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Big enough to cruise with four?

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reuben
Navigator

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USA
202 Posts

Initially Posted - 12/16/2003 : 23:46:25

Hello - I'm considering buying a lovely 250 wingkeel, but would first like to hear from anyone who's cruised one with a family/crew of four people. Walking through several boats last weekend I was impressed by the 250's space below; yet several people have suggested I check out a larger vessel, like a C-27 or O'Day 27. I'm inclined to think the 250 is big enough, as we're a family that seems to get along well and most of our outings will be 2-3 days at most; but I'd be grateful for any and all practical thoughts on this matter.
Thanks - Reuben.

Reuben
C-250 WK #499
Bayfield, WI

Edited by - on

sailgal
Captain

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USA
400 Posts

Response Posted - 12/17/2003 : 00:16:28

Oscar are you there?? Must be out earning BU's or sleeping. He could answer your question as he cruises with his clan (wife and two children) often. He seems happy.
Since it is just me and my first mate...I couldn't say how two additional crew overnight would be, but then again I have a water ballast and we sleep in the front v berth, using the aft for storage. The aft berth on a wing is easier to get in and out of compared to the WB, so for younger folk that is a consideration. Daysailing on a 250 with four is wonderful, such a large cockpit. I'll conclude on this note... I love my 250 and for the money (big step up in price for the extra couple of feet of a c-27)) I couldn't ask for more....well then again...LOL

Good luck, I'm sure you'll get plenty of responses.

Edited by - on

osmepneo
Past Commodore

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USA
1420 Posts

Response Posted - 12/17/2003 : 06:49:35

R-R-R-R-R-R-R-R

That "aft berth" stuff!

R-R-R-R-R-R-R-R

When we bought osmepneo, I made a comment about the after berth

, and salesmen was shocked and embarrassed. He informed that in no uncertain the after birth is really the quarter berth, I suppose thingking I had said "birth" instead of berth. Go figure!

Edited by - osmepneo on 12/17/2003 06:50:15

Oscar
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2030 Posts

Response Posted - 12/17/2003 : 06:58:47

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">He seems happy.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I am. When I bought, the premise was trailerability. We sail the Chesapeake in the summer, and escape south for Fall/Winter/Spring Break. With an in water boat that means 5-6 thousand in annual mooring fees. (Mostly monthly rates). So, the biggest thing that goes on wheels is the 250WB. Our kids are girl10/boy5. They get along well, but I know there will come a point in the near future when they'll need more space...in more than one way.
As far as logistics, the crew gets to line up their stuff in the hallway, and then take half. Parents are in the MRI chamber, one kid makes a cave in front of the back rest, the other one sleeps on a settee with a lee cloth. I've made a table that stores out of the way on the back of the head door, so I can set up meal time and break it down without moving people or stuff. Minimizing the latter is key. I've put hooks on the outside of the head for coats, and turned the wet locker into a shelved bathroom closet. I've also added shore power for heat and AC.
So, with the necessary mods it works, and yes we are comfortable and have fun. Meanwhile I spend a lot of hours on yachtworld.com looking at 45-50 foot floating mini mansions.

The moment I can make the numbers work.....

Oscar

Lady Kay 250 WB #618

Edited by - Oscar on 12/17/2003 07:04:19

Bryan Beamer
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1038 Posts

Response Posted - 12/17/2003 : 11:26:09

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">several people have suggested I check out a larger vessel, like a C-27 <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I did this dance 4 years ago. The C250?s aft and v-berths are bigger than the C270?s. All you get with a C270 is a bigger main salon and IMHO an inboard motor that is almost impossible to work on. Hard to justify the big extra cost for that.

I also have a wife and 2 kids 13/boy and 8/girl (I would tell you my wife's age but she might hit me)we stay on the boat 2 or 3 nights at a time often. Our sleeping arrangements are similar to Oscar?s. With the table on the wing keel removed it opens up the main area a lot, we don?t take our table out very often.

At bedtime we usually throw stuff that lives in the berths during the day under the table and we keep the head available for night use.

A C250wk with 4 is very doable it does take some organization on everybody?s part. The organization thing also helps the kids at home when it comes to keeping their rooms clean.

