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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

General Sailing Forum

topping lift

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sdaly66
Navigator

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USA
143 Posts

Initially Posted - 12/03/2003 : 13:31:29

My 250 has no topping lift. Has anyone installed one who could provide some guidance and/or advise. I'm thinking about a home-grown implementation - preferrably without a halyard.

This site is a GREAT resource full of VERY helpful folks.

250 WB 1996 Hull #205

Thank you all.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 12/03/2003 : 14:01:42

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by sdaly66
 My 250 has no topping lift. Has anyone installed one who could provide some guidance and/or advise. I'm thinking about a home-grown implementation - preferrably without a halyard.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I have a 1/8" line with an eye splice that is held with the same clevis that holds the backstay at the mast head. It goes to a swivel block on my boom end. It then makes up on a jam/horn cleat a foot from the end of the boom. Very simple and functional. You can of course go with the solid vang approach, since you do not have a pop-top it would work well. garhauer have really cheap ones.

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sdaly66
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USA
143 Posts

Response Posted - 12/03/2003 : 14:23:37

Thanks for the reply. I assume then that it runs through a block at or near the top of the mast and down as a controllable halyard? Or is it fixed at or near the top of the mast in some way?

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Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 12/03/2003 : 15:09:15

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by sdaly66
 Thanks for the reply. I assume then that it runs through a block at or near the top of the mast and down as a controllable halyard? Or is it fixed at or near the top of the mast in some way?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
No. The eye splice is simply held by the clevis. That makes the entire line the length of the leech plus a couple of feet to make the turn at the swivel block and lead to the cleat. You adjust it by releasing it off the cleat and either hauling it in a foot or what ever (to raise the boom in light air) and re-cleating it, or letting it out some, (to clear the leech while sailing). Cheap, and leaves the mast out of the equation other than the pin at the mast head. Please note the difference between a boom crutch and topping lift. The topping lift is adjustable and intended to provide sail shape in light air. The boom crutch is not adjustable and intended to support the boom when the sail is not raised.
You can no doubt install the halyard type but I do not see the need. I am buying a longer topping lift line this winter and running on forward along the boom and then down and back to the cockpit. So this type can even be led back if you like.

Edited by - on

frankr
Captain

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256 Posts

Response Posted - 12/03/2003 : 16:16:18

My 2003 c250K has the tooping lift attached to the top of the mast(no halyard), down to the boom end, around a pulley, inside the boom a couple of feet, then out to a clam cleat.

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Carl B.
1st Mate

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USA
83 Posts

Response Posted - 12/03/2003 : 19:02:19

You could also consider a Boom Kicker in conjunction with your vang.
I believe Catalina Direct sells them. Give them a call 1-800-959-7245

Edited by - on

RichardG
Admiral

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USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 12/03/2003 : 22:23:01

A basic topping lift setup, with one end of a line attached to the top of the mast and the other end attached to the end of the boom, never needs adjustment, doesn't get in the way of the poptop, is a lot less expensive than a boomkicker and works well for cruising (i.e. when the iron genny usually gets cranked up in light winds) -- KISS.

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Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2984 Posts

Response Posted - 12/03/2003 : 22:25:10

Prior to adding the topping lift, decide how reefing will be handled. If sail handling will be handled from on the coach roof, then the topping lift adjustment should be there as well. If sail mainsail control will be handled with lines led aft, then the topping lift should be also.

The C250 unlike the C25, has provisions for an internal to the boom run for the topping lift so a choice exist to go internal or external. If internal is the choice, there are sheaves both aft and forward on the boom. Later hull numbers have the line run but early hull numbers didn't.

If sail control is to be done from on the coach roof, then the boom should be modified by adding a slot and a cleat on the starboard side to match the outhaul on the port side. A fixed piece of 3/16 line is led down from the mast truck to a point about 18 inches above the aft end of boom. On this bend a small block From the bail on the end of the boom, secure a 1/4 " line and run up through the sheave of the block and returning to the aft end of the boom through the smaller sheave and forward thru the mast around the forward sheave and back through the boom to exit the starboard side and into the small clam cleat.

If the lift is desired at a clutch... then simply lead it down from the forward end of the boom and route accordingly.

Edited by - Arlyn Stewart on 12/03/2003 23:34:53

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3324 Posts

Response Posted - 12/04/2003 : 00:19:40

I'm with Richard on this one (altho' the topping lift occasionally does need adjustment). I don't understand what reefing has to do with adjusting the topping lift. You keep trucking to weather, ease the main halyard to a predetermined mark, haul like heck on the reefing line and retension the halyard - that's a bout as KISS as you can get!
Shouldn't take more than 30 seconds max.
Derek

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2984 Posts

Response Posted - 12/04/2003 : 09:27:13

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I don't understand what reefing has to do with adjusting the topping lift.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Ahhh.... its beginning to make sense now. For years I've heard the laments of those who don't like to set reefs from on the coach roof and never understood what the big deal is. Without setting the topping lift, I wouldn't like it either.

