Association Forum - WTB Catalina 25

Assn Members Area · Join

Home.

Association Forum

Ships Store

Cruising

Racing

Technical Tips

Photo Gallery - New

Boat Search - Updated

Manuals & Brochures

Swap Meet

Links

Officer Flag Line & Staff

Bylaws & Constitution

Members Area

Join the Association

Notice:
The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.

Association Forum

Username:	Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

All Forums

Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

WTB Catalina 25

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Author

Topic

Scotd
Navigator

Member Avatar

USA
136 Posts

Initially Posted - 12/08/2003 : 11:48:22

I am looking to buy a older Catalina 25, late 70's to early 80's, Swing keel with trailer, what do I need to look for? What parts of the boat are known to have trouble? Leaks? Keel cable? Keel pin? Questions to ask the seller? ect. It would be nice to have a list of things to check, I don't want any surprizes that will cost me when I get the boat home.

Thanks

Scot
Rapid City, SD

Scot Dannenbring
"Getaway"
#3376 1982 SK/SR
Rapid City, SD
http://rap.midco.net/scotd6/

Edited by - on

77Gypsy
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
356 Posts

Response Posted - 12/08/2003 : 11:59:54

Have the entire swing keel system checked out by a surveyor. then ask when was the last time the y replaced the cable, and pin. see if they had replaced the aluminum spreader brackets with the stainless steel. if not, it's pretty in expensive to do. i would also check the motor mount and make sure it is sturdy. i've seen some boats that had exceeded the recommended weight for an engine and had a wobbly motor mount. feel around the interior floor for damp areas that can mean a leak.

I hope this helps.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 12/08/2003 : 12:04:38

Scot,

Check out these two articles by Larry Charlot and good luck in your search...

[url="http://www.catalina25-250.org/tech/tech25/summertm.html"]Shopping for a Catalina 25[/url]

[url="http://www.catalina25-250.org/tech/tech25/summert2.html"]Self-Appraising a Catalina 25 [/url]

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 12/08/2003 : 13:25:00

You should look at as many Catalina 25s as possible. I looked at one and bought it. I am stupid. If your sail at a place where wet slips are an issue then a boat with a slip is worth a lot more than a boat with out one. I am stupid. The age of the boat you are looking for is predetermining that you will have more maintenance than if you were looking for a newer boat. I paid $7k for an 82 on a trailer. I have owned the boat since Sep 1. I have doubled the cost of the boat in three months. I am stupid. My bottom looked like it had no blisters and I was proud of such a fine old bottom. I wanted to start the bottom paint over so I blasted all of the paint off my bottom. There I found 22 years worth of sanding on gelcoat and blisters. I am stupid. An old boat that has no barrier coat either needs one or will need one. My bottom job cost $2k to have done. You are shopping for a boat which has a very reasonable cost of entry, $4k-$8k. I am now of the opinion that it coasts $10k to buy the boat you are looking for, some percentage of the amount will be up front to the seller and the balance will be almost immediate to put it in the water. It is rare that the trailer under a boat that age is in good working order, mine needed brakes and new rollers. You may get a boat with a motor the same age as the boat, I did. An old motor probably needs several hundred dollars of maintenance either immediately or soon. Do not get me wrong, you are shopping for the right boat, these boats are worth every penny they cost, just be aware that you pay up front for a really well maintained boat or you pay later to make the boat safe and sane to sail.
Bottom line; you will have surprises, no two boats are alike. With a Catalina 25 you may have a dry boat with a bad keel pin or a wet boat with a good keel pin. A bad bottom, split rudder, old spar parts, bad interior, deck rot, leaking windows, bad gudgeons, leaking anchor well, leaking rub rail, bad teak, or any number of things. An old boat either has issues or is not listed for sale. Really good old boats have people lined up to buy them and they never see the open market. You will have issues and how you deal with them is what will make your new boat truly yours.

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 12/08/2003 : 14:16:04

I love my 1978 Cat 25 fin keel and got a very good boat and good bargin when I bought her for $6000. I had bad keel bolts and the seller paid for a $1000 repair as a condition of the sale. I looked at 20 boats and when I finally decided on a C25 at about 5 of them. They're not hard to find. Some were in appalling bad condition.

Things to look out for: mushy delaminated decks or bulkheads (walk away), bad leaks into the cabin (walk away), bad cracks or fractures around chainplates, shrouds or stays, bad cracks around motor mount or rudder pintles/gudgeons, if the swing keel trunk has been broken because the keel dropped, walk away. You can find a C25 without these killer flaws.

Things to consider (no need to walk away, but reduce your ofer): condition of sails, condition of standing and running rigging, condition of motor mount and motor. Also window leaks, or leaks around the stanchions or poptop are not hard to fix as long as the deck is not mushy and delaminated.

Equipment on board that sweetens the deal: roller furling, autopilot, electronics, balanced rudder, cushions and interior condition, anchoring gear, racing gear, extra sails, equipped for spinakker, and so on.

I don't have a trailer so I can't comment about that.