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 12/17/2003 : 12:06:30

Don, the distinction between aft berth and quarter berth is another difference between the C25 and 250.

On the 25, the berth lies on one of her quarters and the description fits well, avoiding as you say the use of aft. However, the c250 has a full width berth under her entire cockpit and quarter berth doesn't fit.

Maybe its a double quarter berth...

or as Oscar says, MRI chamber. Whichever it is, its not a friendly place for those of us who have paced past the middle point of life, at least true on the centerboard model.

When more than two aboard on R&R... it gets used, by the youngest and most agile.

Edited by - on

reuben
Navigator

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USA
202 Posts

Response Posted - 12/17/2003 : 13:39:39

First: what a marvelous forum this is! I'm amazed and pleased to get helpful responses so quickly, and having spent a little time reading old posts and responses I've learned much I hope will be of use come cruising season. Now if you'll bear with me -- can anyone out there compare the 250 with the classic 27, in terms of comfort and room for 4? The 270 is out of my price range, but there are several goodlooking 27 wing-keels on the web which might be good choices (of course they haven't got the catbird seats or open transom, which my family are smitten with on the 250). Thanks, everyone, for your time and thoughts - Reuben.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 12/17/2003 : 14:32:33

Reuben,
Right now there is someone asking about the 250 on SF bay, if he did not want to trailer I would say the more displacement in the bay the better, i.e. an old 27 would rock. So in my mind it is a question of where and how you plan to use your boat, I live in high wind heaven, an old 27 would work well for me too, but I would need to have someone else tow it to my house for the winter, I am too independant for that. Where will you sail and how will you maintain the boat? If you are on the great lakes then I think you should have a fixed keel and all the displacement that you can afford. An inboard is better for rough water as well. Plus, I do not see how people with these open plans have the privacy that my wife and I have always wanted. Where is the door to shut the kids out!!!

Edited by - on

reuben
Navigator

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USA
202 Posts

Response Posted - 12/17/2003 : 15:36:26

Fair question. We plan to rent a slip at a large inland lake nearby and use the boat as a lake cabin -- a few nights in this bay, a few in that, race in the local regatta, find a pretty anchorage in which to swim. Longest cruise of maybe a week, without the kids, over our anniversary. Since we won't trailer often I'd prefer wingkeel to waterballast; also, our aim is eventually to get over to Superior and cruise the Great Lakes, and then as you say we'll want all the displacement possible. Since you bring up the open layout and privacy questions, lets throw those into the discussion -- how *do* you cruise with privacy? I've always assumed it would be like camping, which we've done a lot - you're out having an adventure, you've got a nice one-room tent, and privacy's just one of those things you sacrifice for a day or two. Anyone?

Edited by - on

Oscar
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2030 Posts

Response Posted - 12/17/2003 : 16:47:07

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">its not a friendly place for those of us who have paced past the middle point of life<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Guess I'm going to get to be really old....

The MRI chamber is quite comfortable, as long as you're lying down. (Especially with the electric blanket or AC register as might be needed) On the port side (my side of course

) sitting up in the middle of the night leads to a concussion, a damaged cockpit, or both. My revenge comes when I have to get up in the middle of the night and get to crawl over the admiral...

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">how *do* you cruise with privacy<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

shhhhhhhh!!! You have to be vewy vewy quiet.....it's an art.

He let's be real, a corrugated cardboard, eh, plywood door is not exactly a sound barrier either.

Oscar

Lady Kay 250 WB #618

Edited by - on

Buzz Maring
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1771 Posts

Response Posted - 12/17/2003 : 17:00:59

... (I would tell you my wife's age but she might hit me). - Bryan Beamer

Quote from the Mainsheet, Vol. 21, No. 4, November 2003, p. 59, "Daylight Again's Trip to the 2003 Nationals," by Catalina 250 winner Bryan Beamer:

 ... We left on my Wife's 40th birthday June 11 about 10:00am. ...

Oh man ... you are sooooo busted ...

Edited by - on

Oscar
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2030 Posts

Response Posted - 12/17/2003 : 17:53:08

Buzz gets the "marine intelligence agency" award of the year......

