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stepping mast on c25

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barmstro
1st Mate

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34 Posts

Initially Posted - 02/13/2004 : 01:56:48

Hi I'm thinking of moving up from a c22 to a c25 and was wondering how hard it is to launch and step the mast? and can it be done single handed?

Bob Armstrong 1979 c25 SK/SR #1119 GoodTide'ngs II
Federal way Wa.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 02/13/2004 : 07:21:11

There are two systems that help a single hander step his mast, one is a gin pole that does not provide the lateral suport needed to make it a stress free event and the other is the A-Frame which by all accounts is a slam dunk and allows a single hander to route the hoisting line a number of places. In my mind I see the mainsheet shackled to teh stem fitting and me standing on the cabin-top facing the bow, hauling on the line. Most of us have someting called a mast-up (available from catalinadirect.com, you can see two of them holding my mast up in my sig picture. With the sterm mast-up exstended you have the first critical degrees of lift overcome and cand successfully hoist the mast up with a purchase from there. If you search the site you will find pictures and a lot of disscussion on this topic. I applaud your desire to be self sufficient, an amazing number of 25 owners are paying professionals to step their masts... it is beyond me. In my experience there are always people willing to help another sailor.

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ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 02/13/2004 : 09:58:56

Based on my experience with a Venture 23 (similar to the C22) and my current C25... Yes. it's a bit harder to get the C25 mast up due to the extra weight... but really not much. Basically it's the same deal, with the extra few feet and mass of the mast of adding a bit of weight and leverage.

My usual method is to have two people involved. A temporary line is attached to the jib halyard and run through a snatch block attached to the pulpit and back to the main winch.

One (the stronger) starts the mast up and steadies it. The second person takes up the slack on the main winch and then starts cranking as needed. The main problem (danger) is controlling the 'side-to-side' sway of the mast.

Temporary side stays (I use motorcycle tie-downs) or the "A-frame" design posted elsewhere on this forum controls sway and the A-frame provides extra lift... enables single-handed mast raising.

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JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 02/13/2004 : 10:24:09

Check out this link....shows the A frame, mast crutch, everthing you need.

http://www.indiscipline.org/cat25/launch.html

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JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 02/13/2004 : 10:25:54

PS. Note while Gary is raising the mast with one finger, I am cranking the winch that pulls the boat onto the trailer. This winch is connected to the A frame. The mast and A frame (which is bolted to the forward spreader base) rotate upward as a unit.

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Kidless
1st Mate

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USA
26 Posts

Response Posted - 02/13/2004 : 10:35:22

My wife and I trailer our c25 on all our excersions.
I can step our mast solo without any trouble but I prefer to have her help by pulling on the main uphaul out in front of the boat while its on the trailer. Make sure you tie the uphaul shackel to one of your mast cleats. Solo you can loop the uphaul through you jib downhaul pulley and back to you at the base of the mast once the mast is up lean against it while you tighten and secure the uphaul then go forward to pin the forestay. I don't recommend this in a windy condition. Also, when you first lift the mast off the deck go as far stern as possible and walk your hands down the mast as you raise it and then step up onto the cabin lid to finish raising it. This will take most of the up force off the mast step and keep it from stripping the screws as it was designed for down force not up. I have had to rebuild my mast step from the previous owners tecnique.
One person holding and pulling on the uphaul out in front of the boat realy helps the weight issue. Make sure all your stay turn buckles are pointed up towards the cabin or they will hang up on the way up, they will streighten themselves but it bends them and could comprimize their trength.
I hope this helps,

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Kidless
1st Mate

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USA
26 Posts

Response Posted - 02/13/2004 : 10:44:29

Nice A frame, I like your page too.
I,m heading that way for stepping. I have a gin pole but I still have to guide the mast up to keep it from falling to the side so it is still a two man job and easier to just pick it up by hand, When I install my furler I think the weight will be an issue and I will have to go with the A frame.