Decide on what kind of interior you want: traditional, dinette, or what I have, the pedestal table with L shaped port setee (I like this best).

Before you make an offer go over the boat with a microscope Bow to Stern and look at everything. Then make and offer, then pay your $250 to have the boat professionally surveyed. Any flaws the surveyor finds you can then negotiate them off the offer price. Also make sure to make your offer contingent on your acceptance of the survey and sea trial.

Edited by - on

ronrryan
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
561 Posts

Response Posted - 12/08/2003 : 21:20:52

I guess after about fifty years on the water and maybe twenty or more boats, half sail, half power, I could not agree more with frank. You pay up front or you pay as you go. I used to love a challenge, and took great pleasure in improving older boats, or ones needing more love, to put it differently. Now I would prefer a turnkey operation, but then one's pocketbook usually dictates the decision. C25's are one of the best buys in the world, IMHO, but of course one must be very careful of the areas of concern mentioned above. A survey is critical. But if you see a really fine C25 and it is three thousand more than a lesser one, for example, find the three grand. You are going to spend it anyway, downstream, in driblets. Of course if you're really handy and find a STEAL, You will ignore all this. Fair winds, ron srsk Orion SW FL

Edited by - on

Gary B.
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
969 Posts

Response Posted - 12/09/2003 : 04:44:18

I have a '78 SK/SR that I think is SUPER condition and has been upgraded with most items from: heavier bracket, heavier rigging, spreader brackets, bow roller, very complete sail inventory, epoxy bottom, custom bed, AP, etc., etc., including a super canvas cockpit enclosure that snaps around the lifelines from mast to stern pulpit. This boat wants for very little, except maybe a furler, if you thought you needed one; I don't like 'em.

The EZ Loader trailer is in great shape. I owned this boat since 1983, but sold her to friend who had her from '92 to '98. In '98, I bought her back for over $9000, but she was worth every penny.

The point is that she has been so upgraded that very little is original. If you can find a boat as good as this one, BUY IT! I actually TURNED DOWN $10, 500 in 2002, cuz I couldn't replace her for that.

In my opinion, a well cared for, upgraded older sailboat can be a GREAT investment. Buying a cheap , beat up one is rarely a good deal; you'll never re-coup what you put into her. Whereas, I will never re-coup all that I have spent keeping my boat in pretty dang good shape.

Also, I know these boats and would NOT pay for a survey, as I know what to look for. If you are new to them, or a rookie sailor, it might be worth it. Also, insurance could be an issue on an older boat without one. I sent in pictures of my boat after I bought her back.....No problem with getting insured.

Good luck.

While there are boats that are prettier, or faster, or roomier, etc., I have hung on to mine because it is hard to find a more PRACTICAL, utilitarian, all around boat as good as a C25 for the buck. I have looked.....a lot!

Gary B.
Encore! #685 SK/SR

Edited by - on

osmepneo
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

USA
1420 Posts

Response Posted - 12/09/2003 : 06:28:12

Osmepneo is a 1980, wing keel, standard rig. The previous owner did the retrofit for the wing keel, and I think it was a great enhansement! When I was looking for her, I looked at all the sources of boats for sale that I could find and made a price to age table. And, then started looking at the ones that were close to me. I paid $9000 which included winter storage and spring launch. On the high side for a an '80, but not for a wing and for the upgrades that the po had done on the boat. The one thing that didn't come with it, that I really would have liked would have been a trailer. It didn't and now I am seeking one to replace the cradle

The most important thing you can do is have the boat surveyed. Well worth the price and it gives you a list of potential "honey do" projects. The surveyor, a professional marine surveyor, knows what to look for, and the questions ask. His report and advise are well worth the $ spent.

Keep us posted on your progress, and after buying your 25, remember to join the association!

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 12/09/2003 : 09:12:09

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Before you make an offer go over the boat with a microscope Bow to Stern and look at everything. Then make and offer, then pay your $250 to have the boat professionally surveyed. Any flaws the surveyor finds you can then negotiate them off the offer price. Also make sure to make your offer contingent on your acceptance of the survey and sea trial.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">A survey is critical. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Also, I know these boats and would NOT pay for a survey, as I know what to look for. If you are new to them, or a rookie sailor, it might be worth it.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">The most important thing you can do is have the boat surveyed. Well worth the price and it gives you a list of potential "honey do" projects. The surveyor, a professional marine surveyor, knows what to look for, and the questions ask. His report and advise are well worth the $ spent.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

The only problem for him is that the Association of Certified Marine Surveyors has no members in South Dakota!

I, like Gary, perform my own surveys, but that's me.

Edited by - on

Scotd
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
136 Posts

Response Posted - 12/14/2003 : 09:49:26

I just wanted to thank everone that helped me out, I did in fact drive 600 miles and looked at all the areas that were of concern, and thanks to your help was able to make an offer on the boat. I now own a 1982 Catalina 25, Swing keel with pop top, I will travel next weekend to get the boat and tow it home. The tires are weather checked, they I think are h78 X 15? Trailer is a shore land and has bearing buddies. Any more thoughts?