Oscar

Lady Kay 250 WB #618

Edited by - on

Bryan Beamer
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1038 Posts

Response Posted - 12/17/2003 : 18:49:34

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by fhopper@mac.com
 Reuben,
Plus, I do not see how people with these open plans have the privacy that my wife and I have always wanted. Where is the door to shut the kids out!!!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I spent many many many hours on a C25 in the 80?s it doesn't even have a door for the head area. So I ask you were is the door.

Anybody can put up a sliding curtain for privacy.

Oh yea the C250 DOES have a door for the head.

Edited by - on

Bryan Beamer
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1038 Posts

Response Posted - 12/17/2003 : 18:56:26

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Buzz Maring
 ... (I would tell you my wife's age but she might hit me). - Bryan Beamer

Quote from the Mainsheet, Vol. 21, No. 4, November 2003, p. 59, "Daylight Again's Trip to the 2003 Nationals," by Catalina 250 winner Bryan Beamer:

 ... We left on my Wife's 40th birthday June 11 about 10:00am. ...

Oh man ... you are sooooo busted ...

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

So someone did read that article. They sure cut it up more than I would have liked. Some of it didn't even make since.
She saw her age mentioned in the magazine and she said if I EVER did that again I was in for it. Did I mention she is a Black Belt in Taekwondo.

Edited by - on

Oscar
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2030 Posts

Response Posted - 12/17/2003 : 19:11:42

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">she said if I EVER did that again I was in for it.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

And now it's all over the internet....does she know that yet? You better hope I never get close to your stern in a race...

Oscar

Lady Kay 250 WB #618

Edited by - on

Bryan Beamer
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1038 Posts

Response Posted - 12/17/2003 : 19:26:13

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Oscar
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">she said if I EVER did that again I was in for it.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

And now it's all over the internet....does she know that yet? You better hope I never get close to your stern in a race...

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Yea, but...but I didn't post it Buzz did.

Good thing for me she doesn't read this forum much.

Edited by - on

Oscar
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2030 Posts

Response Posted - 12/17/2003 : 21:20:26

Spike, Spike....make this one of those threads that stays at the top!!!

Oscar

Lady Kay 250 WB #618

Edited by - on

reuben
Navigator

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USA
202 Posts

Response Posted - 12/17/2003 : 23:12:56

Back to my inquiry, though: is a C250 more or less adequate than an older 27 for a 3-day, 4-person cruise? We looked, for example, at a mid-70s Ericson 27: it was sort of decrepit with mildew leering out from behind the upholstery, but the layout seemed good -- it had not just room but *rooms*, which was appealing. We checked the yard for C27s, hoping to compare, but found none; I'm hoping some of you have cruised both C27s and 250s, and might offer an opinion. Thanks for bearing with me - Reuben.

Edited by - on

coldducks
Captain

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USA
342 Posts

Response Posted - 12/18/2003 : 00:15:59

reuben. you asked a simple question, you deserve a simple answer. we have 4 people on our c250 many weekends. we do just fine. one is over 6 feet tall. get your boat and enjoy!!

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 12/18/2003 : 13:45:43

Can I respond to this thread even though our family of 4 (and 2 dogs) cruise on a C25?

Privacy - when the girls need to change I go to the cockpit.

Sleeping - there is plenty of room for sleeping. When we are cruising my snoring bothers EVERYONE instead of just the Admiral like every other night. One kid in the V Berth, one in the quarter, parents in the salon. I think we could sleep 2 more (kids).

Eating - I think the lack of space is worst at mealtimes. The galley is so small there's not much room for meal preparation. We have a barbeque in the cockpit so I am grilling the meat and throwing a fishing lure. I try to stay out of everyone's way. We are especially out of room when it's time to clean up! It's very nice to take the dishes ashore to wash them if possible.

Sailing - boat has plenty of room for 4 while sailing. On a long cruise the kids are generally in the salon playing games or reading. I am sailing. Karen is up and down as suits her.

Fishing - I love to fish and the cockpit is a decent, but small, fishing platform for TWO people. It's hard to cast with the split backstay.

