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Catalina 250 Suitable for the SF Bay?

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SFsail
Deckhand

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Initially Posted - 12/15/2003 : 23:48:42

I’m seriously interested in buying an approx. 25’ sailboat for sailing primarily on the San Francisco bay as well as occasional long weekends on Clear Lake, about 3 hours from here. Planned usage is by my wife & I and 2 kids for daysailing and overnighting, but I suspect I will be doing some single-handing as well. So far, I’ve looked at the following trailerable sailboats, including the Catalina 250, the Macgregor 26M as well as the Potter 19, but haven’t actually sailed any of these boats.

I plan to keep it in the water at a marina or dry sail it (depending on launching & rigging ease), but am thinking of buying a trailerable so we can visit the lake a couple of times a year.

I like the spaciousness of the Catalina 250 WB, but I've heard some comments that water ballasted boats aren't really suitable for typical SF Bay conditions. The Catalina 250 WK just seems too much to tow comfortably with my minivan, although maybe I could rent a truck to tow it a couple of times a year to the lake?

The Potter 19 may be a good compromise - easy trailerability, supposedly stout and easily single-handeded, and I've seen many on the Bay, but it is very small inside and has no enclosed head (an important feature for the Admiral!)

I would really appreciate getting your feedback.

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 12/16/2003 : 09:30:46

The water ballast will handle the bay fine and in fact is given good marks for her comfort in chop.

At issue is ease of trailering, launching and retrieval, which of coure go to the water ballast as it was designed specifically to ease these.

The wing is much more favorable to a moored or slipped boat as it avoids the complexities of centerboard system and ballast tank which exist to facilitate the easier trailering.

The water ballast would not be a good choice if racing is contemplated.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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Response Posted - 12/16/2003 : 10:00:04

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">The water ballast would not be a good choice if racing is contemplated.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
The jury is still out on this question. A water ballasted C-250 is raced very competitively at my lake. It might be more accurate to say that the wing keel has been proven to be a good performer, but the water ballast's ability has not yet been proven. I don't know whether the water ballast can consistently beat the wing keel, but, in the hands of a good sailor, it can certainly be competitive with the wing keel.

Edited by - on

Oscar
Master Marine Consultant

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2030 Posts

Response Posted - 12/16/2003 : 10:28:44

Second Arlyn on most points.....

The 250 is the biggest boat you can drag down the road, and still launch with relative ease on most ramps, period.

As far as your minivan, the 250 WB with four folks worth of gear weighs in at about 5500, check the manual to see what you can tow.

I have sailed her on the Chesapeake in winds approaching 40 kts. Motion was pleasant, and the boat was mostly dry. It was more like the Catalina 30 I used to own, than the J21 I used to rent. Although I haven't sailed SFO Bay, I've stood on its shores and looked at it many a time. Looks like it would be a perfect fit.

If the admiral wants a head, she gets a head. (Mine did, and she got it.)

We cruise, up to ten days at a time. The kids are 5/10. It's a little crowded, but after some modifications the boat has all the necessary comforts. We have a lot of fun.

Oscar

Lady Kay 250 WB #618

Edited by - Oscar on 12/16/2003 10:36:45

Bryan Beamer
Master Marine Consultant

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1038 Posts

Response Posted - 12/16/2003 : 12:18:07

If you want to trailer sail exclusively then the C250wb is what you want. I wouldn't ever consider the Mac 26 as an option. Of course that is MHO. I don't anything about the Potter 19.
I had a Hunter 19 before my C250wk and like you I have a wife and 2 kids 8 & 13, the Hunter 19 was waaay to small for anything but day sailing. We did stay over night on the boat a lot but never away from the dock and never more than 2 nights of course the kids at that time were 1 and 6.

On the other hand if you are going to wet slip the boat and have a way to haul it and you are only looking to trailer to a different sailing venue once or twice a year the wing keel is not difficult to launch and retrieve.
This is my situation. My boat is in the water year round and we might take it to a different location once a year, plus I enjoy the extra 9" of head room that the wk model gives you as appose to the wb.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 12/16/2003 : 13:23:37

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Bryan Beamer
 ...and like you I have a wife and 2 kids 8 & 13,<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Hey, I've got a wife and 2 kids, 8 and 13 too! We must have hit the same sale!

