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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Diesel Engine on C25

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nate
Navigator

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240 Posts

Initially Posted - 02/29/2004 : 20:36:22

I'm going with a buddy this week to look at a C25 that has a diesel engine. He wanted me along since I own a C25 and will be able to help him tell what kind of shape the boat is in.
I'm aware that a few C25s came equiped with the inboard diesel but know little about the set-up or any potential pitfalls associated with this configuration. Anything specific that we should be looking for? Good or bad..........

Nate Adams
C25 #5695 WK/SR/Trad
"Heeling Properties"

Edited by - on

Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 02/29/2004 : 20:54:24

Nate,

Since very few C-25s have inboards you might get more authoritative responses over on [url="http://www.cs-bb.com/forums/CSBB/index.cgi/"]CS-BB[/url] or [url="http://forum.cruisingworld.com/forums/genlmesg/"]CWBB[/url].

Having said that, my limited experience with diesels in small sailboats is that engine access is traditionally poor, diesel repairs are traditionally expensive, and diesel powered boats traditionally smell like diesel fuel. But other than that, it's a great feature

, especially for cruising! When I was C-25 shopping, I tried to buy one with an inboard, but wasn't able to do business with the seller.

-- Leon Sisson

Edited by - on

pwhallon
Admiral

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USA
694 Posts

Response Posted - 02/29/2004 : 21:36:33

Hi nate,

Yep, Leon is right on the money.

My 86 diesel smelled horribly. You had to be a contortionist to work on it.......especially the port side.

It was loud as hell too. Bang bang bang bang clonk clonk clonk.

On the bright side though, it was very fuel efficient.

If the engine has low hours, low smell, and is clean, I beleive it would be worth considering.

PW

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 02/29/2004 : 21:49:55

There is an occasional poster on this site from my club, he has one and loves it. The boat sure looks pretty without an OB on the transom.

Edited by - on

lcharlot
Master Marine Consultant

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Antigua and Barbuda
1301 Posts

Response Posted - 02/29/2004 : 22:20:41

Be sure you have a surveyor you trust look at this boat. If you buy it and it turns out that the engine or transmission are in shaky condition, you could be faced with a HUGE repair or replacement bill, possibly more than the blue book value of the whole boat! Even if the engine is good, repair and maintenance isn't easy, especially if you are tall, or on the "hefty" side. Access to the engine, transmission, and shaft seal on the Catalina 25 isn't easy like it is on the Catalina 30.

However, if you will use the boat in waters that get choppy when the wind blows up, the inboard diesel is much better than an outboard as the prop will stay in the water instead of lifting clear and racing the engine on every wave. One other problem with diesel engines on boats is you have to monitor the condition of the fuel and fuel tank to make sure that water hasn't gotten in there and contaminated the fuel. Certain kinds of bacteria and algae can actually grow in this water, causing your fuel filters or injectors to clog and perhaps stalling the engine at the worst possible time, like when you are trying to get home in bad weather.

Edited by - lcharlot on 02/29/2004 22:22:08

smp817
1st Mate

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USA
30 Posts

Response Posted - 03/08/2004 : 11:39:31

I've got an '89 with an inboard diesel and have had no problems with it in the two years I've had it. No smell to speak of, but you're right about it being loud and noisey. Servicing is a pain, due to the tightness of the compartment. But, I just like the big-boat feel and looks of having it.
Steve Perry
'89 Catalina 25 "Love & Luck"

Edited by - on

Douglas
Master Marine Consultant

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1595 Posts

Response Posted - 03/09/2004 : 01:27:20

I have a two cylender Yanmar on Triska. If your going to purchase this boat I recomend you get an engine survey. If indeed it is a Yanmar I have the entire overhaul set for the 1GM 2GM and 3GM. If the owner is a good boat person he should have a log of all the engines maintenance. Oil changed every 50 hours etc. If you do get an engine survey be there when its done.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5913 Posts

Response Posted - 03/09/2004 : 09:27:50

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> If you buy it and it turns out that the engine or transmission are in shaky condition, you could be faced with a HUGE repair or replacement bill, possibly more than the blue book value of the whole boat!<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"> Diesels are very reliable, and it's challenging and fun to learn to maneuver a boat with a fixed prop. If properly maintained, a diesel engine should last a long time (as much as 3000-4000 hrs.). If it becomes uneconomical to repair the inboard motor on a small boat, however, the practical solution is to pull out the motor and discard it, fill the hole, and stick a motor mount and outboard on the transom.