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 12/14/2003 : 10:27:58

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 12/14/2003 : 10:42:02

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Scotd
 I just wanted to thank everone that helped me out, I did in fact drive 600 miles and looked at all the areas that were of concern, and thanks to your help was able to make an offer on the boat. I now own a 1982 Catalina 25, Swing keel with pop top, I will travel next weekend to get the boat and tow it home. The tires are weather checked, they I think are h78 X 15? Trailer is a shore land and has bearing buddies. Any more thoughts?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Mine is an 82 sail #2790. We love pictures! please take some. Of course you need to know a little history before you get too worried about much. It the trailer has not mo=ved for a long time I would take a set of bearings with me, changing bearing by hte side of the road sounds horrible until you compare it to NOT being able to change bearing by the side of the road. If the trailer has traveled recently then the bearings are probably ok and a shot of grease in the bearing buddies is all you need. I have an old hand grease gun that uses tubes about 3/4 X 7", it does not develop enough pressure to push the bearing buddies on my wheels, If you don't already have one I would go buy a real two handed full sized grease gun and take it with me to pick up the boat. I use the big yellow straps to secure my boat on my trailer, I got mine at Home Depot but I see them every where. They are cheap and strong. Put some twists in them and they will not flutter in the road wind. There has been much discussion about towing with engine on or off the transom, I am a off guy. If you have a mast up or some crutch that uses the gudgeons then the rudder question is pre-answered, biy if you do not have a gudgeon based crutch then you can choose whether or not to leave the rudder on. I would but make sure it is lashed straight. There is a great PVC stern rail bases crutch on the forum in a recent thread. Stop often, you do not know the rig. Make sure you have the right size ball. I brought mine 35 miles from the dealer to my house with a 2" ball and should have had a 2 5/8". I had no brakes, many old trailers have non-functioning brakes. Depending on what you tow with that is either bad or a crisis. I rebuilt my brake coupler, installed new galvanized brakes and put on a new brake line in a day, I had no idea what I was doing, If it needs new brakes you can do it your self. Few if any old trailers have dual brakes, we all should have dual brakes. Electrics are best, I stayed with surge and regret it. The best tip is make sure you are ready to make the trip home, if you need to put it off while work is done, put it off, be safe.
Good luck, if you need to call and ask any questions when on the road I will try to help.
316-641-6136-cell

(believe me, there are numbers you would rather have than mine)

Edited by - on

lcharlot
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Antigua and Barbuda
1301 Posts

Response Posted - 12/14/2003 : 12:28:21

What a Christmas present, a new sailboat! Over the next few months, you will have a great time going through her and planning all the upgrades you will want to do. As for the trip home, the single most important thing you should do is make several stops in the first 5 or 6 miles of towing, checking the trailer wheel hubs and brake drums for temperature. They will slowly get warm, but should never get hot enough to burn your fingers. If you can, lift each wheel with a jack under the end of the axle and spin the wheel - there should be little or no noise from the brakes or bearings, and the wheel should have almost zero freeplay on the bearings. If there is any grinding or rumbling noises from the bearings, or any significant freeplay, DO NOT tow the boat until the bearings have been replaced! If you own a heavy-duty floor jack, bring it on the trip. If you get a flat tire, you need a hefty jack to lift a Catalina 25 trailer axle. Also, if the trailer doesn't have a spare tire, I strongly recommend you get one before hitting the road. A spare 15" rim and tire shouldn't cost more than $80 to $100 and if you need it, it willl be worth every penny.
Good luck and let us know how the trip went.

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

3072 Posts

Response Posted - 12/14/2003 : 13:32:34

"Any more thoughts?"

Micellaneous IMHO ramblings follow...

Take plenty of 'possibles' when going to pick her up.

Hand tools, bungee cords, extra line to secure things, ductape, a jack that will fit under the trailer in case you need to change a tire, grease gun, rags, hand cleaner, a small tarp to put down if you need to work. Make sure you have a lug wrench or socket that fits the lug nuts. Extra bulbs for the trailer lights and fuses for trailer light circuit if applicable. Flares and some reflective triangles, good flashlight or lantren. Tire inflation gauge.

Don't over-fill the bearing buddies, if you can get the SN of the trailer ahead of time, try to have an extra set or two of wheel bearings and seals in hand along with a hammer and brass drift to change them. If the trailer doesn't have a spare tire, you'll want one anyway. If you can, get one ahead of time.

Stop frequently and check the tires/bearings/brakes/lug nuts... inspect the boat to make sure it's not moving about etc. Make sure it has a safety chain from the winch base to the bow eye (mine didn't).

Edited by - on

coach
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
231 Posts

Response Posted - 12/15/2003 : 22:34:44

One of the best things to do when you do have it re-done is to double line it. So, if one breaks...you still have a backup to crank it up.

Edited by - on

Topic

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Jump To:

Association Forum

Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.