
"Sunshine Daydream"
'80 C25 SR / SK

Edited by - on

Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 11/26/2003 : 00:42:48

Scott & Kelly,

Re: "Has anyone used a Bruce anchor with the Catalina Direct stem fitting/ bow roller upgrade?"

Sort of. If that's the same stem fitting w/bow roller upgrade that the Catalina factory sells, I installed one a couple of years ago. I use the roller with a 22# Horizon Claw, which is a clone of the 10Kg Bruce anchor.

Re: "How do you like it?"

I like it a lot! My other bow anchor is a 20# Danforth Hi-Tensile, about the same weight as the Claw. The Claw has a longer and thicker chain, yet is easier to handle than the Danforth because of the bow roller.

As an aside, the Danforth hangs from the pulpit on latching mounts. The Claw has a hole drilled in the shank to accept the captive latch pin on the bow roller assembly. I fabricated an adjustable fore-aft partition for the stock anchor locker. This allows me to flake two approx. 300' rodes in there without tangling.

-- Leon Sisson

Edited by - on

rclift
Navigator

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USA
152 Posts

Response Posted - 11/26/2003 : 01:23:07

Leon,
How did you deal with the chain and rode for your anchor? I have a 16lb bruce knockoff that I used in the San Juans. To keep it mounted on the roller I feel like I need to cut a notch in the anchor locker hatch or devise a way to quickly latch the chain to the anchor before I need it. It bothers me to have an anchor sitting on the roller that isn't totally ready to go I kept the whole works in a 5 gallon bucket in the cabin this summer and it was a total nuisance to get around. the danforth anchor I use on the river sits nicely in its locker and is much easier to deal with.
Ray Clift
Buzz 1361

Edited by - rclift on 11/26/2003 01:42:29

Randall
Navigator

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123 Posts

Response Posted - 11/26/2003 : 09:01:50

I bought the CD stem fitting/bowroller upgrade, plus an AR-6 bowroller so that I can hang two anchors off "Kite's" bow. I was figuring on carrying two ultralight Fortress anchors to keep the bow light & lively, but would love to have a claw or plow, plus a Fortress up front. Would the additional weight of a Bruce make any difference performance-wise, or would it actually help counterbalance the weight of a 100 lb 4 stroke engine on the stern? No heavy items are stowed forward. We use a porta-potti, and water & batteries are under the starboard settee (engine mounted on port-side).

I sail on lakes with rock or silt bottoms, and danforth-style anchors have always worked, but would the claw/Fortress combo be a safer bet in heavy weather?

Like Ray's boat, mine doesn't have a notch in the anchor locker hatch for the rode to feed through. I was planning on keeping one anchor rigged & ready with the rode fed into the locker, and the second anchor stowed on the bow, with it's rode stored in a bag in the cockpit locker. I like your solution, Leon! Did you modify the locker hatch in any way, or do you pay both lines out through the same notch?

Randall

Edited by - on

Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 11/26/2003 : 09:56:58

rclift & Randall,

Re: "How did you deal with the chain and rode for your anchor? ... need to cut a notch in the anchor locker hatch ... Did you modify the locker hatch in any way ..."

Yes, I cut a notch. It's about 1" fore-aft, maybe 2" side-side. The notch is located in the middle of the front edge of the anchor locker hatch, and overlaps the rim of the opening. In other words, I cut two notches in the same spot, but only the top notch is visible with the lid closed. I hope that's clear enough.

I should probably also mention here that I increased the size of my anchor locker drain tube to 1/2" SCH40 PVC. I also glassed the anchor locker pan to the hull and made water tight back shells for my whale eye nav. lights. The point of all that work is to prevent water in the anchor locker from leaking into the rest of the boat. I've since taken waves over the bow without my V-berth cushions getting soaked.

Re: "... do you pay both lines out through the same notch?"

Yes, two lines, one wide notch. As I mentioned, there's an adjustable, removable, fore&aft divider in the anchor locker that keeps the two rodes separated.