Edited by - Steve Milby on 03/09/2004 09:31:06

Shelby
Navigator

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USA
155 Posts

Response Posted - 03/09/2004 : 11:30:28

I can't speak for the diesel inboard, but my C25 still has a volvo gas inboard. I had all kinds of problems with it (parts, access etc). So I finally got fed up an purchased an outboard. To tell you the truth, when it did work I liked the way the boat handled with that engine, as well as the look with out the ob on the transom. I guess I still have it with hopes of someday putting another engine in there (costs about 6k).

Edited by - on

Shelby
Navigator

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USA
155 Posts

Response Posted - 03/09/2004 : 11:36:19

Some Pictures of the gas inboard engine.

Edited by - on

Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 03/09/2004 : 12:30:23

Shelby,

What you've got there is an old Honda 2-cylinder, 4-stroke outboard powerhead (maybe 10HP model B100?) on some sort of "saildrive" lower unit, which may be just a modified Honda outboard oil sump and foot assembly. (Got any pictures of the lower unit out of the water?) They aren't bad engines if you keep changing the oil frequently before they can develop any internal wear, and don't rev it up in the first 30 seconds after starting.

That thing should be very easy to troubleshoot and fix. No way should it cost anywhere near $6,000 to replace. If you tell us what it does or doesn't do, there's a chance we can talk you through getting it going again.

-- Leon Sisson

Edited by - on

cat30
1st Mate

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73 Posts

Response Posted - 03/09/2004 : 13:26:59

Actually there is a replacement saildrive out there- might use a volvo or honda engine can't recall- cost about $6,000, a buddy of mine had a cracked head (motor) and was looking for a used one because the new one cost too much.

Edited by - on

Shelby
Navigator

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USA
155 Posts

Response Posted - 03/09/2004 : 17:53:28

Leon, actually the engine in the boat is a Volvo Penta MB2 50S. I think it is a 10hp. The only thing on the engine that is honda is the belt you can see in the picture. Although, I think Honda did have something to do with this engine. The link below will take you to the replacement saildrive. At this point I have a new Honda 9.9 sitting on the transom. But who knows, if I get a little time I might try to work on the Volvo again.

http://www.saildrive280.com/

Edited by - on

Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 03/10/2004 : 20:16:39

Shelby,

Here's a picture of a 10HP 2-cylinder 4-stroke Honda model B100L outboard I have sitting in my shop. It's one of about five B-75/B100 Honda outboards I've owned over the past 15 years.

Here are two pictures of that same motor with the cowl off.

Look familiar?

-- Leon Sisson

Edited by - on

Kip C
Navigator

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USA
243 Posts

Response Posted - 03/10/2004 : 22:25:36

I have an inboard diesel also. (westerbeke 12m) Like the others have said, it is a little noisy, but other than that, I love It! The boat does have an ever-so -slight smell about it, that to me, is heavenly...to my wife, not so heavenly. We store our cushions in our utility room and they have that slight smell, and everytime I'm in there near the cushions, it's like being on the boat.
For those interested there's a 10hp diesel on ebay : http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2466045461&category=26433

Edited by - on

Sea Trac
Master Marine Consultant

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Vanuatu
1357 Posts

Response Posted - 03/10/2004 : 22:40:54

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Kip C
 For those interested there's a 10hp diesel on ebay<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
They painted the flywheel, pulleys and alternator?

P.s. I love the smell of diesel engines, too.

Edited by - Sea Trac on 03/10/2004 22:42:02

oldsalt
Admiral

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USA
578 Posts

Response Posted - 03/11/2004 : 22:21:31

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Antares
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Kip C
 For those interested there's a 10hp diesel on ebay<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
They painted the flywheel, pulleys and alternator?

P.s. I love the smell of diesel engines, too.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

And part of the oil filter and some of the wiring harness cover......."overhaul in a can".