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Jack Heaston
1st Mate

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48 Posts

Response Posted - 02/13/2004 : 16:08:42

I am also wrestling with how to get the mast up and down solo with the boat in the water. I am new to the C25 after having larger boats and now going back to something trailerable.
The A-frame pictured would seem to reduce, but not eliminate, the sideways movement of the mast as it is going up or down. I had not considered the upward force on the mast step plate, without a gin pole to exert downward pressure, until the mast was far enough up to contribute to the downward moment. I am grateful for this insight.
My plan was to use an 8' 2x4 for the gin pole, with throughbolted eyes on top and deeply slotted metal tangs to fit over the mast bolt on the bottom. I have been thinking about using another 8' 2x4 horizontally mounted with "L" shaped notched brackets that would slip down over the mast bolt outboard of the gin pole brackets forward to steady the side-to-side motion. My idea was to secure the ends of this 2x4 down to moveable cleats on the genoa track and to use throughbolted eyes on the ends lead to a pair of lines hauled up to the top of the back of the mast using the main halyard. The eyes would be placed such that they would be in line with the mast bolt and thus prevent (or at least limit) the sideways motion potential. I would prefer to lead this pair of lines to the spreaders to increase the angle between the mast and the end of the 2x4, but haven't figured a way to retrieve them and would rather not sail with them led down and secured to a fitting on the aft shrouds. However, this is my fallback, if the angle from the end of the 2x4 to the masthead is too small to effectively stop the sideways motion. Had also considered installing a pair of eyes that I could reach about 8' up the mast that could be used to secure the side guys, but worried that this would not provide adequate leverage to prevent sideways motion and the force on the eyes could be quite large.
I had thought that using the mainsheet tackle secured to the forward eye on the gin pole and run through a turning block at the stem, or a short bridle to the mooring cleats, could then be led aft to one of the self-tailing primary winches via the genoa sheet cars. I agree with the notion that the mast should initially be raised a far as possible by hand and had figured on using yet another 2x4 in the cockpit secured to the aft pulpit, since the rudder fittings would not be available for that purpose the way I would launch and recover the boat. There would be a 5" v-roller on top of the 2x4 that would allow the mast to be rolled backwards from the pulpit until it could be secured at the mast step.
With the jib halyard secured to the aft facing eye on the gin pole and made fast to a cleat on the mast, the rig would be ready to raise. All of the shroud turnbuckle studs on my boat have been bent by POs raising the mast and I very much appreciate the idea of using bungee cords to keep the turnbuckles in the upright position. That would not have occurred to me.
I am hopeful that by then cranking the winch the mast can be raised with only one person, using care that none of the stuff attached to the mast is fouled on its way up. I'm not sure if it will be necessary to back off the aft lower shrouds to get the forestay pinned at the stem fitting? I am anticipating that sorting through the cobbled up split backstay arrangement will be no picnic?
Unstepping the mast would be the reverse of this procedure.
The A-frame idea is certainly appealing and a lot less complicated than what I have in mind. However I am nervous about sideways movement and the lifting moment on the mast step. I would sure like to be wrong about this.
Any comments would certainly be appreciated
Best regards,
Jack

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 02/13/2004 : 16:33:37

Welcome aboard Captain Jack.
Whew! Your going to be fun aren’t you! Isn’t it great to be able to say what you have said and have people actually know what you are talking about?
I still muscle my mast up with help so I will leave the various pros and cons of the systems to others who use them. You may want to look at a 250. They have t-bolt slots on the mast, half way up to their spreaders, for temporary shrouds that help their masts stay in plumb as they raise them, kind of a soft A-frame. It would be very easy to install those on our masts. As for the aft shrouds, I am of the school that leaves them very loose to allow for better mast bend shaping, so my aft lowers keep my mast from falling forward while it is being raised but they do not hinder connecting the forestay.

Edited by - Frank Hopper on 02/13/2004 16:37:42

Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1916 Posts

Response Posted - 02/13/2004 : 17:16:49

After mastering the single handed stepping of a tall rig mast with an A frame, now I have added the extra degree of difficulty of having a furler. I have also installed rope clutches on the cabin top, so it should be easier to stop in mid position to detangle lines or stays. I do prefer having an extra hand though.

But, we C25 folks eat challenge for breakfast

Edited by - on

Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1916 Posts

Response Posted - 02/13/2004 : 17:21:17

I forgot to mention one other thing which makes rigging easier. I installed the adjustable backstay from Catalina Direct, and let it out when rigging, then it is easier to hook up your forestay, then go back to tension the backstay.

I think I'll go eat another bowl of challenge

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Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 02/13/2004 : 19:02:52

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Gloss
 I forgot to mention one other thing which makes rigging easier. I installed the adjustable backstay from Catalina Direct, and let it out when rigging, then it is easier to hook up your forestay, then go back to tension the backstay.

I think I'll go eat another bowl of challenge
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
One of the sneakiest traps is the adjustable backstay during a mast raising. It has double the opportunity to catch on something and if the adjuster car is not at the top it will shorten the backstay making it nearly impossible to fasten your forestay. I use a spilt backstay and adjuster, I tie the adjuster car to the top before I raise the mast.

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Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1916 Posts

Response Posted - 02/13/2004 : 19:34:33

The Catalalina Direct adjustable backstay does not have an "adjuster car"
that's why I like it so much

In case you don't have their Catalina 25 manual I'll try to describe it.