Re: "I sail on lakes with rock or silt bottoms, and danforth-style anchors have always worked, but would the claw/Fortress combo be a safer bet in heavy weather?"

You are correct that those two types of anchor have different optimum applications, but it's not about storm vs. lunch hook. The Danforth, as you've experienced, is at its best in mud and soft sand. The plow style anchors, including the Bruce and Claw, are better than the Danforth in bottoms that are rocky, gravel, hard sand, weeds, etc. Pound for pound, the Danforth probably holds better in randomly chosen anchorages. For this reason, I have a longer and heavier chain on my Claw to improve holding power and to better resist chafe on rocks. Another big advantage of the Bruce/Claw is that it sets very quickly, and resets very reliably after a wind or current shift.

Re: "keep the bow light & lively, but would love to have a claw or plow, plus a Fortress up front. Would the additional weight of a Bruce make any difference performance-wise, or would it actually help counterbalance the weight of a 100 lb 4 stroke engine on the stern?"

Weight in the ends hurts performance. If I were going to get into serious handicap or one design racing, I'd look into having a light weight "race motor", and just a small Fortress with 5' of light chain and maybe 100' of 3/8" line in the bow locker (in other words, as little as the rule book would allow). My interest in the C-25 runs more toward day sailing, weekending, and coastal cruising. If I want to go racing, I can get rides on faster boats I'd never be able to afford to own.

-- Leon Sisson

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 11/26/2003 : 10:27:06

"I sail on lakes with rock or silt bottoms, and danforth-style anchors have always worked, but would the claw/Fortress combo be a safer bet in heavy weather? "

The main weakness of a Danforth type anchor is that they don't reset very well in the event of a current, wind or tide shift. If you are going to anchor out where you might have those sort of shifts, I'd opt for a Bruce (claw), a CQR (plow) or a Delta. All those designs have good holding and excellent 'reset' capabilities. Best of the three for any situation depends on bottom composition.

Most (ocean) cruisers I've seen lately (wandering about the marina) have both a Bruce and a CQR. The Danforths are typically used for 'picnic', stern, or kedging anchors where you'll be pulling from one direction or closely attending the boat.

I have a 15 lb danforth style for my 'quick deploy' anchor.. and carry a 22 lb bruce clone stowed with it's own rode at the back of the aft quarterberth (now used for storage). The 'oversized' bruce is my 'get a good nights sleep without worrying about the anchor holding' anchor.

I was told that the danforth anchor was developed in WWII to be deployed from the stern of landing craft as they went up on the beach... A winch in the stern of the LC's were then used to kedge them off the shore after deploying their cargo. Danforths are cheap to make, with good 'one direction' holding power.

Edited by - on

Sunshine Daydream
1st Mate

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57 Posts

Response Posted - 11/26/2003 : 13:30:16

I think I will get the stem upgrade and a 16.5# Horizon claw before heading to the San Juans next summer.

Is there any reason to spend the $$$ for the Bruce?

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 11/26/2003 : 15:37:29

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Sunshine Daydream
 I think I will get the stem upgrade
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I recently put the CD stem upgrade on and it was a two person job. Read the threads on this site and be ready for the rub rail. I notched mine to get the bolt out and it went well. I needed a dremel to clean up the slot between the rub rail and the hull. My son was on deck and he drilled holes with my direction as I stood on the trailer tongue. ERROR! When we got all done it was very crooked. My fault. Take it slow measure twice. (I have developed a convincing story about the roller leading more fairley from the bow cleat at the odd angle it is at.

)

Edited by - on

svmoxie
Past Commodore

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USA
331 Posts

Response Posted - 11/26/2003 : 17:20:48

Here is my primary, a 16.5 lb Simpson-Lawrence Claw the deploys from a roller which is mounted on a custom 1/2 thick aluminum plate. I plan to add a chain stopper this winter. This summer I used a shackle to attach the chain to the bow rail where the lifeline is normally attached to secure it while under way. It worked fine, I just want something a little cleaner.