Edited by - on

Stu Jackson C34
Admiral

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844 Posts

Response Posted - 03/14/2004 : 15:29:58

There is really NO reason whatsoever to have a diesel "smell" with a diesel engine. It should be considered unacceptable.

We have no smell from our diesel engine. Those folks we know who do always have leaks, primarily from sloppiness in fuel lines with rotting clamps.

An inboard diesel engine can be a joy, Even if you have to be a contortionist to work on it.

Stu

Edited by - on

Shelby
Navigator

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USA
155 Posts

Response Posted - 03/14/2004 : 16:46:06

Thanks Leon,

Those pictures do look like the engine I have. Any idea on if Honda provided Volvo with this engine or not?

Edited by - on

Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 03/14/2004 : 19:48:56

Shelby,<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Any idea on if Honda provided Volvo with this engine or not?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Without having actually asked either Honda or Volvo, I'm as certain as I can be in saying the engine in your photos is the same powerhead as the one in my photos. The obvious differences would be things like whether you have an electric starter (which was optional on the outboard version), remote throttle & shifter controls, fuel line and wiring harness connections, oil pressure readout, that sort of thing.

I hope you are now encouraged that fixing your "Volvo" inboard is exactly as easy and inexpensive as doing the equivalent work on an old 10HP Honda outboard

... except for the crawling contortionist part vs. the risk of dropping tools and parts overboard!

-- Leon Sisson

Edited by - on

judy
Deckhand

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United Kingdom
3 Posts

Response Posted - 04/05/2004 : 10:19:22

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Leon Sisson
 Shelby,

Here's a picture of a 10HP 2-cylinder 4-stroke Honda model B100L outboard I have sitting in my shop. It's one of about five B-75/B100 Honda outboards I've owned over the past 15 years.

Here are two pictures of that same motor with the cowl off.

Look familiar?

-- Leon Sisson

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Edited by - on

judy
Deckhand

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United Kingdom
3 Posts

Response Posted - 04/05/2004 : 10:23:07

Here's a picture of a 10HP 2-cylinder 4-stroke Honda model B100L outboard I have sitting in my shop.
This is a request for help! Could you tell me the approximate year of manufacture of this outboard? Is it, as I suspect, pre 1976? If so, do you know of any service manual? I have the Clymer Shop Manual. Is there a near equivalent for practical purposes in this? I would be extremely grateful for your quick reply.

Cheers!

Look familiar?

-- Leon Sisson

[/quote]

Edited by - on

judy
Deckhand

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United Kingdom
3 Posts

Response Posted - 04/05/2004 : 10:23:15

Look familiar?

-- Leon Sisson

[/quote]

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 04/05/2004 : 15:24:40

Judy,

The serial number will allow you determine the year . . . I did a brief search for a service manual published by Honda and didn't see any . . . as you have probably already retired for the evening here's a link to Honda/UK for assistance including telephone numbers.

http://www.honda.co.uk/marine/

pip pip

Edited by - on

Sea Trac
Master Marine Consultant

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Vanuatu
1357 Posts

Response Posted - 04/07/2004 : 16:08:59

Welcome to the forum, Nenad! There is no need to apologize, you did very well. Unfortunately, I can not help with your outboard question. Do you have a Catalina 25 or 250? Again, welcome.

Edited by - on

Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 04/07/2004 : 21:15:42

Nenad Tuskanac,<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">... Honda model B-75 outboard and I have a problem with electricity because it have not spark and can’t start. So if anybody knows where I can found needed parts ...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I believe the Honda B-75 engines were available with either points&condenser ignition, or breakerless electronic ignition. If we are to help you trouble shoot yours from a distance, it would help greatly to know which type of ignition system your engine has.

Here's a quick way to tell. Remove the rubber cover on top of the cam pulley. Look through the hole in the cam pulley while slowly turning the flywheel. If you see traditional breaker contacts and a points cam, well, that's what you've got. If instead you see a small black box and no cam, then you've got the breakerless electronic ignition.

Do you have a service manual for your engine? Are you familiar with trouble shooting magneto ignition systems?

-- Leon Sisson

Edited by - on

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