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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

General Sailing Forum

What OB motor would you pick?

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seastream
Navigator

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USA
242 Posts

Initially Posted - 02/11/2004 : 20:33:11

I want to replace my 1986 Evinrude 9.9 'Yachtwin' OB. It's still reliable in that it starts with a pull or two, but the alternator and electric start have become 'part timers'. Also, it's a two stroke and I want a four stroke. I'm tired of mixing oil n gas. I thought of another 'Rude, then was recommended a Honda, then was told Merc. Since we're talking around $2500 motor and mount installed, I'm open to suggestions from all for consideration.

Bob

Seastream

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osmepneo
Past Commodore

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USA
1420 Posts

Response Posted - 02/11/2004 : 20:57:18

Lots, and lots of discussions on ob in the pages of our forum. It is always one of the hot button threads that everyone seems to have an opinion about.

I have a terrible experience with Honda 4 stroke, and wouldn't get another one, under any circumstances. If you research past threads you will my comments re. Hondas. It seems that people either love 'em or hate 'em, and I am one who hates them!

I am replacing mine with a Nissan 2 stroke, either 8 or 9.8 with electric start and 25 inch shaft (xls) high thrust model. Don't need that much power but really want xls, and those are the Nissan/Tohatsu 2 strokes that meet my parameters. 2 strokes work for me, because I burn at most 6 gallons a year.

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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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5908 Posts

Response Posted - 02/11/2004 : 20:59:30

The 4 cycles are nice in some ways, but, if you get a 4 cycle, you have to get a new motor mount, reinforce your transom, drill new holes and fill the old ones, and you will have a much heavier motor to carry, lift, mount and unmount. You'll save yourself a lot of grief, and have a simpler, cheaper, more reliable motor, if you are allowed to use a 2 cycle at your venue.

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ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 02/11/2004 : 21:18:09

My first choice would be the new model Yamaha 8 XLS (extra long shaft) with the power prop configuration. You could also hold off just a little while and see what the new Nissan 4-Stroke with the 25" shaft looks like.

Looks like you're already aware taht you will probably need to put a new heavy-duty Garelick mount on to carry the weight of any of the new 4-strokes... and put some good backing plates behind the bolts. (IMHO this is a good thing to do anyway)

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Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 02/11/2004 : 21:46:45

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by ClamBeach
 ...and put some good backing plates behind the bolts. (IMHO this is a good thing to do anyway)
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
And put one between the bracket and the transom, too. Starboard is the perfect material.

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seastream
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242 Posts

Response Posted - 02/11/2004 : 21:56:39

First, a quick apology for posting a motor question here...at least the question relates to hanging such motor on a C25!

I didn't know that 4stroke was heavier than 2stroke. Hmm...might have to rethink this....I think 2strokes these days have 'oil injection' , don't they? (must have an oil resevoir to keep filled, tho)

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Doug
Captain

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457 Posts

Response Posted - 02/11/2004 : 21:56:43

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">The 4 cycles are nice in some ways, but, if you get a 4 cycle, you have to get a new motor mount, reinforce your transom, drill new holes and fill the old ones, and you will have a much heavier motor to carry, lift, mount and unmount. You'll save yourself a lot of grief, and have a simpler, cheaper, more reliable motor, if you are allowed to use a 2 cycle at your venue.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I have some questions/ comments about this:
1. I walked around the marina the other day looked at mounts. Most of the 4 strokes I looked were mounted on older basic mounts. A lot of them on those old, skinny aluminum things that were junk with little 2 strokes.
2. My Honda 4 stroke as been hanging on the back of my boat since 1980. I use the tubular mount that's in the CD catalog, all though mine may not have the heavy duty adjuster arms and only has one spring. The only backing in the transom is a couple of 1" strips of 3/8 plywood under the bolts. After 20 years of 4 stroke use there is no damage to the mount or transom visible.
3. Dealer told me it wasn't the weight, it was the extra thrust that was the problem. All mounts still hang on the transom with the same 4 bolts. It's twisting and damage to the mount that's the problem. Dealer to me that the only mounts that really helped were the Merc mounts with a built in shock to absorb the thrust jolt.
4. 4 strokes are the right thing to do for the water and wind our boats need. Would I replace a good 2 stroke just for the enviornmental benefits? No, but if you're in the market for a new motor anyway then it's easy to do the right thing.

Having just bought a new , heavier motor with a huge high thrust prop I'm very intersted in seeing where the thread goes. The new mototr is in the garage until I figure out if I need to change mounts...

Edited by - on

Doug
Captain

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USA
457 Posts

Response Posted - 02/11/2004 : 21:58:28

Forgot to answer you question Bob. I too have very negative feelings about Honda. Loved my Yamaha 2 stroke, and I hope to love the Yamaha 4 stroke I just bought to replace the Honda.

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ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 02/11/2004 : 22:20:21

I have no doubts that the Garhauer mount is strong enough... but even the 85lb "classic" Honda is a pretty hefty lift from the bottom position of mount. Add some pitching and rolling into the picture and it gets heavier still.

If I had a new 120 lb outboard out on the mount, I'd for sure want a mount that gave me more lift assist. I think a lot more 'extreme duty' mounts will show up on the market as the new 'heavy' generation of 4-strokes takes over the market (wether we want it or not).

IMHO a lot of the 'best' gear choices will be driven by the age, condition, and competency of both the skipper and the crew.