I also have thought about remaking the aluminum plate in order to have two rollers, one a little further forward than the other with a delta anchor in the second roller. If I do that I will also run a 4" plastic pipe from the anchor locker down the front of the V-berth and make a chain locker under the V-berth. There would be too much weight up high and forward with two rodes crammed in the deck locker.

I have 30 feet of chain backed up with 200 feet of 3-strand nylon. That pretty much fills the space.

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 11/26/2003 : 20:37:10

"Is there any reason to spend the $$$ for the Bruce?"

IMHO follows:

For a boat the size of a C25 I can't see spending the big bucks for a 'name' anchor.

I don't think a light displacement vessel like a C25 can generate enough force to break or bend one of these puppies. The 22 lb 'Bruce knockoff' I purchased is a pretty substantial hunk of steel. I suspect that the anchor rode (or the deck hardware) will part company long before the anchor itself would break or bend.

I debated between the 16lb and the 22lb models... and opted for the larger. It is a pretty er... shall we say, 'impressive' anchor and I may wish I had the lighter one after I haul this one up out of deep water a couple dozen times. On the other hand if I get stuck in an anchorage with 30 kt winds, I may be darn glad I purchased 'the big one'.

For a heavy cruising vessel with an all-chain rode, I would for sure pony up the bucks for the "real deal" when it comes to ALL the ground tackle.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 11/26/2003 : 20:46:41

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by svmoxie
 I also have thought about remaking the aluminum plate in order to have two rollers, one a little further forward than the other with a delta anchor in the second roller. If I do that I will also run a 4" plastic pipe from the anchor locker down the front of the V-berth and make a chain locker under the V-berth. There would be too much weight up high and forward with two rodes crammed in the deck locker.

I have 30 feet of chain backed up with 200 feet of 3-strand nylon. That pretty much fills the space.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Maybe you should consider the CD bowstem with roller. Yours is like mine was and they really are inadequate. The new ones add the tang down the front. (I wish my rub rail looked as good as yours does.)

Edited by - on

Sunshine Daydream
1st Mate

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57 Posts

Response Posted - 11/29/2003 : 18:42:49

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by fhopper@mac.com
be ready for the rub rail. I notched mine to get the bolt out and it went well.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Frank,
Did you notch the track for the rub rail? and how did you deal with the rubber rub rail itself? Did you cut it and pull it out of the track and then notch the track and take out the bolt?

Scott

Edited by - on

deastburn
Captain

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USA
334 Posts

Response Posted - 11/29/2003 : 18:43:23

For what it's worth, Scott, the single best upgrade I made to "Wood Duck" was the addition of a Windline bow roller and a Simpson-Lawrence Delta 14lb anchor. The rode is 25' of 5/8" chain and then 200' of three-strand nylon, 1/2". The bitter end of the nylon is spliced around a plastic thimble, and that is attached to a padeye located in the chain locker (I single hand, and it is embarrassing to back up right off the end of your rode!) I also have a short legth of 1/8" line through the padeye attached to a carabiner, which I use to snap onto a link of the chain when the anchor is fully up. It secures the anchor on the bow roller in less than a second, and makes it easy for me to raise and secure the anchor, run back to the cockpit, backwind the jib, and be on my way.

Having a good anchor on a roller ready to deploy makes gunkholing and seeking anchorages in foreign ports--especially when the anchorages are crowded--a maneuver you'll look forward to rather than one you probably--like many sailors--dread.

Edited by - on

Sunshine Daydream
1st Mate

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57 Posts

Response Posted - 11/29/2003 : 19:18:31

Thanks Dave,
I ordered the CD stem fitting/bow roller a couple of days ago with some birthday money and plan to get a 16.5 lb. claw anchor the next time we travel to Portland.
I do like the idea of attaching the bitter end of the rode and the retainer line you spoke of.

Edited by - on

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