Loosening the mainsheet to a predetermined point and setting the topping lift locks the boom up and secure from swing, which goes a long way to providing a good steady handhold on the top of the boom (loose footed main) and keeps the boom from swinging wildly and pushing one over the rail.

This may be another difference between the C25 and C250. On the C25, the likely approach for sail management would be forward on the side deck and then to the mast at the shrouds. On the c250 the approach is over the coach roof. If the boom is swinging wildly, one can get thwacked in the process. So the mainsheet is eased to a point allowing clearance forward without being pushed over the rail, after mounting the coach roof the topping lift is set which locks the boom in place while the reef is set. After its set, the topping lift is released and the boom once again is held in adequate check for returning to cockpit.

Edited by - on

Oscar
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2030 Posts

Response Posted - 12/04/2003 : 11:40:59

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I don't understand what reefing has to do with adjusting the topping lift.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">haul like heck on the reefing line<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I don't like hauling like heck on anything.....topping lift takes the load off the bottom of the sail to allow effortless, neat reefing without undue stress on lines/sheaves and cringles. Easy does it.

Back to the original question. I added a block to the SS pin that holds the back stay at the aft end of the mast top. Then I ran a 3/8" line to the aft end of the boom, with a snap shackle. The required length, leading it aft to the cockpit from the mast foot, is approximately 60 feet. There is a Canadian fellow that regularly sells 100 foot lines with a snapshackle spliced on e-bay. I got mine for around $45.-, which is much less than the separate parts. The extra 40 feet will come in handy somewhere. Start here:

http://listings.ebaymotors.com/pool1/plistings/list/all/category31281/index.html?from=R0

I don't see any on there right now...keep an eye on it, or drop me an e-mail and I'll dig up who it was when I get home.

Oscar, in SFO making BU's

Edited by - Oscar on 12/04/2003 11:49:13

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3324 Posts

Response Posted - 12/04/2003 : 11:51:59

Arlyn - your explanation is excellent - however, I think it's a fine example of why lines should be led back to the cockpit. On TSU we don't have to go forward for anything (except to lower the jib - that luff tape just doesn't slide

)
If we were cruising we probably wouldn't "haul like heck" on anything either. But, when racing, every second (and part of every second**) is vital - even tho' we are still driving to weather with the halyard eased we do lose some power, we want the max back soonest!
Derek
P.S. ** I lost our biggest regatta in 2002 by .04 of a second on corrected time...

Edited by - on

osmepneo
Past Commodore

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USA
1420 Posts

Response Posted - 12/04/2003 : 13:00:44

I added a topping lift this past year, and it is very simple, like the discribed by Frank. I tied a bowline to the clevis pin on the top of the mast, and ran the line (1/8 inch) around a bolock on the outside end of the boom. Thenran the line forward to a cleat on the boom, very sinple and it works.

I also have a boom kicker. It holds up the boom and sail. It does not hold up me when I start to loose my balance, and my one hand for me is using the boom for support. So I use both the topping lift, primarily to to prevent the boom from dropping when my weight is placed on the boom.

I suspect the forum could design and discuss lots of different ways to rig a topping lift, but if simple is what you want, then this way works.

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2984 Posts

Response Posted - 12/04/2003 : 13:44:00

Derek, I know that you use a whisker pole with that hanked headsail.

I could just as easily argue that your only reducing sail management by having many of the lines led aft, and if a reduction is all that can be obtained, then why not stay more proficient and confident by doing all management from on top and keeping things simple by saving all the hassle of lines led aft.

I won't argue that point however because the percentage of time doing management from the safety of the cockpit may be equally or more worthfull as the greater proficiency had by doing it all from on the coachroof.

At any rate, what works for one, may not fit the needs of another.

I have to remind myself very often that I am a trailer sailor participating on a web forum where likely 98% are not.

Maybe I should explain why a trailer sailor. I sailed a Hobie for ten years before getting a C22, it bought because my then family couldn't stand tent camping. Turns out they couldn't stand the C22 either and should have been honest with me...they just didn't like the out of doors period. So, I continued to sail the Hobie locally, a lot more fun than a mono hull. I bought the C250 because the C30 I'd been cruising on was being sold. I continued to sail the Hobie locally and trailered the C250 to the Great Lakes for cruising, all though my son took the Hobie off to Austin a couple of years ago. My aging body is appreciating the Hobie less.

My situation then was... that I funded my Great Lakes summer cruises from the money saved by not having a slip and bottom painting expenses when I preferred to sail the Hobie locally. It is a choice of course that limits my amount of local sailing (especially after Eric took the Hobie off) in trade for 2-4 weeks of great cruising.

Edited by - on

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3324 Posts

Response Posted - 12/04/2003 : 15:16:48

Arlyn - I'd trailer sail too - if I had a trailer! 'Twould save many BU's a year...
I have all my lines lead to the cockpit because I don't want the crew fighting a heeling deck while trying to do a task (like reefing). In very high winds we don't even use the whisker pole (the jibs have luff tape, BTW, not hanks). In nasty weather I want the crew safe in the cockpit - and our weather can get very nasty very quickly.
I guess it all comes back to "chacun a son gout"!
Derek

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