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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

traveler control solution

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Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Initially Posted - 02/10/2004 : 14:18:49

these look very promising to replace the stock transom cleats on our travelers
http://cgi.msn.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem& item=2459658282& category=31281

Edited by - on

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3321 Posts

Response Posted - 02/10/2004 : 16:00:04

Frank - I don't think they would work much better - you would still have the problem of adjusting the traveler behind you. A better idea is the mod I made on "TSU" (courtesy of a C22 friend) - Don L. can probably find the posted pics for you.
Derek

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 02/10/2004 : 16:12:09

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by fhopper@mac.com
 these look very promising to replace the stock transom cleats on our travelers
http://cgi.msn.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem& item=2459658282& category=31281
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

My old Venture had a standup swivel base with cam cleat for use with the mainsheet.

This one from BoatUS also looks like it would work for the traveller.

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 02/10/2004 : 20:49:28

don't all the travellers have jamb cleats like these? (look above the fish finder)

Can be adjusted while you're sailing without looking back.

Edited by - on

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3321 Posts

Response Posted - 02/10/2004 : 23:17:01

Jim - "TSU" came with metal cam cleats that were screwed directly into the transom. They were virtually impossible to use without skinning every knuckle...the sheet was about 1/2" off the transom. I think they were probably factory issue as I can't Imagine a PO being dumb enough to install that type.
Derek

Edited by - on

osmepneo
Past Commodore

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USA
1420 Posts

Response Posted - 02/11/2004 : 06:31:32

Back in the days when I was macho

and sailed a Thistle, I had a continuous traveller line, similar to the one Jim showed. Obviously, the challenge is to get the control forward, and that worked well for an aggressive boat like the Thistle, and would be great on c25's, too.

Edited by - on

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3321 Posts

Response Posted - 02/11/2004 : 11:49:49

I personally think that this one is neater and aesthetically more pleasing (also it doesn't create extra windage!

)

Derek

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OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 02/11/2004 : 14:33:05

I agree it would be nice to move the traveler control lines forward for the crew to manage - especially when racing so the skipper can focus on the course and other boats.

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osmepneo
Past Commodore

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USA
1420 Posts

Response Posted - 02/11/2004 : 15:11:51

osmepneo has a mid-boom traveller that is controlled just in from of the companionway. The one on the Thistle was similar to the one Derek showed, except that the two ends were "tied" making a continuous line. you could fasten or unfasten from the rail, and was very flexible.

The problem with the main-traveller osmepneo has is legs. When I want to adjust eith the mainsheet, or the traveller, I have to fight through two or three pairs of legs. That's because I haven't had crew that knew how to adjust and who were more interested in riding.

I'm thinking about returning the sustem to the original, and feeding the lines, in a continuous traveller control forward, like Derek's example.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 02/11/2004 : 15:44:08

I am still anxious to try what I did install

Edited by - Frank Hopper on 02/12/2004 10:40:15

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 02/11/2004 : 16:22:03

Derek –

I plan on implementing nearly the exact set up you have. I would however like to question the use of a fairlead to turn the corner along near the locker (back of knee level). If you had to do it again, would you switch that to another cheek block? Does the Fairlead wear away at the line? My idea was to use Harken 29 mm cheek blocks (4 per side) and switch to ¼ Marstron or endura braid or something close to that so that everything runs smoothly.

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 02/11/2004 : 16:23:03

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Frank - I am trying to figure out exactly what you did install there? Could you add a narrative

dw

Edited by - on

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3321 Posts

Response Posted - 02/11/2004 : 17:55:49

Duane - the small fairlead on each side (at the cockpit seat/cockpit junction) is there to keep the control line from rubbing on the seat. I wanted the first turning block as far outboard as possible (to maintain max range for the traveler) and a fairlead seemed the solution to lowering the friction. I also used 3/16" line and deliberately did NOT make it continuous - that would be a trip line waiting to happen!
Derek

Edited by - on

Kidless
1st Mate

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USA
26 Posts

Response Posted - 02/11/2004 : 19:50:52

I am just a newby but I don't understand why it is so important to have so much control of your traveler.
Don't you just set it and forget it?

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 02/11/2004 : 20:12:24

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Kidless
 I am just a newby but I don't understand why it is so important to have so much control of your traveler.
Don't you just set it and forget it?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Sailing is about many things; sailshape is one of the biggies if you want the boat to perform well. Sailshape on a mainsail can be very refined. A properly shaped main has a leech (back edge) that is not fluttering but is full and powerful. When you are new to sailing it is great to have tell tails on the leech of your main. It will show you whether you have full power all along the back edge of the sail. While the boom end is over the cockpit you exert the downward force that controls the leech shape with the traveler. If you have just the right amount of down haul on the boom you want to simply have that mainsheet block “travel” across the boat, maintaining the sailshape while you trim the pointing angle of the boat, (trying to sail closer to the wind). Our boats have very short travelers and they frustrate most of us a lot. Most frustrating is the very poor control line configuration that Catalina used.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 02/11/2004 : 20:23:25

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Duane Wolff
 [quote]Originally posted by fhopper@mac.com
 
Frank - I am trying to figure out exactly what you did install there? Could you add a narrative

dw
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I am sorry that it is not captioned.