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 12/16/2003 : 14:06:15

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">The jury is still out on this question.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I agree... there is not enough information to have a crystal clear picture. But, offwind, SD is big stuff. Running more sail and 4 inches higher in the water... the wing keel is going to own the off wind leg in all but hull speed winds.

If owning the water ballast... pray to the wind gods.

Edited by - on

Bryan Beamer
Master Marine Consultant

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1038 Posts

Response Posted - 12/16/2003 : 16:16:33

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dlucier
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Bryan Beamer
 ...and like you I have a wife and 2 kids 8 & 13,<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Hey, I've got a wife and 2 kids, 8 and 13 too! We must have hit the same sale!

Edited by - on

DougA
1st Mate

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USA
73 Posts

Response Posted - 12/16/2003 : 21:30:43

There are several of us who sail 250wbs on the bay. If you want to dry sail it, look at the storage lot next to the Grand Street ramp in Alameda, they will be opening a new dry sail lot at the Redwood City launch area.. Trailering to Clear Lake, Lake Berryessa, the Delta, Lake Tahoe, Santa Cruz/Monterey Bay are just some of the local places to go.

The mini van as a tow rig would scare me. I use a Dodge Ram 4x4. With a group like that I would look for a full marine head and skip the porta potty.

Edited by - on

Bryan Beamer
Master Marine Consultant

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1038 Posts

Response Posted - 12/17/2003 : 10:39:58

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> I would look for a full marine head and skip the porta potty.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

If you do, unless Catalina has upgraded from the 2000 model year the holding tank and the hoses running from the head to the tank and out to the pump out discharge, plan on upgrading them yourself and also add in a monitor to let you know when the tank is full. The head itself is good. The thru hull and the hose running to the head to drawl green water for flushing is also okay.

Edited by - on

Dkn420
Captain

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USA
298 Posts

Response Posted - 12/17/2003 : 12:15:26

Bryan: What type of hoses did you use to upgrade, and what kind of monitor did you use. I'm going to contact Catalina and see if any upgrades were made from the 2000 model and will post the answer when received...Dan #727

Edited by - on

BJ Wagner
1st Mate

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USA
50 Posts

Response Posted - 12/17/2003 : 12:46:09

Bryan,

Is your holding tank behind the aft berth? If it is located there, other than the quality of hose, do you have any other problems with the system and the long run of hose?

I installed a 13 gallon todd tank back there a year ago, after moving the batteries forward, but have never finished the project.

The plan was to install an electic head (already have the wiring done) but ran out of boat units before I purchased the head, and was wondering if I could get by with the manual head instead of the electic considering the long run of hose.

Edited by - on

gregandcindy
Deckhand

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USA
7 Posts

Response Posted - 12/17/2003 : 13:44:56

Doug A. I will be sailing a C250wk in the Bay and would like to hook up with your group sometimes. You had mentioned the possibility of dry docking at a new Alameda facility. Do you have a phone number or email address for this place? and do they have a lift big enough for 250s or is it going to be self serve like Berkeley Marina where you can park your boat and they provide nothing more? Coming from Fresno to sail would require us to bring the Truck(300mi round trip) for launching each time and I'd prefer not to(cutting costs anywhere is desirable). During the summer you could come up to Huntington Lake and sail with us in the High Sierra Regatta! Cool.

Edited by - on

Bryan Beamer
Master Marine Consultant

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1038 Posts

Response Posted - 12/17/2003 : 14:13:19

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Dkn420
 Bryan: What type of hoses did you use to upgrade, and what kind of monitor did you use. I'm going to contact Catalina and see if any upgrades were made from the 2000 model and will post the answer when received...Dan #727
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

The monitor I used is on page 455 of the 2003 West Marine Catalog. It is a Sealand Tank watch 4, model #1232263
Here is a picture of the monitor display location

The hose is on page 457 of the same catalog. It is Sealand Odorsafe hose model #1874882.(Rated by Practical Sailor, 16 times greater resistance to odors than other marine hoses)I knew one day that subscription would be helpfull.

