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Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3324 Posts

Response Posted - 12/07/2003 : 13:44:00

A small warning for those who grab the mainsheet purchase and "throw it over". I broke my upper arm doing this in 20 knots...(the bone is called the humerus - but I didn't find it particularly funny

)Now I make sure that I use the hand that, when swinging over the boom, has to move across my body - that way the arm cannot be forcibly externally rotated by hanging up in the purchase.
Derek

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 12/07/2003 : 16:04:44

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Derek Crawford
 A small warning for those who grab the mainsheet purchase and "throw it over"...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I learned the danger of "throwing across" jibing our Daysailer--it can mess up an elbow or, as Derek found, do much worse. I wouldn't throw across except in very, very light air. On a bigger boat, I'd virtually never do it. I sheet in tight (not going directly downwind), turn through the wind (probably past my intended course), and then ease out while returning to my course. A tight vang will help the sail flip earlier.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 12/07/2003 : 19:17:21

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Now I make sure that I use the hand that, when swinging over the boom, has to move across my body - that way the arm cannot be forcibly externally rotated by hanging up in the purchase.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Ouch!...Good tip.

Edited by - on

osmepneo
Past Commodore

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USA
1420 Posts

Response Posted - 12/07/2003 : 19:55:03

Steve asks, "What's wrong with tacking through 270 degrees?" And replies, Absolutely nothing. I agree! He then gives some situations where it maybe better to Gibe than tack through 270 degrees, I'll add one more, when you are racing on a down wind leg.

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deastburn
Captain

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USA
334 Posts

Response Posted - 12/07/2003 : 20:16:29

I am struck once again by how different things are for lake sailors than for coastal sailors. All of the advice on wing and wing is excellent and to the point. But if you are heading downwind with a roiling quartering sea a boat as light as a C25 becomes a handful no matter how you rig it, preventer or no preventer. Successive broad reaches will probably get you there faster.

I use wing on wing a lot in lighter air, and single-handed always rig a preventer (I just switch the boom vang to a stanchion, which has reinforced backing plates). Yes, I sail a bit by the lee, which is why I rig a preventer in the first place. I don't share others' concerns about broaching, especially in light air. In heavier air there's always a seaway, and that pretty much precludes wing-on-wing anyway.

In order of ability to induce fear: the accidental gybe in heavy air, the accidental broach in heavy air, getting back onto the mooring and discovering all the martini ice melted.

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wmeinert@kconline.com
Past Commodore

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USA
353 Posts

Response Posted - 12/08/2003 : 09:28:26

During all this discussion, little emphasis is place on effective use of your crew possitions. When I race, I always try and have four crew including myself. Two on the bow and two aft. Crew coordination is the only true safe way to race wing and wing down wind!!!

When I use my velcro preventor, it is correct as someone caught on to that given excessive weight on the main it will break loose and act as a safety valve. But I always have some one on the down wind side of the boat close to the preventer to "prevent" being blown away. It doesn't matter if your on a lake or ocean, crew coordination is mandatory. If I was in strong quartering seas trying to down wind with only one other crew, safety would dictate that a broad reach is safer and probaly faster given the weather conditions that is causing the heavy seas! Practice makes safety.

Bill Meinert

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 12/08/2003 : 11:20:38

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by deastburn
 I am struck once again by how different things are for lake sailors than for coastal sailors.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
EXACTLY!
I call myself a sailor but if truth were known, I am a helm'sman. Coastal sailors know things, carry things, and prepare for things that I have no concerns for. I only carry an anchor when we want to anchor out, it is in the dock box the rest of the time. When we anchor out we have to try to find a place where we cannot still see the club's navigation lights. Our lake has a mud bottom, the worst thing than can happen is you blow up on a shore line and walk ashore. (It is funny though, I get very little sleep on the hook, I wake up every few minutes worried about dragging.) VHF radio? I don't need no stink'n VHF radio, we yell! Power boats are noisy things that people drag around on trailers. A large boat to us is the pontoon boat with an upper deck! I intentionally sail in wind most coastal people probably try to avoid, if it gets worse for them it can get a lot worse, for me, if it gets worse, it just means a more difficult job of docking instead on an easy one. I seldom reef, I would rather pinch. The focus needed to pinch in 25knots is exhausting but exhilarating too, I cannot imagine doing that in a seaway. I envy where you all go and what you can do but as a lake person I think I spend a lot more time with my hand on the tiller than those who have so many other things to concern themselves with. Hence my comfort with single handed wing on wing and Gybing. We execute a tack or gybe every few minutes or we hit the shore. For me sailing is comprised of maintaining sail shape and responding to the feel of the tiller, those two things literally take up 95% of my focus. The other 5% is noticing other boats.

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 12/08/2003 : 11:22:39

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I don't share others' concerns about broaching, especially in light air. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Same here.

I usually rig a preventer in light air to keep the boom from bouncing and banging around as the boat flops from wave action. This is primarily to avoid equipment damage rather than bodily damage since I remain below the boom anyway. This is another great feature about a bimini...it doesn't allow you to get near the boom for it to whack you.

Edited by - dlucier on 12/08/2003 11:23:08

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