The picture shows a temporary line holding the traveler car and the new blocks so they will not slide around while I hauled it to get my recent bottom job. That makes it look odd.
The line from the turning sheave in the traveler car runs to the small cheek block where it is turned 90 degrees and runs up to the new Splinlok pivoting clutches. The line enters the clutches from the bottom, turns 90 degrees on an internal sheave, it then exits out the front clutch opening. The clutch is a new mechanism that allows you to release with a simple snap up. I expect to be able to release the leeward clutch from the high side and haul it to windward all from the helm position. I have been trying to decide if it would turn out to be a continuous line setup or not. (And whether or not the entire rig works well or not.)

Edited by - on

Sea Trac
Master Marine Consultant

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Vanuatu
1357 Posts

Response Posted - 02/11/2004 : 22:04:45

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by fhopper@mac.com Our boats have very short travelers and they frustrate most of us a lot.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Definitely my second biggest grip; the first being the crappy won't-travel-car. I'd definitely like to build a boomkin to hang the backstay further out behind the transom and then raise and extend the traveler to run the full beam at just about stern pulpit rail height, that'd add some control. Although, it would probably look ridiculous on a 25' pocket cruiser.

So, guess I'll just content myself by replacing my won't-travel-car with a spiffy new snatch block.

Unless the replacement car from CD is cheaper.

Edited by - on

Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 02/11/2004 : 23:22:47

J.B. Manley,

Re: "...the crappy won't-travel-car..."

I rebuilt my stock Catalina traveler car with general purpose ballbearing sheaves. It now runs very smoothly on the round bar.

I used:

(2) Harken #277 "Micro" (bare sheave, 7/8"OD, 3/16"ID, 13/32"W),

(2) Harken #160 "Bullet" (bare sheave, 1-1/8"OD, 1/4"ID, 1/2"W),

(3) #10-24x1-1/2" machine screws with self locking nuts,

misc. flat washers, lock washers, etc. as needed to fit.

I ground the peened ends off the stock rivets and drove them out with a punch. Don't loose any tiny parts! The rivets were replaced with the #10 machine screws.

-- Leon Sisson

Edited by - on

Sea Trac
Master Marine Consultant

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Vanuatu
1357 Posts

Response Posted - 02/12/2004 : 08:17:43

You're absolutely the best, Leon! Thanks for another great plan.

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Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 02/12/2004 : 08:17:55

Derek,
Derek,

I am thinking of moving your first block from the traveler farther toward the rail, then putting a second block on the transom right at the intersection where your fairlead is, down to a third block near the cockpit sole etc… do you think that would work?

dw

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 02/12/2004 : 10:37:07

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Leon Sisson
 J.B. Manley,

Re: "...the crappy won't-travel-car..."

I rebuilt my stock Catalina traveler car with general purpose ballbearing sheaves. It now runs very smoothly on the round bar.

-- Leon Sisson
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Thanks Leon, they are on their way.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 02/12/2004 : 10:39:41

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Antares
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by fhopper@mac.com Our boats have very short travelers and they frustrate most of us a lot.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Definitely my second biggest grip; the first being the crappy won't-travel-car.

So, guess I'll just content myself by replacing my won't-travel-car with a spiffy new snatch block.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I have seen boats that were cheaper than some snatch blocks. Did my narrative help? Does my system look like it has a chance?

Edited by - on

Sea Trac
Master Marine Consultant

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Vanuatu
1357 Posts

Response Posted - 02/12/2004 : 11:31:59

Personally, I've not been bothered by the location of the cam cleats. Of course, that may be because I was busy being bothered by the short travel distance and the won't-travel-car. My lines are long enough so the leeward line lays forward in the cockpit seat two-thirds the length of the tiller. However, my preference is to cross-sheet and drive from weather, so with a traveller car that actually travels, I only need play the weather line. Anyway,

Frank, yes, your narrative did help. The one potential problem that I see with your system is the height of the cleat and how it's likely to reduce the leverage of the line "flick" upward when you're driving from a forward, seated position. Have you tested the cleat to ensure that you can release it from that position?

Edited by - on

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3321 Posts

Response Posted - 02/12/2004 : 12:27:42

Duane - if you move the block further outboard, you will not have the optimum angle for the line around the sheave (90 degrees) Apart from that (and the expense of 2 extra turning blocks) it should work. (I'm a cheapskate!!)
Derek

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 02/12/2004 : 15:50:45

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by fhopper@mac.com
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Kidless
 I am just a newby but I don't understand why it is so important to have so much control of your traveler.
Don't you just set it and forget it?

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
 . . . trying to sail closer to the wind . . . 
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

We have a pretty narrow section on our lake so pointing as high a possible can eliminate a tack or two - which can make all the difference when racing . . .

Edited by - on

mmac
Navigator

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USA
168 Posts

Response Posted - 02/13/2004 : 11:12:36

Kidless,

I recommed you find a copy of a book called
Sail Power by Wallace Ross. It was kind of a sail handling bible when I was new to this.

Edited by - mmac on 02/13/2004 11:15:45

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