The tank is on page 455. It is Sealand Tough Tanks model # 410886
This tank was the thickest I could find that also had the 3" inspection port for the monitor cap with micro float switches to screw into.

The head treatment I use is on page 454. It is Hydro Odorlos model #2633501. I have spent my whole life around port a potties and head systems in RV’s and boats have tried all kinds of different treatments and this stuff is by far the best.

Here is a Link from the archives about the C250 head system. In that thread is a post of my holding tank horror story.

http://www.catalina25-250.org/forum/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=2280

Edited by - on

Bryan Beamer
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1038 Posts

Response Posted - 12/17/2003 : 14:21:56

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by BJ Wagner
 Bryan,

Is your holding tank behind the aft berth? If it is located there, other than the quality of hose, do you have any other problems with the system and the long run of hose?

I installed a 13 gallon todd tank back there a year ago, after moving the batteries forward, but have never finished the project.

The plan was to install an electic head (already have the wiring done) but ran out of boat units before I purchased the head, and was wondering if I could get by with the manual head instead of the electic considering the long run of hose.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Yes it is.
I have had no problems with this location or with the manual pump head. It even handles the bigger loads if you know what I'm sayin.

Edited by - on

Oscar
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2030 Posts

Response Posted - 12/17/2003 : 17:00:53

Have to put in my two cents here. I replaced the standard three shot glass porta potty that comes with the 250 with a six gallon beauty. With no hoses, in or out, odor management is no problem. And for what it costs, you can buy a fresh one every once in a while. The capacity is plenty for 5-6 days, provided you use the shore potty as much as possible, especially for the more serious productions..

Admittedly, emptying is not the most pleasant chore, but if you want there is a way to hook up a pump out hose.

I used the $$ and the space behind the aft bulkhead for the AC....

Oscar

Lady Kay 250 WB #618

Edited by - on

Dkn420
Captain

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USA
298 Posts

Response Posted - 12/17/2003 : 19:33:59

Bryan: Thanks for the information, the following is the answer I received from Kent Nelson at the Catalina factory:

Dan,
"We did start using a new vent hose in September of 2002 that is more resistant to odor permeation, our part number 60642. Call Snake River Electronics for their 102-MINI holding tank gauge at 208-233-7290. It consists of two strips mounted to the outside of the tank, a module (sensor), and a panel (display). We have installed one such unit in a C 250, placing the panel in the head and tying into the head light for the power requirements."

Dan #727

Edited by - on

Bryan Beamer
Master Marine Consultant

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1038 Posts

Response Posted - 12/17/2003 : 19:59:32

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">We did start using a new vent hose in September of 2002 that is more resistant to odor permeation,<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Thanks for the update.

I don't think just upgrading the vent hose is going to fix the problem it might help. The vent hose only has smelly air going thru it. Why don't they upgrade the hoses going to the tank and to the thru hull? On my boat those were the problem areas.

Edited by - on

s3tbuell
1st Mate

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47 Posts

Response Posted - 12/17/2003 : 20:00:41

We have a 250 WB and one thing no one has addressed, is the SF area is surrounded by mountains and curvy roads. I grew up there and have traveled most of them…..did I leave out traffic???
I have a Dodge diesel 4X4 truck with a manual transmission 4:10 gears.
Ok maybe to much detail but the lighter and lower the better when towing. Having said this there are so many places(Tahoe to Santa Cruz) I feel that SFsail may choose to sail.
I am a single father of three. I tow, step the mast and sail the boat myself. We have gone to the San Juan Islands for a week with no issues about head room(WB vers WK). As for sailing a WB, I have been sailing for 30+ years from 10’ to 42’ and I love this boat for all it can do, cant beach a WK. As for racing, if you race and want to compete buy a race boat. If you want to race your VW van go for it. I just love all the places I can go with a WB that I WK cant.

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