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Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 02/11/2004 : 22:27:34

Bob,

I've owned maybe six to eight small outboards I've used on sailboats. (Exact numbers are hard to pin down, because I sometimes pick up basket case motors and combine parts.) That includes several of the older blue and white Honda B-100 & B-75 series 4-stroke twins, and a few misc. ancient 2-strokes. After two or three of the Hondas died sudden and spectacular deaths, my blind faith in Honda products began to falter. The new sleek silver colored models may be built better.

I now have a 10-year old Yamaha 9.9HP 4-stroke high thrust with electric start on my C-25. The Yamaha performs well, and only requires what I've come to think of as typical salt water outboard maintenance. Although it does sometimes stumble above low speed until warmed up. We've discussed that puzzle here, and concluded that it's likely an aging ignition black box (big $). Yamaha wasn't kidding about the "high thrust"; it has to be experienced to be believed!

I agree that getting a 4-stroke is the Right Thing to do. I wouldn't be in a hurry to buy the first production year of any model motor.

-- Leon Sisson

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eric.werkowitz
Captain

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USA
283 Posts

Response Posted - 02/11/2004 : 23:17:21

If I were to buy a new motor it would probably be the new light-weight Tohatsu (Nissan) 4-stroke with the soon-to-be-available 25 inch shaft. These are supposed to weigh 85 pounds, as I recall. I have a Yamaha 4-stroke on my boat now, hung from a tubular Garhaur bracket. I use a small line from the pulpet rail under the handle of the bracket to give me a 2-1 purchase for lifting the engine. It's a lot easier than pulling it up by the handle.

Eric Werkowitz
C25 #4969

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Gary B.
Admiral

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USA
969 Posts

Response Posted - 02/12/2004 : 02:54:30

it so depends upon your situation......little use/racing/long distance cruising/ currents and tides to push, etc. etc., but I LOVE my Yamaha 4 stroke 9.9. Heavy, but the Catalina dealer supplied mount (tubular upgrade from the flimsy original) has done the trick since about 1985 on my boat. I have had good luck with older Hondas, too, but none with the newer generation high thrust models. I have said before that I think my Yamaha will out-thrust anything out there.....

IMHO...listen to Leon. He has yet to post poor advice on this forum, to my way of thinking.....

Gary B.
Vice Commodore

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seastream
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USA
242 Posts

Response Posted - 02/12/2004 : 07:46:45

My Dads' CD 28 has a diesel so I'm not well acquainted with OB motors. I didn't know that the 4 strokes were that much heavier than 2 strokes. I've no wish to damage my boat. What's this 'Merc mount w/shock absorber' that Doug speaks of? By Mercury, only for Mercury? Or fits any?

My wife & I figure we're into this boat for about the next 10 years before we can purchase the new Catalina 30-32 dreamboat we want to cruise into the sunset on, unless something drastic (sinking

or lottery win

) happens before then. However in the next 3-4 years we hope to move her from secluded waters on Lake Winnipesaukee to more open waters at a marina in Portsmouth, NH to gain ocean (cruising) access. Then we'll want the longest shaft available to keep our eggbeater in the water and as much reserve thrust as practical, should we need it. Heck, I remember one especially windy (20-30 knots) afternoon that made lotsa chop on the lake...we had a tussle keeping our prop in the water then, and could only make headway by going directly into the wind.

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 02/12/2004 : 09:33:02

What OB motor would I pick?...Hmmmm...the last couple of outboards I've owned sort of picked me because they came with boats I bought.

My last boat had a 20 year old Johnson that ran flawlessly and now I have a Mercury that runs the same so I guess I got lucky!

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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5908 Posts

Response Posted - 02/12/2004 : 12:02:37

Seastream,

I'm all for technological advances, but, as I see it, the Hondas used to have a reliability problem and they were very heavy. From comments on the forum, the reliability problem may have been solved, but they are still a very heavy motor. (About 108 lbs. vs. 79 lbs for my Merc. 7.5 2 cycle)

Yamaha owners seem to like their 4 cycles very much, but they are still very heavy.

If the Tohatsu engine proves to be reliable, it might be the best choice, because it is only slightly heavier than a 2 cycle. (about 79 lbs. vs. about 85 lbs.)

When I say you have to replace your motor mount, you can always make do with the old one, but, as others have pointed out, the extra weight is too much for the springs that help you lift the motor out of the water, and many people have changed their mounts when they bought the 4 cycle, presumably because they felt a need for it.

To me, the weight of the motor is a big deal. Whenever I have to mount or remove the motor, it's a hard job, and it's even more so if the boat is in the water, when it's difficult to get a good foothold and good leverage, and you are off-balance. You can rig devices that will help, but the extra weight complicates the problem.

When you go to the 4 cycle, there are trade-offs. You have to consider the plusses (and there are many) and minuses, and decide for yourself.

If your existing motor is still reliable, you could always wait another year to see if the Tohatsus are proving to be reliable, and if they perform well in other respects.

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OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 02/12/2004 : 15:05:49

I'm a long-time Honda products owner and was going to purchase their outboard but was discouraged by my marina neighbors - based on their knowledge of other Honda owners experiences. My 9.9 Yamaha 4-stroke had been flawless.

As for brackets, I went with one that was designed for 4-strokes from the get go - manufactured by OMC, now Bombardier. Absolutely no sense of the bracket being overloaded and wife can raise the motor with two fingers.

As for weight, there are always other sailors around to assist with mounting and unmounting the motor.

When I bought my boat, it had a 2-stroke 15 HP Mariner on it. My transom was already very bowed before I bought the Yamaha. In my opinion the C25 transom simply wasn't designed for this much weight and torque so I had it professionally reinforced with fiberglass.

Absolutely no issues since . . .

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