Dinghy - A C250 would be MUCH better for getting into and out of the water. With a solid stern pulpit and a very marginal ladder getting into and out of the C25 is a task (I generally forgo the ladder, grab a winch, and climb into the cockpit - it's not pretty!).

The pop-top and it's cover doubles the liveable space of the vessel.

I also made a boom tent which makes the cockpit very livable at anchor.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 12/18/2003 : 14:47:53

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by reuben
 Back to my inquiry, though: is a C250 more or less adequate than an older 27 for a 3-day, 4-person cruise? We looked, for example, at a mid-70s Ericson 27: it was sort of decrepit with mildew leering out from behind the upholstery, but the layout seemed good -- it had not just room but *rooms*, which was appealing. We checked the yard for C27s, hoping to compare, but found none; I'm hoping some of you have cruised both C27s and 250s, and might offer an opinion. Thanks for bearing with me - Reuben.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

You should arange to sail these boats, there is no common ground between a 250 and a Catalina or Ericson 27. An Ericson is a very different boat than a Catalina, especially a 250. If you are interested in an Ericson you will probably not be happy with a Catalina. Look at Hoopers, A wheel is a good idea on an Ericson 27, the tiller is forward and a cockpit sweeper.
http://www.hoopersyachts.com/index.cfm?pageID=11
http://www.hoopersyachts.com/Index.cfm?PageID=11& usedboatid=416

Edited by - on

cathluk
Admiral

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USA
513 Posts

Response Posted - 12/18/2003 : 22:10:05

Dan I have spent a week cruising on our C250 several times. Plenty of room if you keep things organized. It is possible to prepare a decent meal on the butane burner, but a grill on the stern is a great add - especially in the summer. We've had 2 adults and 1 pre-teen anchored out overnight a couple times & it worked out fine. With the wheel there's a lot of room in the cockpit. The open transom makes swimming & dinghy boarding easy.

Good luck with the search!

Edited by - on

reuben
Navigator

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USA
202 Posts

Response Posted - 12/21/2003 : 08:50:22

One thing I wonder about is hanging storage - a good part of the 250's charm is her open interior, but she hasn't the hanging locker some other boats offer. While I suspect it's no big deal most of the time, where do you stow, for example, wet rain gear in such a way that it doesn't soak the cabin or one of the berths?

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 12/21/2003 : 09:28:18

There is a small wet locker aft of head, its door is within the head area, it is adequate for two or more sets of foulies. I have hooks on the back of the head door for other jackets.

The hanging provisions are minimal but so seem the needs.

Edited by - Arlyn Stewart on 12/21/2003 09:29:34

coldducks
Captain

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USA
342 Posts

Response Posted - 12/21/2003 : 09:37:55

there is a closet pole in the head closet that i didnt discover until after we had our C250. it is very small though. we opted to hang vinyl hanging shelves in there. it hangs on the closet pole with 2 attached coat hangers and gives us about 4 shelves in the closet for towels etc. (it is actually a sweater holder that is sold in the closet shop at most department stores) as far as hanging rain gear, i put 4 coat hooks on the wall beside the porta potty. if they drip, they just drip on the head floor. a towel placed under them catches any moisture that drips off. we also have a retractable close line that goes diagonally from one corner of the head to the opposite corner. it is not the best. but in a pinch you can hang up a few wet items, then unook it and it retracts and is out of site.

Edited by - on

reuben
Navigator

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USA
202 Posts

Response Posted - 12/22/2003 : 23:40:58

Thanks to all for your practical, thoughtful and swift responses - I'm edging up close to this (for me) very large decision, planning another visit to the boatyard in early January when I expect to discern whether it's love or mere infatuation. In this matter much will depend on my wife whose eyes sparked the first time she stepped down into the 250's galley; we had just looked at several longer and older boats, vessels jammed with bulkheads and teak, pretty but dark as jungles. In the meantime I'm greatly enjoying lurking about the forum, soaking up your expertise and good humor, imagining my 12-year-old in a catbird seat, or my wife and I below with cappucino on chilly Saturday mornings. I've a feeling we're about to do the right thing.

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