What you have is a very heavy duty cable going from one of the split backstay tangs up and through a pully which is attached to the back of the backstay, and then down to a 4 part pully system, which is basically a boom vang setup. This gives you an 8 to one advantage. Nothing hangs up and you have lots of adjustability.
I liked the setup they made for the Catalina 22 better, as it had a 12 toone advantage. Lowell said that to get that, the blocks would have been too large and expensive for the 25.

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Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 02/13/2004 : 23:30:36

Frank, I am familiar with that system, it seems to be the best.

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barmstro
1st Mate

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34 Posts

Response Posted - 02/14/2004 : 04:43:27

Thanks for all the info on stepping the mast for the c25. I just put a split back stay similar to catalina directs on my c22 and it makes a tremdous differnce attaching the forestay and forward shrouds. I/m going to Portland Or. on monday to check out a c25. Your group sounds like a great group. hope to join u soon. Bob

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Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1916 Posts

Response Posted - 02/14/2004 : 06:33:13

Hey Bob,
Yes, by all means, come join us.

We play well with others

I am enjoying my Catalina 25 a whole bunch more than my 22.

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 02/14/2004 : 11:42:38

I've never used the A-frame to raise and lower the mast so I can't say from direct experience about how the mast behaves while using one, but I remember someone posting pictures (Buzz?) to illustrate the relative stability when using the A-frame system by showing how you can pause in mid-raise during the hoist.

The side-to-side instability of the mast starts to lessen the higher the mast is hoisted with the greatest amount of instability being from 0 degrees to about 50 degrees. When raising the mast, I use a crutch that puts it at about 25-30 degrees to start so my instability range is reduced to about 20 or so degrees. When I start hoisting, I try to do it carefully, yet quickly, so my mast doesn't have the time to sway side-to-side.

So far, so good!

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Buzz Maring
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1772 Posts

Response Posted - 02/14/2004 : 12:30:31

I've never used the A-frame to raise and lower the mast so I can't say from direct experience about how the mast behaves while using one, but I remember someone posting pictures (Buzz?) to illustrate the relative stability when using the A-frame system by showing how you can pause in mid-raise during the hoist. - Don

Yep, you're right, Don ... I posted a bunch of photos in another thread. Since I had already responded to this topic when "barmstro" posted it in the Test Forum, I wasn't going to respond again in this one. Now that I've thought about it, there might be some others who are following this thread who would like to take a look at the link I posted ... so, here it is again, a link to this topic when we discussed it several months ago: [url="http://www.catalina25-250.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3633&SearchTerms=mast"]Mast raising[/url]

I'm a big believer in this system ... try it, you'll like it.

Edited by - on

Captain B
1st Mate

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USA
88 Posts

Response Posted - 02/14/2004 : 13:00:48

I built an "A" frame a couple of weeks ago for about $10. It took just a couple of hours to build and is very easy to install. I used it to single handedly lower my mast while the boat was in the water. After completing some mast maintenance, I then raised the mast solo. This is a great device well worth you time and $s.

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Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 02/14/2004 : 13:59:39

I may build one to use here in the driveway, there are fewer able helpers at home than at the lake.

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Scotd
Navigator

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USA
136 Posts

Response Posted - 02/14/2004 : 15:23:31

This is all great information, I have not had a chance to step my mast yet. I think I am going to when it starts to warm up a bit, things seem to break to easy when the temps are below 30.

Come on Spring!!!!!!! I am getting cabin fever .... This is not good ... My wife is going to kill me!! I took out my sails in the living room today and spread them out..... I just wanted to look at them again.... the big red C 25.

Happy Valentines

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Scotd
Navigator

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USA
136 Posts

Response Posted - 02/14/2004 : 15:24:34

LOL

Edited by - Scotd on 02/14/2004 15:48:17

Jack Heaston
1st Mate

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48 Posts

Response Posted - 02/14/2004 : 20:10:56

To everyone that responded, this has been very interesting and helpful, especially the link back to last May's discussion.
Thanks
Jack

Edited by - on

lcharlot
Master Marine Consultant

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Antigua and Barbuda
1301 Posts

Response Posted - 02/15/2004 : 15:11:32

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by fhopper@mac.com
 Most of us have someting called a mast-up (available from catalinadirect.com,
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Be careful when using a mast-up. They can apply a LOT of force on the gudgeons, especially when extended and when you are sliding the mast forward or aft and something gets caught, or you are pushing too hard. I have heard of one incident where a mast-up actually broke the upper gudgeon on a Catalina 22. I had a mast-up for my '86 C-22 several years back, and always braced it with two diagonal lines down to the lifeline stanchions, so that unusual loads on the mast couldn't cause it to bend way out of vertical, which would overstress the gudgeons.

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