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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Halyards aft

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Captain B
1st Mate

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USA
88 Posts

Initially Posted - 02/04/2004 : 17:54:27

Has anyone run their halyards aft and used a cam cleat instead of a spinlock. Will a cam cleat be strong enough under a load?

Captain B

'85 C25 #4854 FK/SR/Traditional
Valparaiso "Boggy Bayou", Florida

Edited by - on

eric.werkowitz
Captain

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USA
283 Posts

Response Posted - 02/04/2004 : 18:10:56

Captain B,

I used a clutch when I ran my lines aft. I think you might have trouble using just a cam cleat even if it is strong enough. If you install a cabin top winch to help raise the main, the cam will likely be a bit too low unless it is raised on a small block to get the lead angle right. Raising the cam may make it weaker. Clutches are expensive, but they are easy to release under load, which could also be a problem with a cam cleat.

By the way, I live just across the Bayou from you in WaterOaks.

Eric Werkowitz
C25 #4969

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 02/04/2004 : 18:13:27

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by eric.werkowitz
 

By the way, I live just across the Bayou from you in WaterOaks.

Eric Werkowitz
C25 #4969
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

You mean Creedance Clearwater Revival didn't make that word up?

There is a very recent thread about the question, the answers pretty well cover it. I strongly encourage you to read several months of posts at the very least, you will be amazed!

Edited by - Frank Hopper on 02/04/2004 18:15:29

osmepneo
Past Commodore

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USA
1420 Posts

Response Posted - 02/04/2004 : 21:16:12

On a friend's Ensign he had a blade (jib) which always seemed to come out of the cam cleat he had for his sheet. The bouncing (?) seemed to push the sheet up and out.

Bad scene as the sail luffed.

Woul;d the same happen with a halyard? I wouldn't want to test it, so I bring my halyards to the cockpit using spinlock clutches. They work well!

Edited by - on

frog0911
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1349 Posts

Response Posted - 02/05/2004 : 08:43:40

I am in the process of running additonal lines aft on my new C250 and had the same questions. From what I have read about cam cleats amd clutches it all boils down to cam cleats and Spinlock PX clutches are designed for hand tighten lines while XAS and XTS clutches are designed for winch tightened lines. So I going with triple XAS rope clutches on both sides of the cabin top. I will use cam cleats on my drifter sheets since it is all hand stuff in light winds (up to 5kt).
Good luck with your project.

Edited by - on

Captain B
1st Mate

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USA
88 Posts

Response Posted - 02/05/2004 : 11:06:47

I knew I'd seen cam cleats used for halyards somewhere on this site before. http://www.catalina25-250.org/tech/tech25/pictures/ny!line2.jpg
Looks functional to me. Plus,with the savings between cams and spinlocks I can fill up the cooler with grog. What do you guys think?

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 02/05/2004 : 11:32:21

All cams are not created equal, you were looking at the metal/3 bearing race cams with fairleads, I believe the bill for three of those would exceed the XAS clutches.
http://www.harkenstore.com/uniface.urd/SCCYSPW1

Also... where is the winch? The winch must be behind the cleat if you want to free it up after using it once. In that picture you only have one high tension halyard, the main, it looks like they use the primaries so they do not need a winch on the cabin top. Don’t forget there are different loads on the various lines that you are controlling from your cabin top, for esthetic reasons most of us want our line handling equipment to look symmetrical rather than random. As such we tend to buy triple clutches. You could buy various cleats that were specific to the application of the line you are controlling however you would never be able to reassign the cleats effectively. Once again simply buying the triple clutches seems to provide the most versatility.

Edited by - Frank Hopper on 02/05/2004 12:49:14

Captain B
1st Mate

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USA
88 Posts

Response Posted - 02/05/2004 : 11:55:40

Frank, Thanks for the input and the Harkin link. Just out of curiousity I sent the following to Harkin tech support :"I'm running my halyards aft to the cockpit on a 25' Catalina. I have a 3/8" main halyard. Will a 365 Carbo-Cam with a 425 Fairlead be sufficient to hold the halyard under a sailing load?". I'll let you all know their response

Edited by - on

Captain B
1st Mate

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USA
88 Posts

Response Posted - 02/05/2004 : 12:30:36

Well the jury is in. This is what the Harkin tech rep had to say,
"Bryan,I think that the cam would fail. The safe workload of the cam is #200 and if you are using a winch or even two hands and putting your back into it, you are going to see loads well above that. I would use a clutch." Jim Bourne technical service.
So....it looks like spinlock will get my business and the cooler will be a little short of grog. Damn, I hate it when that happens. Thanks to all of you for your input. Eric, do you sail the "Salty Dog"?

Edited by - on

Doug G.
1st Mate

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USA
49 Posts

Response Posted - 02/05/2004 : 17:36:09

The Defender clearance website(www.defender.com) has Easylock Single clutches for 1/4 to 3/8 line at $ 10.00 each. I am going to order several. I will let you know how they look on arrival.

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eric.werkowitz
Captain

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USA
283 Posts

Response Posted - 02/05/2004 : 17:48:57

Captain B,

That's me!

Eric Werkowitz
C25 #4969

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Scotd
Navigator

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USA
136 Posts

Response Posted - 02/05/2004 : 17:53:55

I used cam cleats on the Mac 26 that I had a few years ago, and they worked out great, in fact I bought the halyards aft kit from Blue water yachts in Seatle, they had this special .... I think it was like $150 for everything.

Edited by - on

Captain B
1st Mate

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USA
88 Posts

Response Posted - 02/06/2004 : 19:29:06

The saga continues. I visited my local West Marine today with the intention of returning my cam cleats and purchasing Spinlock clutches. Turns out that one of the employees is a former Catalina Factory supervisor and he had a wealth of knowledge and experience dealing with leading lines aft. Bottom line is how much you want or can afford to spend. The Harkin 001 swivel blocks that I have (also the same size that CD sells in their kits) has a working load of 500 lbs. The deck organizers are 300lbs and wouldn't you know it, Ronstan RF 5010 Cam Cleats have a working load of 400lbs. SO...The Cams should work just fine. The cams are $18.99 each plus $4.99 for fairleads ($23.98 total x 2 = 47.36)compared to an advertised price of $99.99 for a double spinlock clutch. The local West Marine will match Sailnets price plus shipping, $84.95, but thats almost double the cost of a couple of cams. So I'm keeping the Cams and can once again afford GROG for the cooler!

Edited by - on

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Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.